The Jarmo Thread

[Viqsi]

See how I dropped out of this thread and everything just worked itself out?

That's some next-level modding right there.

You're just trying to take credit for my hard work.

 

[BB88]

I fully acknowledge the great job Jarmo did. He has some great instincts. I said he reacts very well. I just don’t see a plan that leads to this team a Cup. I don’t see any plan. Maybe he has a plan I so fundamentally disagree with that I am giving him the benefit of the doubt by thinking he has no plan. I hope we fire him, another team (in the Western Conference) hires him, and he does a good job for that team. I also hope we replace him with someone who can lead this team to a Cup. I have no malice. If Jarmo isn’t fired, I hope he does a great job with the CBJ. I am not going to burn a jersey or start cheering for another team. I just think things are not as rosy as others believe, and I think it is time to change leadership. Is that so hard to understand?

Why they aren’t?

The problem Columbus has had is lack of consistency, continuity.
You’ve always been living on the edge.

Now they have:
Gaudreau signed for 6 more years
Werenski signed for 5 more years
Jenner signed for 3 more years
Laine signed for 3 more years.

Those veterans under controll give you stability and something to build on. That’s something the past ”promising” Columbus rosters have been missing.

On top of it they have tried to address both C and Dprospect pools moving forward at the draft and their recent drafting looks really good. Johnson looks the part for legit star player, Jiricek is a franchise prospect with already multiple pro seasons under his belt.

Now add them together and you have a core of

Gaudreau- Johnson- Laine
Werenski- Jiricek

Under teams controll, no need to wonder will x or y leave in a year or two, unlike in the past. All players still either in their prime or not even close to starting their prime.

When have they had a core as good looking as that in the past where you’ve been able to build something longterm around them?

Now add all the rest of the promising young players they have, with the cap space/situation they have(in a really healthy spot) and the top5 pick you are most likely looking at and what looks so terrifying?

Their plan has clearly been target and add high end talent, rebuild the talent pool and figure out the defense& C longterm via draft.
It’s only year 2 in rebuild, no rebuild is done in a year

 

[CBJx614]

Their plan has clearly been target and add high end talent, rebuild the talent pool and figure out the defense& C longterm via draft.
It’s only year 2 in rebuild, no rebuild is done in a year

I just fail to see how someone can NOT see the plan. I understand people might not agree with the current plan, but to suggest there's not one at all is crazy.

We lost our #1C and #1D and then proceeded to take 2 center prospects with 2 top 15 picks and 3 defenseman with the other 3 1st round picks.

It's pretty clear we are trying to find those cornerstone pieces through the draft. Something Jarmo has talked about doing since he got here. He previously had those pieces, and while it sucks he wasn't able to retain Jones and PLD he was essentially able to parlay them into replacement pieces. Yes, it sucks he wasn't able to make a 1 for 1 deal for a NHL ready 1D/1C, but maybe we as Jackets fans are spoiled as we've been able to trade and sign for some pretty big names over the last decade, but if you truly want to build a long term core you need to draft them, otherwise you are creating a hole by trading to fill another. These things take time.


And of ALL the drafts we could've bottomed out on, we just happened to bottom out on a generational heavy top end. Things could be much worse.

 

[BB88]

I just fail to see how someone can NOT see the plan. I understand people might not agree with the current plan, but to suggest there's not one at all is crazy.

We lost our #1C and #1D and then proceeded to take 2 center prospects with 2 top 15 picks and 3 defenseman with the other 3 1st round picks.

It's pretty clear we are trying to find those cornerstone pieces through the draft. Something Jarmo has talked about doing since he got here. He previously had those pieces, and while it sucks he wasn't able to retain Jones and PLD he was essentially able to parlay them into replacement pieces. Yes, it sucks he wasn't able to make a 1 for 1 deal for a NHL ready 1D/1C, but maybe we as Jackets fans are spoiled as we've been able to trade and sign for some pretty big names over the last decade, but if you truly want to build a long term core you need to draft them, otherwise you are creating a hole by trading to fill another. These things take time.


