The Jets D

[Eyeseeing]

Stanley who?
Who cares

 

[JetsFan815]

Even if Heinola plays on theMoose this season, there will be a spot opening up after Dillon's departure after or during or before this season.

The fear is that if you send him back to the Moose again, you may be burning that relationship with the player and he might be less inclined to sign here when he finally gets leverage. I'd rather keep him up and preserve that relationship esp since a good chunk of our D are nothing to write home about.

So, what does Chevy do with Stanley?
I'd offer him 1 x 775k.

I wonder what him not filing for arb means. Arb would atleast have given him a guaranteed contract at market value. Now he is open to being lowballed by the Jets. I wonder if his intention is to hold out and not sign a contract if the Jets don't trade him.

 

[10Ducky10]

The fear is that if you send him back to the Moose again, you may be burning that relationship with the player and he might be less inclined to sign here when he finally gets leverage. I'd rather keep him up and preserve that relationship esp since a good chunk of our D are nothing to write home about.



I wonder what him not filing for arb means. Arb would atleast have given him a guaranteed contract at market value. Now he is open to being lowballed by the Jets. I wonder if his intention is to hold out and not sign a contract if the Jets don't trade him.

If his play deserves a spot, he should get it and only then. If he goes down this season but is playing regularly in 2 seasons, why wouldn't he stay?

Stanley can hold out all he wants. That isn't going to faze Chevy.

 

[surixon]

If his play deserves a spot, he should get it and only then. If he goes down this but is playing regularly in 2 seasons, why wouldn't he stay?

Stanley can hold out all he wants. That isn't going to faze Chevy.

Heinola has dominated the AHL for a while now. He is going to do what the org wants him to do this summer. It's hard to think of what more he needs to do to warrant a legit opportunity.

 

[KingBogo]

Heinola has dominated the AHL for a while now. He is going to do what the org wants him to do this summer. It's hard to think of what more he needs to do to warrant a legit opportunity.

Agreed this is the season Heinola gets his first real opportunity, but I’m waiting to see how things shake out in terms of what the roster looks like.

 

[surixon]

Agreed this is the season Heinola gets his first real opportunity, but I’m waiting to see how things shake out in terms of what the roster looks like.

Yeah, hard to see him getting one if we keep all the expensive vets on the roster.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So, what does Chevy do with Stanley?
I'd offer him 1 x 775k.

His QOis 875k, iirc.

 

[DRW204]

what i am interested in seeing is how repeatable the Jets offense from the back-end is

last year there was a big uptick league-wide scoring, which inherently will bleed into defenseman (something like the most amount of Dmen that hit 70+ pts since 92-93 i believe). however even w/ a league-wide upward trend... the Jets ranked out much better than previous years.

the last 4 years: Jets D-men goals / league rank

'19-'20: 21/29th
CDN DIV: 10/31st
'21-'22: 24/31st
'22-'23: 46/6th

huge jump. anomaly? . we'll find out.

 

[10Ducky10]

His QOis 875k, iirc.

Well, I guess I could go another 100k...

 

[Jet]

Heinola has dominated the AHL for a while now. He is going to do what the org wants him to do this summer. It's hard to think of what more he needs to do to warrant a legit opportunity.

He needs to come into camp fit, strong, and ready to compete. He has to be willing to learn and do exactly what the org. wants him to through TC and exy, and not fall off when rosters get pared down.

He then has to take whatever opportunity is given to him in the regular season and perform confidently.

He still has a lot to do to earn a spot in the NHL.

To date, he's done some of these well, and has fallen flat on his face on others.

I distinctly recall the first year we really thought he had a legitimate shot to make the opening day roster he was atrocious in camp. Other times he's just looked really nervous and timid in regular season games.

He can't be concerned with what chances others are getting. He and he alone will be the one who determines whether he plays in the nhl and when.

We can argue forever whether Stanley has been given too much rope, and he, not enough. Whether we like it or not, size is a real attribute when looking at a players potential in the nhl, especially at D. Smaller d counteract their size disadvantage with higher skill, execution, and decision making. Ville has that, but he has not displayed that more than a few flashes at the highest level.

History is littered with players who are great ahlers but couldn't take the next step.

Take the next step, Ville.

 

[Flair Hay]

He needs to come into camp fit, strong, and ready to compete. He has to be willing to learn and do exactly what the org. wants him to through TC and exy, and not fall off when rosters get pared down.

He then has to take whatever opportunity is given to him in the regular season and perform confidently.

He still has a lot to do to earn a spot in the NHL.

To date, he's done some of these well, and has fallen flat on his face on others.

I distinctly recall the first year we really thought he had a legitimate shot to make the opening day roster he was atrocious in camp. Other times he's just looked really nervous and timid in regular season games.

