The New and Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

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He will be 34 when his contract is up. I don't think he will fall that far off. He is 30 now and is still producing around his career avg. However at around age 33/34 he likely won't be worth his 11M aav

If you have time take a look at Crosby's inverview with spittin chickets (about a year or two old I think); in there he talks about he is not worried about his game but his skating as league gets faster every year and his summer workouts mostly involve either keeping up his speed or trying to improve the speed.

Given the way JT skates; I am not sure his game will hold up. Back in the day when the game wasn't this fast; JT's ability given that context was good. If game today was still like that JT's contribution to the team success would have been about the same I guess but game has gotten faster. Not sure how long JT will be able to keep up with the speed of the game
 
Just look at the Maple Leafs for "evidence." Pat Quinn was a GM for 4 years. John Ferguson Jr lasted parts of 5 years with a lockout. Brian Burke lasted 3.5 years. Dave Nonis lasted 3 years. Lou Lamoriello lasted 3 years.
That's one team, and Toronto Maple Leaf GM terms have ranged from 2-30 years, so that's not really evidence. Our GM tenures over the past couple decades have tended to be shorter because our team has been garbage and managed horribly for most of the cap era, not because "Canada".
 
Well, I shit you not.

I actually read that Keefe is a better coach than Babcock a few pages back.

You cannot make this shit up.
 
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That's one team, and Toronto Maple Leaf GM terms have ranged from 2-30 years, so that's not really evidence. Our GM tenures over the past couple decades have tended to be shorter because our team has been garbage and managed horribly, not because "Canada".

The short duration of some of these GM tenures is a function of not meeting expectations set by ownership. Which is always the reason why a GM is fired. If and when Dubas is fired it will be because of that reason and not based on any average time on the job based on any sample group.
 
Tavares' production last year and this year is right in line with his production with the Isles.

The only reason people think he's declining is because he had a career year in year 1 with us.

The guy is just turning 31yrs old - meanwhile leafs fans praise 36yr olds on other teams for being too awesome for us to compare to.
 
If you have time take a look at Crosby's inverview with spittin chickets (about a year or two old I think); in there he talks about he is not worried about his game but his skating as league gets faster every year and his summer workouts mostly involve either keeping up his speed or trying to improve the speed.

Given the way JT skates; I am not sure his game will hold up. Back in the day when the game wasn't this fast; JT's ability given that context was good. If game today was still like that JT's contribution to the team success would have been about the same I guess but game has gotten faster. Not sure how long JT will be able to keep up with the speed of the game
Very true but JT has a high Iq that should allow him to still be a very effective player and still produce. He has never been the fastest guy but there are plenty of examples of guys who were never fast and still had long careers. Spezza and Thornton are good examples of that.

I think as long as JT can play a positional sound 200 ft game and be a good around the net as well as being insulated with 2 speedy wingers who are offensively gifted he will continue to keep producing the next 3-4 years. Maybe something like this.

Amirov Tavares Nylander
 
With Matthews having a full NMC in year #3 that might push decision to just 2 more seasons, because will you enter the last year with the potential he walks away for free?

So does this mean that Matthews NMC kicks in on the same day that the Leafs can extend him? (July 1, 2023)
 
It's a function of having garbage teams and garbage management, which is not something that applies to Dubas.

Straight from Dubas himself:

Kyle Dubas acknowledged that his job as general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs may be in jeopardy if they again fail in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

"I think it's certainly fair to say that if there aren't changes to our performance in the end that there will be changes to the organization," Dubas said on "The Bob McCown Podcast" on Thursday. "That comes with the territory in operating in a market like this and operating with a team that hasn't reached its potential in the playoffs."

Dubas says Maple Leafs changes could be made with playoff failure
 
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I agree that fans are going to be jaded and I would be right there jumping on the bandwagon if there wernt so many reasons why the post season has been difficult that are outside the bounds of where the blame is being directed. Fans are so angry that they are actually blaming the good parts of the team while ignoring the obvious problems, especially because two of the problems at the top of the list are legitimate excuses that dont allow fans to vent at the source of their problems.

(longish post incoming on the situation)

1. Has Toronto faced the best goaltending out of any first round team in the first round? The answer to this is undoubtedly yes, not because it was the Leafs playing in the first round but because they just happened to face the best goaltender of that particular playoffs in the first round. Three years ago, and even though they didnt win the cup, Rask's .934 all the way to the final was easily the best playoff goalie performance that year and maybe the best of his career. Did it suck to have to face him in the first round? Yea. He was the difference in a close series. 2 years ago, Korpisalo went on the best stretch of his career against both Toronto and Tampa playing way above his numbers while saddled with an underperforming Jackets team and even setting the playoff save record against the Bolts in a much closer series than the 5 game length showed (all games 1 goal games held together by him) Did it suck to face him in the first round? For sure. Last year, Price comes out of nowhere after a rough year and leads the Cinderella Habs to the final playing 30 points above his regular season. It sucked to face all these guys but it happened and the fact remains we have never had the better goalie in a series during this era.

