The Jets D

[10Ducky10]

I’d pay what we have to pay as he is our first young d to look promising in a long time. But, you seem like you have put a lot more thought into it than me.

Front loading makes it easier for him to sign hopefully.
2m at the end makes it easier to move him if so desired.
I'd do 8 x 4.5 if he would. It could be a steal of a deal in a very few years.
6m
6m
6m
5m
4m
3m
3m
3m
I know it's not like Chevy but I would throw in 2m signing bonuses as part of the first 3 years's salaries to further entice him to sign.
Getting him long term for 4 or so AAV would be a really good move for the D corps.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Front loading makes it easier for him to sign hopefully.
2m at the end makes it easier to move him if so desired.
I'd do 8 x 4.5 if he would. It could be a steal of a deal in a very few years.
6m
6m
6m
5m
4m
3m
3m
3m
I know it's not like Chevy but I would throw in 2m signing bonuses as part of the first 3 years's salaries to further entice him to sign.
Getting him long term for 4 or so AAV would be a really good move for the D corps.

Once again no argument and much smarter than anything I’d think out as I’m useless with numbers. Being a fan is a lot more complex than the level I’m thinking of, which is I like him want to keep him on team for long time as he is the first d we drafted that has worked since Morrissey and Trouba.

 

[DRW204]

Schmidt went from playing a lot of top pair with Morrissey to anchoring 3rd pair. So he got pretty good results. Pionk would do a lo better if we could play him as a 3rd pair guy. But then Schmidt would suck more. Lol.

Schmidt has always been fine with Dillon though. 21-22 and 22-23. even w/ morrissey they were a solid pairing in 21-22.

this past year defensively
(entire league)

our pairings sorted by xGA

their GF/60 stunk however id attribute the it more on the fwds finishing rather than Dmen.

idk i think schmidt gets too much hate on this board. he and samberg were a v good pairing, he has shown out real well next to dillon. at the end of the day this team will likely have a near-6M RHD (Pionk or Schmidt).... id propose play samberg-schmidt the higher/critical minutes and pionk less (just basically swap the two pairs in mins/role)

 

[Gil Fisher]

Morrissey Demelo
Samberg Pionk
Dillon Schmidt

?

 

[RRenegade]

Looking at our future blue line, I see two solid pieces in Morrissey and Samberg and some that we are just stuck with for now (Pionk, Schmidt) that leaves Dillon and Demelo as free agents after the season who will be likely leaving. While I like some of the things each bring, I don't see either as being much better than 3rd pair defencemen. (If Demelo wants to extend, sign him)
That leaves us grooming Heinola & Chisholm for #3 LD while needing size in general with only Samberg having size and still needing depth on the right side.

At minimum, Stanley & Dillon need to go with a RD coming back somehow (Dumba?)
Jets should have traded both at the deadline when there was a big market for the type!

 

[Flair Hay]

Schmidt has always been fine with Dillon though. 21-22 and 22-23. even w/ morrissey they were a solid pairing in 21-22.

this past year defensively
(entire league)View attachment 726317

our pairings sorted by xGA
View attachment 726318

their GF/60 stunk however id attribute the it more on the fwds finishing rather than Dmen.

idk i think schmidt gets too much hate on this board. he and samberg were a v good pairing, he has shown out real well next to dillon. at the end of the day this team will likely have a near-6M RHD (Pionk or Schmidt).... id propose play samberg-schmidt the higher/critical minutes and pionk less (just basically swap the two pairs in mins/role)

Good research. Hard to argue with the results. Looks like Schmidt has done great as 2nd and 3rd pair.

I still think Schmidt is a good player of which we have too many of the same type. But this was encouraging data to see.

Points towards the Jets issues defensively being Pionk played more than he should be. He stepped up pretty admirably in the playoffs. Slotting him down may get better performance out of him in the time he does play as well.

 

[DRW204]

pionk def tried hard in the POs. and in a game where most of the team mailed it in i thought he atleast showed up in game-5.

imo short of any trades

morrissey-demelo
samberg-schmidt
dillon-pionk

would be the personnel group i go with. i still like dillon a lot in a 2nd pair role w/ schmidt though, however, samberg needs to start getting those reps. if down in games and need an offensive boost you can play pionk a bit more w/ morrissey.

Good research. Hard to argue with the results. Looks like Schmidt has done great as 2nd and 3rd pair.

I still think Schmidt is a good player of which we have too many of the same type. But this was encouraging data to see.

