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HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

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MarkovsKnee said:
Not really. If other teams are getting better than that means other teams are getting worse.

We didn't do a full tear down & neither did Toronto. It works better.

Buffalo & Ottawa have also had poor management to f*** things up for that long.
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All teams try to improve/change their team for the better. What I am trying to say is that if your team looks like it is improving (lets say by 10% just as a number to use) by getting different players and what not, but other teams are improving by 15%, then you haven't really improved relative to the other teams. In that sense, even though it may show the illusion that your team is getting better, it isn't, it is actually getting worse relative to other teams.

For example, at the start of the season, people were saying Detroit is much better, Buffalo is getting stronger, and Ottawa looks like they will compete. Yeah, they all have sort of improved, but where are they? In the same place they were last year because they haven't improved relative to the other teams. One reason for that can be poor management.

I'm also not saying that you have to hit bottom to improve, just that you have to improve more relative to others but to do that with poor pick levels requires you to also be better than your peers in some areas. To use your example of Toronto, the advantage they have to stay "improved" is that they have a virtual unlimited amount of money which can be used to cover mistakes, they also have good management that can draft really well, they have a good player development system, and can attract and not overpay free agents.

That's all just a long winded way of saying your improvements have to be more than other teams improvements to have any effect, If all else is the equal and all you have is draft picks, then when all you do is get is middle level average picks and no stars, you then stay average.
 
Sorinth said:
Except we've seen that the bolded mostly isn't true. Teams like Ottawa, Buffalo and many more are often getting higher picks and better prospects relative to other teams yet they stay in the basement year after year.

It's true we might leave the rebuild without enough star power to become an immediate contender but the same is true for pretty much every cup winning tank team. Tampa tanked and got Stamkos and Hedman but on paper that's not enough they needed the unkown/unexpected prospects like Kucherov and Point to turn into stars for the rebuild to become a success story instead of a failure. And the same goes for every other tank team, they leave their rebuild with plenty of holes and unknowns, it's only years later when you see that you find out whether you have the star power or not.

And on top of that, leaving the rebuild and ending up in the dead zone/no-mans land isn't even a problem. Tampa did that and yet a few years later had a 3rd overall pick anyways, same with Colorado who then got Makar at 4th. And we've seen it ourselves, we've never properly tanked before Hughes became GM yet in a 20 year period we still ended up with 10th, 5th, 3rd, 9th, 3rd and 1st. Becoming a bubble team doesn't mean you won't get another chance at a top pick, especially since the more recent lottery rules in place. What matters is that you make the most of those top picks when they do show up, we did that with Price but not with the others (Slaf obviously being too early to tell).
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The bolded is not an original idea from me, it is from several sports articles from The Economist a few years ago.
 
Zilo44 said:
Yotes will have to fire Tourigny at some point right ?
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Nah, they're tanking. They're not expected to be good. There was a pretty funny moment in the game though. Macelli passed back to the point & shouted out, what the f***?! Because no one was there.

PBP guy: Macelli is getting a little frustrated because there was no one at the point (pause) again. Lol
 
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RealityBytes said:
All teams try to improve/change their team for the better. What I am trying to say is that if your team looks like it is improving (lets say by 10% just as a number to use) by getting different players and what not, but other teams are improving by 15%, then you haven't really improved relative to the other teams. In that sense, even though it may show the illusion that your team is getting better, it isn't, it is actually getting worse relative to other teams.

For example, at the start of the season, people were saying Detroit is much better, Buffalo is getting stronger, and Ottawa looks like they will compete. Yeah, they all have sort of improved, but where are they? In the same place they were last year because they haven't improved relative to the other teams. One reason for that can be poor management.

I'm also not saying that you have to hit bottom to improve, just that you have to improve more relative to others but to do that with poor pick levels requires you to also be better than your peers in some areas. To use your example of Toronto, the advantage they have to stay "improved" is that they have a virtual unlimited amount of money which can be used to cover mistakes, they also have good management that can draft really well, they have a good player development system, and can attract and not overpay free agents.

That's all just a long winded way of saying your improvements have to be more than other teams improvements to have any effect, If all else is the equal and all you have is draft picks, then when all you do is get is middle level average picks and no stars, you then stay average.
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No shit, dude. That's the whole f***ing point of building.
 
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Scintillating10 said:
Tampa not a lock to make playoffs. Detroit only a point back with 2 games in hand. I hope Florida has similar fall from grace next year.
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It's going to be interesting to see what happens with their pending ufa's. But I suspect they'll be fine. Reinhart is having a great year, but Montour isn't.

At this point I'm really hoping Calgary's pick is not top 10 amd as close to 11th as possible, because I really think Florida makes the playoffs next year. But we'll see. If Florida manages to miss the playoffs, we could hit the jackpot - though Calgary have been playing well lately and with good moves in the offseason, could surprise next year.
 
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MarkovsKnee said:
Oh, and Arizona's next game is against Toronto Wednesday. I'm sure they'll find some ECHL goalie for that game too. They're definitely tanking for Celebrini now. I don't expect they'll pass us.
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I doubt they’re even tanking for anybody. There is no future planning. They may lose the whole team to someone else.

Scintillating10 said:
Tampa not a lock to make playoffs. Detroit only a point back with 2 games in hand. I hope Florida has similar fall from grace next year.
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Tampa should start to feel desperate after these last few losses. Savard should start to look real good
 
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Best case scenario is both Ottawa and Arizona pass us and Sabres find a way to stay ahead of us. Hawks sharks and ducks have bottom 3 locked up, Blue Jackets probably have 4th last.
 
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SwiftyHab said:
I doubt they’re even tanking for anybody. There is no future planning. They may lose the whole team to someone else.


Tampa should start to feel desperate after these last few losses. Savard should start to look real good
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They're actually well set on RD. They need LD.
 
Bolts aren’t a good trading partner cause they have nothing to trade and they know a retool is coming.
 
CDN24 said:
Best case scenario is both Ottawa and Arizona pass us and Sabres find a way to stay ahead of us. Hawks sharks and ducks have bottom 3 locked up, Blue Jackets probably have 4th last.
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Yeah doesn't look like we can do much better than 5th overall this year
BUT that's perfectly fine for this year compared to last year

Last year you just had to be in that top 4
But this year some D's can very well slide a couple if these Forwards down RIGHT to us for a change
And we deserve it FFS lol
 
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