HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Adam Michaels]

Desired results for tonight:

- BUF win vs. ANA: BUF win moves them 2 pts ahead of MTL.
- ARI win vs. EDM: ARI win ties MTL in pts, but ARI hold the tie-breaker with more RWs.
- OTT win vs. TBL: OTT win moves them 4 pts behind MTL. They will have 3 games in hand after tonight.
- CGY win vs. WPG: CGY win moves them 5 pts ahead of MTL. MTL will hold a game in hand after tonight.
- MIN win vs. VAN: MIN win moves them 6 pts ahead of MTL.
- STL win vs. TOR: STL win moves them 10 pts ahead of MTL.


*If ARI wins, they will move ahead of MTL. They will tie them at 52 pts in 55 GP, but ARI have the tie-breaker with 18 RWs vs. MTL's 13. So depending on this result, MTL will either remain in 26th place or they will drop to 27th (Bottom-6).*

 

[Adam Michaels]

Buffalo Arizona and the Sens are such poverty franchises its incredible.

And as much as I write about desired results for the purpose of this thread, the last thing I want the Canadiens to fall into is the cycle that Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa, and Anaheim find themselves in.

They've drafted high end talents with their high picks, but that seems to be insufficient because they're still stuck at the bottom of the standings year after year.

Last year, Buffalo and Ottawa did show progress. They were not far from the playoffs. So I thought this year, they would truly challenge for a playoff spot. But here we are this year and they're back among the bottom teams.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I have zero fear of habs ever reaching that point , I've seen too many awful habs teams play above their heads and make the post season with a weak roster playing off of heart and pure st flanelle culture.
Something in the water here will simply prevent us from ever being a poverty franchise to that extent. Not even worried

 

[morhilane]

And as much as I write about desired results for the purpose of this thread, the last thing I want the Canadiens to fall into is the cycle that Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa, and Anaheim find themselves in.

They've drafted high end talents with their high picks, but that seems to be insufficient because they're still stuck at the bottom of the standings year after year.

Last year, Buffalo and Ottawa did show progress. They were not far from the playoffs. So I thought this year, they would truly challenge for a playoff spot. But here we are this year and they're back among the bottom teams.

Bufallo and Ottawa goaltending got worst this year and their high end talent aren't high end 200-feet players to compensate.

Arizona was doing well in the first half of the season, I feel like the talks of them getting moved/sold got to the players in the 2nd half. Or they were playing well over they head and have no juice left (kinda like the habs pre-All Star).

Anaheim despite what people believe because of a few success with dmen, had poor drafting/development and an empty cupboard before they started to miss the playoffs five years ago. Zegras is the only impact NHLer they got from the 2019 draft and there are lots of talks about him getting traded. With the Drysdale trade, they got nothing left from the 2020 draft... So it's very still the old players from the pre-rebuild playing.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Bufallo and Ottawa goaltending got worst this year and their high end talent aren't high end 200-feet players to compensate.

Arizona was doing well in the first half of the season, I feel like the talks of them getting moved/sold got to the players in the 2nd half. Or they were playing well over they head and have no juice left (kinda like the habs pre-All Star).

Anaheim despite what people believe because of a few success with dmen, had poor drafting/development and an empty cupboard before they started to miss the playoffs five years ago. Zegras is the only impact NHLer they got from the 2019 draft and there are lots of talks about him getting traded. With the Drysdale trade, they got nothing left from the 2020 draft... So it's very still the old players from the pre-rebuild playing.

Buffalo and Ottawa's goltenders were bad and their hopes were Korposalo and Levi. Levi wasn't ready and Korpisalo was not the answer. Add that to incompetent coaches and you have a recipe for falure. Montembault is a better goaltender than anything those teams have and MSL is a better coach at the moment.

 

[HabsForHire]

Buffalo Arizona and the Sens are such poverty franchises its incredible.