Points towards the Jets issues defensively being Pionk played more than he should be. He stepped up pretty admirably in the playoffs. Slotting him down may get better performance out of him in the time he does play as well.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Good research. Hard to argue with the results. Looks like Schmidt has done great as 2nd and 3rd pair.

I still think Schmidt is a good player of which we have too many of the same type. But this was encouraging data to see.

Points towards the Jets issues defensively being Pionk played more than he should be. He stepped up pretty admirably in the playoffs. Slotting him down may get better performance out of him in the time he does play as well.

I think this is the key.

Pionk is not a top 2 and perhaps not even a top 4 D at this point -- unless what has ailed him for the past 2 seasons is somehow sorted out. But he's played like one, which magnifies the impact of his deficiencies. Schmidt is no longer played one, which minimizes the impact of his.

The problem is that we now have zero elite 2 RHD, two who are ideally suited to bottom pair duties, both making around 6 million, and 1 who can manage top 4 but is now approaching the wrong end of the aging curve.

Schmidt was always a risk given his recent form, salary and term, and Pionk was a risk based on the returns to date. But the org had wanted to bring in Schmidt for a while, and had to make good on Pionk because Trouba trade. So here we are.

At the same time, we haven't moved Dillon, who fills an actual need and has played up to his contract, and have 3 and maybe 4 LHD in the bullpen -- depending on whether Stan is extended (!) or Capo kept up with the Jets.

We have an expensive, inefficient D corps, with Samberg as the only impactful D we've drafted ourselves since JMo. It isn't like any of this is news, but I think the present state of the Jets D is a classic example of the org's habit of deferring necessary moves until they can't be deferred any longer.

Samberg needs signing, Pionk needs fixing, Stan/ Capo need trading, Chisholm/ Heinola need playing or moving.

Chevy's statement that this will "sort itself out" doesn't fill me with confidence, given the llama's breakfast the D has been in for 4-5 years now.

 

[Flair Hay]

I think this is the key.

Pionk is not a top 2 and perhaps not even a top 4 D at this point -- unless what has ailed him for the past 2 seasons is somehow sorted out. But he's played like one, which magnifies the impact of his deficiencies. Schmidt is no longer played one, which minimizes the impact of his.

The problem is that we now have zero elite 2 RHD, two who are ideally suited to bottom pair duties, both making around 6 million, and 1 who can manage top 4 but is now approaching the wrong end of the aging curve.

Schmidt was always a risk given his recent form, salary and term, and Pionk was a risk based on the returns to date. But the org had wanted to bring in Schmidt for a while, and had to make good on Pionk because Trouba trade. So here we are.

At the same time, we haven't moved Dillon, who fills an actual need and has played up to his contract, and have 3 and maybe 4 LHD in the bullpen -- depending on whether Stan is extended (!) or Capo kept up with the Jets.

We have an expensive, inefficient D corps, with Samberg as the only impactful D we've drafted ourselves since JMo. It isn't like any of this is news, but I think the present state of the Jets D is a classic example of the org's habit of deferring necessary moves until they can't be deferred any longer.

Samberg needs signing, Pionk needs fixing, Stan/ Capo need trading, Chisholm/ Heinola need playing or moving.

Chevy's statement that this will "sort itself out" doesn't fill me with confidence, given the llama's breakfast the D has been in for 4-5 years now.

Yeah agreed on pretty much everything

 

[surixon]

I think this is the key.

Pionk is not a top 2 and perhaps not even a top 4 D at this point -- unless what has ailed him for the past 2 seasons is somehow sorted out. But he's played like one, which magnifies the impact of his deficiencies. Schmidt is no longer played one, which minimizes the impact of his.

The problem is that we now have zero elite 2 RHD, two who are ideally suited to bottom pair duties, both making around 6 million, and 1 who can manage top 4 but is now approaching the wrong end of the aging curve.

Schmidt was always a risk given his recent form, salary and term, and Pionk was a risk based on the returns to date. But the org had wanted to bring in Schmidt for a while, and had to make good on Pionk because Trouba trade. So here we are.

At the same time, we haven't moved Dillon, who fills an actual need and has played up to his contract, and have 3 and maybe 4 LHD in the bullpen -- depending on whether Stan is extended (!) or Capo kept up with the Jets.

We have an expensive, inefficient D corps, with Samberg as the only impactful D we've drafted ourselves since JMo. It isn't like any of this is news, but I think the present state of the Jets D is a classic example of the org's habit of deferring necessary moves until they can't be deferred any longer.

