HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[LaP]

Kinda like the reasoning that "drafting the right guys" is all it takes... Ignoring the role that coaching, culture & communication play in setting prospects up for success

Tanking for the sake of acquiring highly rated prospects is not sufficient to build a contender. Buffalo is a very good example of this... Akin to "building via the draft" while not adding any 1st round picks over a decade of that stated approach.

Fortunately we've got a leadership group in place that seem to grasp the big picture, and are methodically putting the various pieces in place to build a culture of excellence with an emphasis on adding & nurturing elite talent.

Future is bright

Obviously it plays a role but usually the culture will be set by the guys you draft. The culture in Pittsburg was set by Crosby and Malkin. The Culture in Washington was set by Ovechkin. The culture in Edmonton is slowly set by McJesus and Draisatl. The culture in Colorado was set by BigMac. Culture in LA was set by Kopitar and Doughty. TB by Hedman, Stamkos and Kuch.

There's a few exceptions like Panarin in NYR and Chara in Boston but most of the time if the kids you draft are not good enough to set a culture then you wont go anywhere and signing a bunch of vets like Giroux wont change that. Dahlin, Power, Savoie, Cozens, Mittelsstadt, Quinn are the ones who will need to figure it out in the upcoming years in Buffalo. Anyone who think those guys can't make the playoffs because of some sort of culture BS is delusional imo. They can't make it cause they are not good enough yet. If they would all be worthy of the rank they have been drafted the team would make the playoffs easily.

 

[Miller Time]

Obviously it plays a role but usually the culture will be set by the guys you draft. The culture in Pittsburg was set by Crosby and Malkin. The Culture in Washington was set by Ovechkin. The culture in Edmonton is slowly set by McJesus and Draisatl. The culture in Colorado was set by BigMac. Culture in LA was set by Kopitar and Doughty. TB by Hedman, Stankos and Kuch.

There's a few exceptions like Panarin in NYR and Chara in Boston but most of the time if the kids you draft are not good enough to set a culture then you wont go anywhere and signing a bunch of vets like Giroux wont change that. Dahlin, Power, Savoie, Cozens, Mittelsstadt, Quinn are the ones who will need to figure it out in the upcoming years in Buffalo. Anyone who think those guys can't make the playoffs because of some sort of culture BS is delusional imo. They can't make it cause they are not good enough yet. If they would all be worthy of the rank they have been drafted the team would make the playoffs easily.

Could not disagree more.

"Culture BS" is the biggest difference between excellence and mediocrity... That's true across sports and across any performance environment involving human beings.

 

[Rozz]

f***ing Buffalo... the WORST

this day is set up to be a big day of disappointment.. the Buffalo v Anaheim game was the one I had aby kind of hope for lol

 

[Justin11]

We can forget about the Sabres, not finishing below them…they are putrid.

 

[LaP]

Could not disagree more.

"Culture BS" is the biggest difference between excellence and mediocrity... That's true across sports and across any performance environment involving human beings.

Not sure you get what i say. Culture is important. But culture wont change a Jack Quinn into a Sidney Crosby. Sidney Crosby would have made buffalo a winning team and would have change the culture of the team for many years to come. Yes management can influence culture but there's a limit to what management can do. It can play a role for a guy like Kulich but it wont make the next Sidney Crosby or Nathan MacKinnon. There was no culture in LA when Kopitar got there. Team missed the playoffs 11 seasons out of 15 from 1993-1994 (right before trading Wayne) to 2008-2009 (Doughty 1st season), The team was a joke after trading Gretzky up until the point where Dougthy, Kopitar and Quick got there.

Let's revisit this in a couple of years and see if Pens culture made then win without Crosby or if Caps culture made then winout Ovy. Pens are already turning into a joke just because Crosby is not god anymore. They lost in the play-in against us 3 years ago and did not make the playoffs last year because they lost a game against Chicago to finish the year. Crosby can still play but he's not the best player in the league anymore and it shows. Culture wont turn Samuel Poulin or Calen Addison into good players.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

We can forget about the Sabres, not finishing below them…they are putrid.

Unless the idiot owner wakes up and fires Granato into the sun the Sabres will suck.

 

[Miller Time]

Not sure you get what i say. Culture is important. But culture wont change a Jack Quinn into a Sidney Crosby. Sidney Crosby would have made buffalo a winning team and would have change the culture of the team for many years to come. Yes management can influence culture but there's a limit to what management can do. It can play a role for a guy like Kulich but it wont make the next Sidney Crosby or Nathan MacKinnon. There was no culture in LA when Kopitar got there. Team missed the playoffs 11 seasons out of 15 from 1993-1994 (right before trading Wayne) to 2008-2009 (Doughty 1st season), The team was a joke after trading Gretzky up until to the point where Dougthy, Kopitar and Quick got there.

Again, disagree.

Culture is incredibly influential on the trajectory of an athlete, and success of a group. Especially in sustaining success.

That some players succeed despite being in a great culture and others fail despite being in a good environment, doesn't disprove the role it plays.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Buffalo actually played well & dominated the Ducks. Gibson had one of his games. UPL sucked. Sabres outshot them 37-15, but lost 4-3. Lol

Two things about the Sabres: too many flybys at the net. Guy was all alone in front, took a good shot, Gibson made a good save, and there was a rebound. The Sabre was already behind the net. Which brings up the 2nd thing, not nearly enough net drive, and traffic in the slot.

Oh well, no more games in hand for the Sabres. They stay ahead of Montreal based on RW tie breaker.

 

[Nicko999]

I still have hope for Anaheim to pass us so OK with this result.