I wonder if their fans even get excited for high draft picks haha it's crazy

 

[HuGort]

Since Monahan trade Habs 1-4 in last 5 games. Allowing 21 goals against. Only win was against Ducks. Not hard to tell he was big reason we were .500.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Ottawa losing to the Ducks and Hawks without any points kind of f***ed things up!!! I was sure with the games in hand they would have passed us. Those are 4 big points lost.

Another big week, Hopefully the Sabres don't choke today and come smack us like they did last time at the Bell Centre.

Should be a good week for the tank!!

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Buffalo plays early at 12:30 pm. They can beat the Ducks! Everyone beats the Ducks (ok, not Ottawa so f*** them)! Sabres will be 2 pts clear! No more games in hand.

Coyotes will be in a 10 game losing streak after today's game (4pm vs Oilers). It's like a 10 game winning streak only in reverse. They're literally going backwards! No way they beat Edmonton. They'll stay 2 pts back but with no games in hand.

Ottawa is in Tampa Bay, who just got smoked by Florida, 9-2. Senators were smoking something in their loss to the Ducks. It's 18 & sunny in Tampa Bay, Sens players are probably beaching it. TB rides them into the sunset, and Senators lose one of their games in hand on us.

 

[McGees]

And as much as I write about desired results for the purpose of this thread, the last thing I want the Canadiens to fall into is the cycle that Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa, and Anaheim find themselves in.

They've drafted high end talents with their high picks, but that seems to be insufficient because they're still stuck at the bottom of the standings year after year.

Last year, Buffalo and Ottawa did show progress. They were not far from the playoffs. So I thought this year, they would truly challenge for a playoff spot. But here we are this year and they're back among the bottom teams.

Vet leadership, goaltending and coaching has been these teams problems. This will be our last year as a top 10 pick. Need a good one.

 

[RealityBytes]

I have zero fear of habs ever reaching that point , I've seen too many awful habs teams play above their heads and make the post season with a weak roster playing off of heart and pure st flanelle culture.
Something in the water here will simply prevent us from ever being a poverty franchise to that extent. Not even worried

What happens though, is that teams like Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa, and Anaheim staying worse means they take the better picks, that along with a couple of follow teams like Columbus, San Jose, leaves the Habs with a worse pick. A pick that doesn't add much to the overall improvement relative to other teams. Lots of average, no stars.

The Habs then end up in that "little bit of an improvement" cycle and don't move past the dead zone of continually running at ninth in the conference or a one and out playoff team. Not good enough to be good, not bad enough to get better. It's the dead zone in sports. It's a rut, and after a while, it sticks.

The NHL is a parity league and a team can get past that with signing good free agents, but neither that, nor good drafting is a strong point for the Habs.

 

[xposbrad]

What happens though, is that teams like Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa, and Anaheim staying worse means they take the better picks, that along with a couple of follow teams like Columbus, San Jose, leaves the Habs with a worse pick. A pick that doesn't add much to the overall improvement relative to other teams. Lots of average, no stars.

The Habs then end up in that "little bit of an improvement" cycle and don't move past the dead zone of continually running at ninth in the conference or a one and out playoff team. Not good enough to be good, not bad enough to get better. It's the dead zone in sports. It's a rut, and after a while, it sticks.

The NHL is a parity league and a team can get past that with signing good free agents, but neither that, nor good drafting is a strong point for the Habs.

We could easily end up a middle of the pack team that squeaks into the playoffs, hits the cap with little room to improve and then never gets high end draft picks. But, the fans here are just happy making the playoffs again, so they will meet expectations. The real fans who want a cup, that could be another story. Let's see what happens with this draft and moving forward, if we believe in HuGo maybe they can overcome not drafting bottom 5 again.

 

[RealityBytes]

We could easily end up a middle of the pack team that squeaks into the playoffs, hits the cap with little room to improve and then never gets high end draft picks. But, the fans here are just happy making the playoffs again, so they will meet expectations. The real fans who want a cup, that could be another story. Let's see what happens with this draft and moving forward, if we believe in HuGo maybe they can overcome not drafting bottom 5 again.