He can't be concerned with what chances others are getting. He and he alone will be the one who determines whether he plays in the nhl and when.

We can argue forever whether Stanley has been given too much rope, and he, not enough. Whether we like it or not, size is a real attribute when looking at a players potential in the nhl, especially at D. Smaller d counteract their size disadvantage with higher skill, execution, and decision making. Ville has that, but he has not displayed that more than a few flashes at the highest level.

History is littered with players who are great ahlers but couldn't take the next step.

Take the next step, Ville.

Couldn't have said it better.

Bowness isn't trying to squeeze the kid out. He is a great fit for his system specifically. He just doesn't have the defensive IQ yet to compensate for the lack of man strength.

 

[surixon]

He needs to come into camp fit, strong, and ready to compete. He has to be willing to learn and do exactly what the org. wants him to through TC and exy, and not fall off when rosters get pared down.

He then has to take whatever opportunity is given to him in the regular season and perform confidently.

He still has a lot to do to earn a spot in the NHL.

To date, he's done some of these well, and has fallen flat on his face on others.

I distinctly recall the first year we really thought he had a legitimate shot to make the opening day roster he was atrocious in camp. Other times he's just looked really nervous and timid in regular season games.

He can't be concerned with what chances others are getting. He and he alone will be the one who determines whether he plays in the nhl and when.

We can argue forever whether Stanley has been given too much rope, and he, not enough. Whether we like it or not, size is a real attribute when looking at a players potential in the nhl, especially at D. Smaller d counteract their size disadvantage with higher skill, execution, and decision making. Ville has that, but he has not displayed that more than a few flashes at the highest level.

History is littered with players who are great ahlers but couldn't take the next step.

Take the next step, Ville.

Yes he does need to show up.ready to earn a spot. That is a given. What I was getting at is he's done everything possible outside the NHL to get an opportunity.

He also needs to play his game which in the AHL is a assertive two-way puck moving game. He needs to get rid of the tentative play he's exhibited in the show and play with confidence.

The coach needs to allow him to make mistakes much like how he allowed Snerg to do so as he found his footing.

 

[Jet]

Yes he does need to show up.ready to earn a spot. That is a given. What I was getting at is he's done everything possible outside the NHL to get an opportunity.

He also needs to play his game which in the AHL is a assertive two-way puck moving game. He needs to get rid of the tentative play he's exhibited in the show and play with confidence.

The coach needs to allow him to make mistakes much like how he allowed Snerg to do so as he found his footing.

I think sambergs baseline was much higher, in the fact that though he made mistakes, his overall play was contributing more positively.

Heinola seemed to be overthinking everything and making poor reads and decisions. Stuff like gambling when he was last man back, tentativeness at the offensive blueline, etc. He wasn't making up for it with a decent defensive baseline.

He just didn't seem mentally mature enough

 

[scelaton]

Yes he does need to show up.ready to earn a spot. That is a given. What I was getting at is he's done everything possible outside the NHL to get an opportunity.

He also needs to play his game which in the AHL is a assertive two-way puck moving game. He needs to get rid of the tentative play he's exhibited in the show and play with confidence.

The coach needs to allow him to make mistakes much like how he allowed Snerg to do so as he found his footing.

This has been discussed to death--and I think you agree-- but Ville simply has not been given a long enough opportunity in the past 4 seasons to overcome that tentativeness and strut his stuff. He's never played more than 12 games in a single season and many of us have been saying a longer sample size is necessary.

Samberg was older when he came here from the NCAA and didn't break out till this past season, when was 23, and given a prolonged stretch to overcome his mistakes.

I am assuming that real opportunity will finally be offered Ville this year. It had better, if they are serious about D&D.

 

[Jack7222]

I think sambergs baseline was much higher, in the fact that though he made mistakes, his overall play was contributing more positively.

Heinola seemed to be overthinking everything and making poor reads and decisions. Stuff like gambling when he was last man back, tentativeness at the offensive blueline, etc. He wasn't making up for it with a decent defensive baseline.

He just didn't seem mentally mature enough

It's odd because remember a few seasons ago, I think Heinola's D1? He looked great in TC and then played on the roster for a handful of games and looked really smooth. People were calling for him to stick way back then.

I agree he hasn't looked very good since, really. But I also think he needs a much longer string of games to be allowed to find his game. I think the yo-yo nature of his callups might be hurting his confidence.

 

[trebendan]

I think the real problem for Heinola is a lack of opportunity. Out of Morrisey, DeMelo, Dillon, Pionk, Samberg and Schmidt, who does he displace? Heinola is waiver exempt so IMO it’s a virtual certainty he’s going down to the Moose again, no matter how well he does in training camp.

 

[10Ducky10]

I think Bones needs to use his full 23 man roster more including the forwards not only the D. We are talking about Heinola so I will talk about it with respect to him.