Samberg needs signing, Pionk needs fixing, Stan/ Capo need trading, Chisholm/ Heinola need playing or moving.

Chevy's statement that this will "sort itself out" doesn't fill me with confidence, given the llama's breakfast the D has been in for 4-5 years now.

It all comes down to Pionk. If he could be upgraded our d comes together nicely. We have players who can fill every other spot in the dcore and perform well in those roles.

Pionk just sinks our second pairing which is an issue.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Looking at our future blue line, I see two solid pieces in Morrissey and Samberg and some that we are just stuck with for now (Pionk, Schmidt) that leaves Dillon and Demelo as free agents after the season who will be likely leaving. While I like some of the things each bring, I don't see either as being much better than 3rd pair defencemen. (If Demelo wants to extend, sign him)
That leaves us grooming Heinola & Chisholm for #3 LD while needing size in general with only Samberg having size and still needing depth on the right side.

At minimum, Stanley & Dillon need to go with a RD coming back somehow (Dumba?)
Jets should have traded both at the deadline when there was a big market for the type!

I don't see what this solves. You lose size on the left and add it on the right without actually creating any room for that player.

Imo Pionk is the guy who does the least for us relative to his salary on the right. I would have liked us to pay a bit to send him to Chicago maybe, but I think they're probably all good on reaching the floor now.

 

[DRW204]

I don't see what this solves. You lose size on the left and add it on the right without actually creating any room for that player.

Imo Pionk is the guy who does the least for us relative to his salary on the right. I would have liked us to pay a bit to send him to Chicago maybe, but I think they're probably all good on reaching the floor now.

The time to have trade him was prior to FA.

Think now its gonna be really difficult.

I didn't think there was a high % chance of Pionk being moved anyway. He seems to be a big locker-room guy that teammates like and that seems to be a highlighted trait among the team right now.

 

[Whileee]

Jets really need to hope that Pionk bounces back. His play has declined the past two seasons, with some rumours of lingering health issues. He seems to have taken a downturn after the Spezza knee.

The Jets have seen another D bounce back after a couple of declining seasons, to the point that some wanted him left available for the Kraken draft.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It all comes down to Pionk. If he could be upgraded our d comes together nicely. We have players who can fill every other spot in the dcore and perform well in those roles.

Pionk just sinks our second pairing which is an issue.

I would prefer it if we could move out Pionk and replace him with a legit 1st pair RHD. Should cost about the same as Pionk. Pushes DeMelo down. He could play 2RD with either Snerg or Dillon. Or he could play 3RD with either. I think there is a case for playing Dillon & Schmidt together regardless of which pair they are on.

But I would also be happy getting a slightly lesser RHD who would play 2nd pair while DeMelo stays with JMo.

Exactly how we move Pionk is anybody's guess. With retention he should be tradeable. He did score 10 G, 33 pts last year.

 

[surixon]

Jets really need to hope that Pionk bounces back. His play has declined the past two seasons, with some rumours of lingering health issues. He seems to have taken a downturn after the Spezza knee.

The Jets have seen another D bounce back after a couple of declining seasons, to the point that some wanted him left available for the Kraken draft.
View attachment 727467View attachment 727468

The issue with Pionk is that 3 of his 5 full seasons resemble the player he was last year. Whereas JoMo has 5 of 7 seasons played at a high level.

Now maybe injuries have hampered him a bit but it's looking like the Canadian division year was an outlier.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The issue with Pionk is that 3 of his 5 full seasons resemble the player he was last year. Whereas JoMo has 5 of 7 seasons played at a high level.

Now maybe injuries have hampered him a bit but it's looking like the Canadian division year was an outlier.

True - though Pionk stepped up in the PO.
But I think that fact just helps in the trade talks when we retain 30% on Pionk. I wish.

 

[10Ducky10]

Pionk's AAV is 5.875m but his actual salary left is 7.5m and 6m. That makes it even harder to trade.
I'd sooner move Schmidt, his 5.95m for a 3RHD is a bit pricey.

 

[DRW204]

Hmm which one was the contract year

 

[BoneDocUK]

Hmm which one was the contract year
View attachment 727476

Yep.

I'm not sure the stat has been invented than fully captures the utter chaos Neal can generate through an entire five-man unit when he's Pionking in his purest form. WTFs/60, JumpScares/60, GoalieDiaper/60...

He has been weak to poor to putrid for most of the past 2 seasons. And yet he continues to be rolled out in the top 4 in all situations as if he's the sturdy, stable, minute-munching D he has infrequently been, making pretty much everyone he plays with worse.