Problem is, it's a bad spot to get into. and tough to get out of. All other teams are improving all the time as well, and a small improvement of a team doesn't gain in its relative comparison and standing to other teams. They just stay in the same relative spot.

 

[xposbrad]

Problem is, it's a bad spot to get into. and tough to get out of. All other teams are improving all the time as well, and a small improvement of a team doesn't gain in its relative comparison and standing to other teams. They just stay in the same relative spot.

We've done it for 30 years, and there are still posters on these forums who don't understand the need to tank. There's a large audience that just want us to be somewhat competitive and have a 'hope' we get into the playoffs and win the cup. I have friends like that too, they said being bad the last couple of years was enough already. They bring up, well we made it to the finals with a very mediocre team so anything is possible.

Listen, I'm 45, I've seen what this club has done the last 30 years and I am ready for a serious 3-5 year run at the cup and don't want to be stuck in that middle zone just because we rushed it or held onto players unnecessarily. We know this is most likely our last tank year, but we're going to even be lucky to get a bottom 10, not sure I like that for the last year.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

What happens though, is that teams like Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa, and Anaheim staying worse means they take the better picks, that along with a couple of follow teams like Columbus, San Jose, leaves the Habs with a worse pick. A pick that doesn't add much to the overall improvement relative to other teams. Lots of average, no stars.

The Habs then end up in that "little bit of an improvement" cycle and don't move past the dead zone of continually running at ninth in the conference or a one and out playoff team. Not good enough to be good, not bad enough to get better. It's the dead zone in sports. It's a rut, and after a while, it sticks.

The NHL is a parity league and a team can get past that with signing good free agents, but neither that, nor good drafting is a strong point for the Habs.

Oh i totally agree with you , I'm the biggest tanker on the site id tank for the next 3 years .

I'm just saying that the posters who are afraid of 10 years at the bottom clearly haven't been following this team. The team will move into win now mode eventually , I just hope we can get enough tanking assets before the shift into that era. I also despise posters who want to transition into fight for 10th and 9th place too soon.

My point was more so there's something in this towns water that makes garbage teams play above their heads , easy explanation is price but we've seen it with other tenders in the 21st century too. I wouldn't be too worried about being Ottawa Buffalo and Arizona , I'm much more worried about being another 21st century rendition of the habs spinning their wheels for 20 years with not enough talent and no shot to win anything ever like we did under gainey bergevin

 

[Benstheman]

Oh i totally agree with you , I'm the biggest tanker on the site id tank for the next 3 years .

I'm just saying that the posters who are afraid of 10 years at the bottom clearly haven't been following this team. The team will move into win now mode eventually , I just hope we can get enough tanking assets before the shift into that era. I also despise posters who want to transition into fight for 10th and 9th place too soon.

My point was more so there's something in this towns water that makes garbage teams play above their heads , easy explanation is price but we've seen it with other tenders in the 21st century too. I wouldn't be too worried about being Ottawa Buffalo and Arizona , I'm much more worried about being another 21st century rendition of the habs spinning their wheels for 20 years with not enough talent and no shot to win anything ever like we did under gainey bergevin

you thank 3 more years and you lose Caufield and Suzuki. They will ask for trades and i would understand.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

you thank 3 more years and you lose Caufield and Suzuki. They will ask for trades and i would understand.

We've been rebuilding for 2 years , obviously they won't intentionally tank , they never have.

If we still stink in 3 years Suzuki and Caufield will have their blame for it aswell

 

[Sorinth]

What happens though, is that teams like Buffalo, Arizona, Ottawa, and Anaheim staying worse means they take the better picks, that along with a couple of follow teams like Columbus, San Jose, leaves the Habs with a worse pick. A pick that doesn't add much to the overall improvement relative to other teams. Lots of average, no stars.

The Habs then end up in that "little bit of an improvement" cycle and don't move past the dead zone of continually running at ninth in the conference or a one and out playoff team. Not good enough to be good, not bad enough to get better. It's the dead zone in sports. It's a rut, and after a while, it sticks.

The NHL is a parity league and a team can get past that with signing good free agents, but neither that, nor good drafting is a strong point for the Habs.