2. Has Toronto faced the most adversity of any team due to losing players the last few years? There should be no denying this, especially last year when we had our best player (Matthews) with a bad wrist that looked ike it was affecting his shot and needed surgury, our Captain (who was coming into the playoffs on a tear) suffering a horrifying season ending injury in the first period of the first game, losing our best playoff dman (Muzzin) for the second year in a row during the series and our big playoff pickup (Foligno) missing games and playing hurt the entire series. 4 of the ten best players on the team were compromised last year to go along with being at a disadvantage in net.

These facts are truly maddening to those that are looking for blood after another first round loss.

Despite all that, run of play the last two years under Keefe has gone very much in favor of the Leafs. Whether its shots or scoring chances, the Leafs have excellent numbers that even exceed their playoff numbers and rank as one of the best teams of the first round in these areas. Keefe is actually one of the last people to blame (unless you really want to get on him about the PP). For all those decrying that "D wins championships" during the Babcock years, the Leafs have become one of the better defensive teams in the league to go along with their offensive firepower. In many ways, the last two years resemble what the Pens and Oilers have gone through with goaltending differential, depth issues and bad luck stopping the better team from winning a playoff series two years in a row.

One thing I really have to shake my head at is how Covid greatly affected the salary cap giving ammo to those who claimed Matthews and Marner shouldnt have received the contracts they did, despite the fact Matthews has largely lived up to the contract and Marner is pretty damn close(Nylander scoring some points against Price saved him the outrage but he was absolutely savaged in the past despite living up to his deal). Nurse and Hamilton getting close to 11 million each a season (which probably would have happened without the flat cap) would certainly have put things in better perspective. The facts coming out that Matthews needed surgery has quieted things a bit for Matthews and so the whipping boy left would be Marner who did have some rough parts in the playoffs but was overall a net plus for the team and certainly doesn't deserve the ludicrous treatment he's been getting from the fans (including somehow being labeled personally responsible for negotiating his contract when he 99% wasnt involved in) but even then, how did he perform?

For straight up production, Marner had 8 points in 12 games the last two years against said elite goaltending with an injured partner half the time. He also holds a positive goal differential during this time (a sign of just how good defensively he has been despite being snakebitten). Is that really so bad? Should he be the player folks are picking on to the point Leafs fans are rallying around him not making team Canada!? The Leafs top players take away all the other teams top checkers so why is he getting crapped on so hard for his 8 points in 12 games when depth scoring was so brutal.

Just check out this:

Matthews/Marner combined last 2 years vs mostly up against supposedly the best D in the league and one of the best defensive centers in the game:
Combined TOI: 508 minutes in 12 games
Points: 19
Combined even-strength goal differential: +4

Collection of underperforming depth players (Mikheyev, Brooks, Gauthier, Johnsson, Clifford, Nash, Engvall, Folgino, Thornton, Simmonds, Kapanen, ) against secondary players on those teams:
Combined TOI: 685 minutes in 12 games
Points: 6
Combined even-strength goal differential: -6

I think I know which direction the blame should be heading in (and here is the opening for Dubas criticism for not surrounding the Leafs stars with the right depth players).

But even after the injuries, the bizarre goaltending draws and underperforming depth players, how could you not blame the stupid giveaways as more of a reason the Leafs crapped out than any perceived problems with Matthews/Marner. Whether its Gally giving away a 2 on 0 in overtime to blow a game or Dermott bumbling another game away or Sandin coughing up backbreaking goals on giveaways or other examples, its hard to give your stars a chance to win games when your depth is helping out the other team so much....but I know...Marner accidentally flipped the puck over the glass.....how awful.



Quick thought to end here. How the hell did Stamkos, Point and Cup Finals MVP Kucherov win the cup last year (8-4 to close the playoffs) scoring a combined 30 points in their last 12 games while Nylander, Marner and Matthews combined for 31 points in 12 games the last two years (Toronto goes 5-7) and couldnt get out of the first round?

I think a healthy team that always wins the goaltending battle and had good depth scoring that didnt give games away had something to do with it.

Some of ya'll need to stop being so silly.

/rant over.
Matthews and Marner haven’t scored in a elimination game in four years and have one only in 5 playoff elimination games scored way back in the first playoff for this core together against Washington. We lost to a couple cup winners and finalists and final 4 teams too i recognize.
Top players that disappeared every year when you heed them deserve criticism. The intelligence of your post is off the chart good for my thinking.
The team construction was abysmal on the Fringes as Dubas likes to call the dumpster dive players he’s assembled to compliment his top players. The bottom 6 was disgustingly gross every playoff and actually offered very little of what we needed.
The injection of players this off season that flat out fight and players that do both and bring some attitude were missing every year previously. To this day our defense is not near tough enough with character guys that will not take any sh!t.
This defense this year is soft on the underbelly and many won’t like to hear that but it’s going to show up. When was the last time anyones seen a leaf defenseman go completely ballistic after a cheap shot on our goalie or just even start fighting in rhe crease impulsively. It’s a soft yellow defense that see’s a cheapshot and looks for the referring to fight their battles for them.
Mikheyev wants out,Rielly is not a cap fit and Kerfoot is to much for a third liner. All should be moved and some cap redistribution needs to fill out the support players much better if we are ever going to win simply a single playoff round.
Moving Them 3 is $10,000,000 we can mostly fill internally now with the exception being Morgs obviously. We have Kerfoot and Mikheyev filled internally by Robertson and possible Anderson or Gogoleve or Abramov ( way underrated) here.