Why isn't he stapled to the third pairing, given the contract and performance? Are the coaches seeing some version of Pionk unavailable to us poor plebes? Or is the contract/ Troubaosity of his origin story determining usage?

I was a big Pionk supporter for the early years. But over the last few years I have barely made it through some vintage WTFPionk shifts without braining the telly. Maybe this is the season his mystery ailment is sorted and he stops playing like shyte. Or, that adverse impact might be limited by sheltering him as he likely should have been sheltered for years.

But this is looking more and more like a diabolical contract that, along with Schmidt (who I like as a player, but not at that $/term) is likely limiting D options for the Jets for 2 more years.

Maybe we can convince Pionk that every year is a contract year?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Pionk's AAV is 5.875m but his actual salary left is 7.5m and 6m. That makes it even harder to trade.
I'd sooner move Schmidt, his 5.95m for a 3RHD is a bit pricey.

One or the other. There are pros and cons to each. The real problem is 11.825 mil for the pair. That and between them they block any better RHD.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Yep.

I'm not sure the stat has been invented than fully captures the utter chaos Neal can generate through an entire five-man unit when he's Pionking in his purest form. WTFs/60, JumpScares/60, GoalieDiaper/60...

He has been weak to poor to putrid for most of the past 2 seasons. And yet he continues to be rolled out in the top 4 in all situations as if he's the sturdy, stable, minute-munching D he has infrequently been, making pretty much everyone he plays with worse.

Why isn't he stapled to the third pairing, given the contract and performance? Are the coaches seeing some version of Pionk unavailable to us poor plebes? Or is the contract/ Troubaosity of his origin story determining usage?

I was a big Pionk supporter for the early years. But over the last few years I have barely made it through some vintage WTFPionk shifts without braining the telly. Maybe this is the season his mystery ailment is sorted and he stops playing like shyte. Or, that adverse impact might be limited by sheltering him as he likely should have been sheltered for years.

But this is looking more and more like a diabolical contract that, along with Schmidt (who I like as a player, but not at that $/term) is likely limiting D options for the Jets for 2 more years.

Maybe we can convince Pionk that every year is a contract year?

The bolded gets my vote for description of the month!

 

[Howard Chuck]

It all comes down to Pionk. If he could be upgraded our d comes together nicely. We have players who can fill every other spot in the dcore and perform well in those roles.

Pionk just sinks our second pairing which is an issue.

I think most of you know hockey stats better than me, but my hope is that Heinola could take the place of Pionk. We don't lose any size, but possibly end up with a better player and definitely cheaper.....

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yep.

I'm not sure the stat has been invented than fully captures the utter chaos Neal can generate through an entire five-man unit when he's Pionking in his purest form. WTFs/60, JumpScares/60, GoalieDiaper/60...

He has been weak to poor to putrid for most of the past 2 seasons. And yet he continues to be rolled out in the top 4 in all situations as if he's the sturdy, stable, minute-munching D he has infrequently been, making pretty much everyone he plays with worse.

Why isn't he stapled to the third pairing, given the contract and performance? Are the coaches seeing some version of Pionk unavailable to us poor plebes? Or is the contract/ Troubaosity of his origin story determining usage?

I was a big Pionk supporter for the early years. But over the last few years I have barely made it through some vintage WTFPionk shifts without braining the telly. Maybe this is the season his mystery ailment is sorted and he stops playing like shyte. Or, that adverse impact might be limited by sheltering him as he likely should have been sheltered for years.

But this is looking more and more like a diabolical contract that, along with Schmidt (who I like as a player, but not at that $/term) is likely limiting D options for the Jets for 2 more years.

Maybe we can convince Pionk that every year is a contract year?

Leave the pairings alone but swap Dillon-Pionk to 3rd pair, Snerg-Schmidt to 2nd. Not a solution but an incremental improvement.

Of course you know it won't happen that way. Snerg will switch pairs with Dillon and the right side will be unchanged.

 

[sipowicz]

Morrissey Demelo
Samberg Pionk
Dillon Schmidt

?

The D that wasn't quite good enough but hell yeah lets do the same thing once again!

 

[DRW204]

I think most of you know hockey stats better than me, but my hope is that Heinola could take the place of Pionk. We don't lose any size, but possibly end up with a better player and definitely cheaper.....

he is certainly cheaper. however he hasn't shown to be any better as of yet. multiple coaches now have 0 sustained trust in him. for the high rate of GA Jets allow when Pionk's on the ice, the jets are much worse w/ Heinola