Except we've seen that the bolded mostly isn't true. Teams like Ottawa, Buffalo and many more are often getting higher picks and better prospects relative to other teams yet they stay in the basement year after year.

It's true we might leave the rebuild without enough star power to become an immediate contender but the same is true for pretty much every cup winning tank team. Tampa tanked and got Stamkos and Hedman but on paper that's not enough they needed the unkown/unexpected prospects like Kucherov and Point to turn into stars for the rebuild to become a success story instead of a failure. And the same goes for every other tank team, they leave their rebuild with plenty of holes and unknowns, it's only years later when you see that you find out whether you have the star power or not.

And on top of that, leaving the rebuild and ending up in the dead zone/no-mans land isn't even a problem. Tampa did that and yet a few years later had a 3rd overall pick anyways, same with Colorado who then got Makar at 4th. And we've seen it ourselves, we've never properly tanked before Hughes became GM yet in a 20 year period we still ended up with 10th, 5th, 3rd, 9th, 3rd and 1st. Becoming a bubble team doesn't mean you won't get another chance at a top pick, especially since the more recent lottery rules in place. What matters is that you make the most of those top picks when they do show up, we did that with Price but not with the others (Slaf obviously being too early to tell).

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Problem is, it's a bad spot to get into. and tough to get out of. All other teams are improving all the time as well, and a small improvement of a team doesn't gain in its relative comparison and standing to other teams. They just stay in the same relative spot.

Not really. If other teams are getting better than that means other teams are getting worse.

We didn't do a full tear down & neither did Toronto. It works better.

Buffalo & Ottawa have also had poor management to f*** things up for that long.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Well, Buffalo tied it at 3 with less than 5 minutes to go in the 2nd, but Anaheim scores with 64 seconds left in period.

It's 4-3 Anaheim after 2.

 

[Rozz]

Man, Buffalo goalie is fully aboard the Sabers tank.. Jesus he's bad today

 

[LaP]

Except we've seen that the bolded mostly isn't true. Teams like Ottawa, Buffalo and many more are often getting higher picks and better prospects relative to other teams yet they stay in the basement year after year.

They stay in the basement simply because they did not draft the right guys.

The whole Ottawa and Buffalo will suck for the next 3000 years because they tank is just stupid reasoning. It's a reasoning that ignores the teams that went in the basement for a few years until they found the right guys.

 

[Miller Time]

They stay in the basement simply because they did not draft the right guys.

The whole Ottawa and Buffalo will suck for the next 3000 years because they tank is just stupid reasoning. It's a reasoning that ignores the teams that went in the basement for a few years until they found the right guys.

Kinda like the reasoning that "drafting the right guys" is all it takes... Ignoring the role that coaching, culture & communication play in setting prospects up for success

Tanking for the sake of acquiring highly rated prospects is not sufficient to build a contender. Buffalo is a very good example of this... Akin to "building via the draft" while not adding any 1st round picks over a decade of that stated approach.

Fortunately we've got a leadership group in place that seem to grasp the big picture, and are methodically putting the various pieces in place to build a culture of excellence with an emphasis on adding & nurturing elite talent.

Future is bright

 

[sandviper]

Well, Buffalo tied it at 3 with less than 5 minutes to go in the 2nd, but Anaheim scores with 64 seconds left in period.

It's 4-3 Anaheim after 2.

They have a rule where you can’t pick #1 more than twice in 5 years or something like that, right? They should make a new rule called “The Buffalo” where you’re not allowed more than 8 top-10 picks in a 10 years period!

 

[Leto]

They have a rule where you can’t pick #1 more than twice in 5 years or something like that, right? They should make a new rule called “The Buffalo” where you’re not allowed more than 8 top-10 picks in a 10 years period!

Not quite. The rule is ''Teams are only allowed to improve their positioning via the Lottery twice in a five year period (beginning with the 2022 Lottery).''.

For instance, the Habs did not improve their positioning via the lottery in 2022, while the Hawks did in 2023.