Ville should get games against opponents that aren't as big/rough this season. If Stanley is on the team, play him or someone else but play Ville when you think he will do well. If he pans out, next year he can start in a full time 3rd pairing role.
Schmidt can be a healthy scratch for some games to give Ville more ice time.

I honestly see him starting on the Moose though...

 

[Flair Hay]

This has been discussed to death--and I think you agree-- but Ville simply has not been given a long enough opportunity in the past 4 seasons to overcome that tentativeness and strut his stuff. He's never played more than 12 games in a single season and many of us have been saying a longer sample size is necessary.

Samberg was older when he came here from the NCAA and didn't break out till this past season, when was 23, and given a prolonged stretch to overcome his mistakes.

I am assuming that real opportunity will finally be offered Ville this year. It had better, if they are serious about D&D.

He will be given the opportunity for sure. But there is only two realistic ways I see him winning a spot:

1) Samberg has a sophomore slump and regressed a bit. And Stanley continues to look bad.

2) He fills in for Pionk or Schmidt when they get hurt and plays better than they were (after Stanley/Chisholm) struggle to fill-in

This year probably isn't the year. I think they give him way more rope this year if he gets a shot. But just a log jam of pros with more experience than him blocking the way.

His time will come.

 

[DannyGallivan]

He will be given the opportunity for sure. But there is only two realistic ways I see him winning a spot:

1) Samberg has a sophomore slump and regressed a bit. And Stanley continues to look bad.

2) He fills in for Pionk or Schmidt when they get hurt and plays better than they were (after Stanley/Chisholm) struggle to fill-in

This year probably isn't the year. I think they give him way more rope this year if he gets a shot. But just a log jam of pros with more experience than him blocking the way.

His time will come.

Samberg may be the most overrated player in Jets history. Heinola and Chisholm deserve a loooong look - especially Chisholm, who has been biding his time more than anybody.

 

[Flair Hay]

Samberg may be the most overrated player in Jets history. Heinola and Chisholm deserve a loooong look - especially Chisholm, who has been biding his time more than anybody.

Not sure what else to say besides we will see how this ages I guess...

Guys like Samberg that are mobile, have size and can defend well are valuable parts to any contender. There is a reason he is playing and will continue to play ahead of Ville and Chisholm.

I like Ville and Chisholm, but you need variety in a D corps. This coming season they offer more of what we already have.

 

[10Ducky10]

Sammy is a hell of a skater.
More experience to guide his tools will really pay off in the next few years if you ask me.
I see him as a 2LHD that plays with a more offensive minded partner. I want to see a mean streak emerge from Sammy. Give the opposition something to think about.

 

[DRW204]

Samberg may be the most overrated player in Jets history. Heinola and Chisholm deserve a loooong look - especially Chisholm, who has been biding his time more than anybody.

I've seen a few of your posts on samberg

Curious what causes you to pause on him and beleive he's overrated, or not good? There's a couple of other young Jets players I'd say are more overrated him. But just curious of your opinion on samberg.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I've seen a few of your posts on samberg

Curious what causes you to pause on him and beleive he's overrated, or not good? There's a couple of other young Jets players I'd say are more overrated him. But just curious of your opinion on samberg.

Middling at best. No offensive upside, just as mistake prone as Stanley, zero physical element to his game.

I think he’s a product of a paradigm created by his supporters two years before he cracked the lineup. He was being drooled over as this future star, to the point that his faults are all but ignored. Kind of like the opposite of Stanley, who was highly criticized five seconds after he was drafted, and his detractors exaggerate his flaws.

Bottom line is that I think we have one or two defenders on the farm who may serve us better than one or two of our current roster d/men.

 

[Jet]

Middling at best. No offensive upside, just as mistake prone as Stanley, zero physical element to his game.

I think he’s a product of a paradigm created by his supporters two years before he cracked the lineup. He was being drooled over as this future star, to the point that his faults are all but ignored. Kind of like the opposite of Stanley, who was highly criticized five seconds after he was drafted, and his detractors exaggerate his flaws.

Bottom line is that I think we have one or two defenders on the farm who may serve us better than one or two of our current roster d/men.

I don't think I could disagree more.

As a youngster, a defenseman being unnoticed is a good thing, because he's not doing what the f*** things.

Maybe not flashy but really solid for a guy with little nhl experience.

I can't wait to see what he layers into his game in the coming years

 

[JetsFan815]

Samberg may be the most overrated player in Jets history. Heinola and Chisholm deserve a loooong look - especially Chisholm, who has been biding his time more than anybody.

I mean the only thing Samberg has done is prove his abilities as a NHL D man who has size and good skating. I agree those guys deserve a look but not at the expense of Samberg who is also a young player and has shown that he is an NHL D man with his play.