I still think we can finish 3rd last.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Buffalo actually played well & dominated the Ducks. Gibson had one of his games. UPL sucked. Sabres outshot them 37-15, but lost 4-3. Lol

Two things about the Sabres: too many flybys at the net. Guy was all alone in front, took a good shot, Gibson made a good save, and there was a rebound. The Sabre was already behind the net. Which brings up the 2nd thing, not nearly enough net drive, and traffic in the slot.

Oh well, no more games in hand for the Sabres. They stay ahead of Montreal based on RW tie breaker.

They are a stupid team and can't play defense. Coaching staff should have been fired 2 months ago.

 

[LaP]

Again, disagree.

Culture is incredibly influential on the trajectory of an athlete, and success of a group. Especially in sustaining success.

That some players succeed despite being in a great culture and others fail despite being in a good environment, doesn't disprove the role it plays.

Let's agree to disagree then. But i still don't think you understand what i mean. I'm not actually saying culture is not important. I'm saying culture is built by the players and coaching staff / management. It's not inherent to the team's logo. It can be lost. It can be gained.

We have seen many teams with great culture fall into mediocrity because they did not draft well / trade well and had bad management. Culture in itself is nothing. It's not magical. It's not a belief. It's not inherited. It's something you build by drafting well, trading well, developing well, coaching well, signing well and managing your assets well.

The concept that Buffalo will lose for the rest of eternity because they are tanking and have a losing culture is just in my very and extremely humble opinion ludicrous at the very best. At one point a guy will get there and change the culture and they'll start winning. It has nothing to do with tanking. Tanking has been proven as a good way to build a winning team multiple times in the past denying that is denying reality.

 

[SwiftyHab]

We’re so toast

 

[LaP]

We’re so toast

There's more pucks on the ice than fans in the stands ...

 

[Nicko999]

Bad news: Oilers already leading 1-0 vs Yotes

Good news: Flames lead 1-0 vs Jets

Edit: Now 1-1 both games

Wow, 2-1 now both games not even 8 min in. Gonna be high scoring affairs.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Sorry Monahan. It's time for someone to take you out.

 

[Leto]

Kaprizov feasting on the Canucks .

 

[sheed36]

WTH.. Last I checked it was 4-1 Canucks vs Wild and now it's 8-6 Wild. That's a pretty wild turnaround.

 

[Miller Time]

Let's agree to disagree then. But i still don't think you understand what i mean. I'm not actually saying culture is not important. I'm saying culture is built by the players and coaching staff / management. It's not inherent to the team's logo. It can be lost. It can be gained.

We have seen many teams with great culture fall into mediocrity because they did not draft well / trade well and had bad management. Culture in itself is nothing. It's not magical. It's not a belief. It's not inherited. It's something you build by drafting well, trading well, developing well, coaching well, signing well and managing your assets well.

The concept that Buffalo will lose for the rest of eternity because they are tanking and have a losing culture is just in my very and extremely humble opinion ludicrous at the very best. At one point a guy will get there and change the culture and they'll start winning. It has nothing to do with tanking. Tanking has been proven as a good way to build a winning team multiple times in the past denying that is denying reality.

Disagree indeed, as I suggested in my first reply.

Who is suggesting that the Sabres are "doomed for eternity", that's utter nonsense. I don't see much value in a strawman like the one you are holding up... It weakens rather than strengthens your argument.

Perhaps more curious, why waste your time bothering to refute something so idiotic if that's what was actually posted?


Also...very odd that you would use the example of "bad management" undermining a group with a "good culture". I'd suggest that this may be where your opinion may benefit from clarity as to what defines "culture". How a group can have "bad management" yet a good culture is curious and suggests a very odd understanding of culture.

To me, it suggests a lack of understanding of culture & group dynamics to dismiss the integral role it plays in creating and sustaining team success.

 

[sheed36]

Kaprizov feasting on the Canucks .

Eriksson Ek feasting as well. 3G + 2A

 

[The Great Weal]

Funny how we are neck and neck with Arizona for the 3rd straight year, we have had 2 less points than them in 2022 and 2023.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Sorry Monahan. It's time for someone to take you out.

lol My Flames fan Bro-In-Law is LIVID. He usually never shows emotion.

 

[The Great Weal]

This Kaprizov-EK-Boldy line sure looks familiar huh

 

[McGees]

RELEGATE BUFFALO AND SENS TO AHL!!!
holy crap they suck.
Please folks, stop suggesting they or Yotes will finish ahead of us.

 

[Runner77]

Kinda like the reasoning that "drafting the right guys" is all it takes... Ignoring the role that coaching, culture & communication play in setting prospects up for success

Drafting the right guys has been an issue with this organization, esp. erring on so many first round picks in the pre-Hughes era.

Development matters but can only get a talent achieve his potential, not achieve a higher ceiling. If the scouting staff errs on that higher ceiling player, then it’ll snowball from there.

Pay, overpay, poach the best amateur and pro scouting staff money can buy should always be Job 1 — as it is also the toughest job since most orgs tend to hold on to their best scouting talents. Coaching and development people are not as scarce a resource.

 

[LaP]

RELEGATE BUFFALO AND SENS TO AHL!!!
holy crap they suck.
Please folks, stop suggesting they or Yotes will finish ahead of us

2014-2015 to 2023-2024

We are not much better tbh

Ottawa was one of the best team for a long while. From 96-97 to 2012-2013 they missed the playoffs twice only, went to the 2nd round 5 times, the semis once and the scf once. Then Alfredson retired, they lost Chara on the UFA market and they made some bad trades like Zibanejad and they have yet to recover but let's not act we have been much better than then cause it's not true.