Then we consider the picks,prospects and actual roster players we will/ could get by moving these guys for needs. Rielly being moved would require a defensive defenseman for instance Josh Manson, you lose offense but you gain a player you need more of what he brings and is a affordable resign.

Sandin starts getting bigger minutes in the offensive capacity morgs has filled so admirably for years but there will be a few hiccups expected from the rookies.

The team was simple to soft and a bit yellow all these years to be right blunt, they were cowardly.
 
Well, I shit you not.

I actually read that Keefe is a better coach than Babcock a few pages back.

You cannot make this shit up.

It's actually kind of interesting. Babcock's first season as NHL coach was as a 40 year old in Anaheim, where he went to the Stanley Cup finals. Keefe's been an NHL coach for about 2 years and is 40 years old.
 
He stopped the skid the team was on. Let’s stop pretending Babcock was a monumental disaster. Franchise record in points and 3 very close playoff upsets. Now we struggle against pretty terrible teams in the playoffs. Also PK was bottom 3rd last year and PP was 16th? I haven’t checked but I don’t think Babcock ever hit that level of futility
come on now brother. tha habs are not "pretty terrible". they made it to the finals after all.
if the habs are pretty terrible. what the hell does that make us.
 
At the moment, we don't have a long term, since none of the Big 4 are signed for more than 4 seasons.

How whole league is restricted by CBA it's kind of common situation. If you look team like Avalanche it was on that situation for year or two. Now they have longer commitment with Makar and Landeskog. If we resign Rielly it will reset our cycle with this core. We're in the mid of last one. If we think about that way teams like Boston is in really bad situation, though they probably resign part of their core. Like we'll resign ours when their contracts run out.

We should be in good situation in that sense, because we paid our stars more than fairly. Lot of bad blood was in the air during Marners last negotiation, because Lou rejected those rookie bonuses and Marner lost lots of money because of that. At the same time were in good spot for real reset, if we really think this core is flawed. We have no anchors at the moment, if we want to rebuild.

Usually those star players tend to and want to resign.
 
How whole league is restricted by CBA it's kind of common situation. If you look team like Avalanche it was on that situation for year or two. Now they have longer commitment with Makar and Landeskog. If we resign Rielly it will reset our cycle with this core. We're in the mid of last one. If we think about that way teams like Boston is in really bad situation, though they probably resign part of their core. Like we'll resign ours when their contracts run out.

We should be in good situation in that sense, because we paid our stars more than fairly. Lot of bad blood was in the air during Marners last negotiation, because Lou rejected those rookie bonuses and Marner lost lots of money because of that. At the same time were in good spot for real reset, if we really think this core is flawed. We have no anchors at the moment, if we want to rebuild.

Usually those star players tend to and want to resign.

I agree. The more of a premium a team pays on the existing/current contract on a player, the easier their next deal will be to fit into the cap structure. I'm less worried about having to find loose change for Matthews for this reason, but it's why it's harder to fork over the raise for Rielly.

But it will be interesting to see the down stream effect league wide when even the well positioned cap team are maxed out and everyone is struggling to keep guys.
 
Straight from Dubas himself:
There's really nothing special being said there. Potential changes to the organization at some point does not equate to Dubas being fired next year based entirely on playoff outcome. Dubas wouldn't even be the one making the decision on Dubas.
 
You heard correctly.
Oh we know what we heard. We're just laughing at you. Because that statement is comically stupid.

Dislike Babcock all you like. Keefe has not a shred of success to his resume. Babs has cups and gold medals. Keefe hasn't won a single playoff round ffs.
 
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Doesn't mean it won't happen here, especially if we don't have a breakthrough very soon.

People shouldn't kid themselves, Nylander is a mercenary just like his old man, and Matthews loves the SouthWest US.

I'm not saying they're both leaving for sure, but IMO, it wouldn't be the least bit surprising.
 
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There's really nothing special being said there. Potential changes to the organization at some point does not equate to Dubas being fired next year based entirely on playoff outcome. Dubas wouldn't even be the one making the decision on Dubas.
It’s one hell of a big difference than speculating on it on a hockey board Son. He was almost fired this year. Defeat in next year's playoffs will see changes in management and player personnel. You call that nothing eh ✅
 
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