And of ALL the drafts we could've bottomed out on, we just happened to bottom out on a generational heavy top end. Things could be much worse.

So far looking back they’ve drafted about as well as you could hope for in the last 2 drafts and have 2 1st round picks for this draft as well.
As well as having being able to add a true superstar from the market.

Johnson could very well end up being the PLD replacement and even better than PLD.
Jiricek could very well be the Jones replacement. That’s a helluva 12 months if you can draft the 2 most important positions in hockey.

& they’ve clearly gone for the higher upside on their later picks as well.

With a top4 pick especially I don’t know why/how anyone wouldn’t be excited about the future

 

[Cowumbus]

I just fail to see how someone can NOT see the plan. I understand people might not agree with the current plan, but to suggest there's not one at all is crazy.

I think their plan was to “compete” this year. We saw over the first 15 games that the roster Jarmo built had serious flaws.


We were “lucky” to be this bad this year, mostly attributed to injuries.

 

[BB88]

I think their plan was to “compete” this year. We saw over the first 15 games that the roster Jarmo built had serious flaws.


We were “lucky” to be this bad this year, mostly attributed to injuries.

What leads you to think they thought they could compete?

Also it took like 8 games for them to have lost Werenski, Laine, Voracek to injuries.
We never got to see the real team

 

[Cowumbus]

What leads you to think they thought they could compete?

Also it took like 8 games for them to have lost Werenski, Laine, Voracek to injuries.
We never got to see the real team

Are you being serious? Jarmo said that basically all last off-season.

He basically said as much again in an interview with LeBrun:
“I don’t know if anything more could have gone wrong than has,” Kekalainen said. “We were one game under .500 last year. We add Johnny Gaudreau. We were a year more experienced this year. And (when) we got off to a really bad start, 3-9, with a young group, you saw the confidence shrivel a little bit.

“Then then injuries hit. In order to climb out of that 3-9 start, we basically had no chance with the injuries we had. It’s not an excuse, but it’s a real reason when you lose your top defenseman and some other top players.”

 

[MoeBartoli]

People keep saying this but it seems the NHL thinks otherwise

So Jarmo and the CBJ now have two playoff series wins under their belt.

 

[CBJx614]

So Jarmo and the CBJ now have two playoff series wins under their belt.

That's double the amount of playoff appearances previous FOs had combined.

 

[Viqsi]

I think their plan was to “compete” this year. We saw over the first 15 games that the roster Jarmo built had serious flaws.


We were “lucky” to be this bad this year, mostly attributed to injuries.

Competitive Development Season. Give more time to KJ and Sillinger and let them continue to develop and become the guys we need. That was the plan going in. Playoffs weren't expected but would be a nice ahead-of-schedule bonus.

Then injuries.

 

[BB88]

Are you being serious? Jarmo said that basically all last off-season.

He basically said as much again in an interview with LeBrun:
“I don’t know if anything more could have gone wrong than has,” Kekalainen said. “We were one game under .500 last year. We add Johnny Gaudreau. We were a year more experienced this year. And (when) we got off to a really bad start, 3-9, with a young group, you saw the confidence shrivel a little bit.

“Then then injuries hit. In order to climb out of that 3-9 start, we basically had no chance with the injuries we had. It’s not an excuse, but it’s a real reason when you lose your top defenseman and some other top players.”

So you are basing everything on what Gm says to public?

He’s not going to come out in October and say yeah fans we are going to ..ck.

That’s basic Gm talk.

Of course they didn’t expect to be this bad& everything has gone about as bad as they could.
That still doesn’t mean they expected to be able to match against top teams in the East.

They lost their 1C and 1D the previous year and had 5 1st round picks in 12 months span.
They were rebuilding and very well knew it.

They knew Jiricek was 18y and he wasn’t going to make an impact, they knew Johnson was going to be a 19y rookie, Sillinger was going to be 19y.
Every Gm know rebuilds take years

 

[stevo61]

So you are basing everything on what Gm says to public?

He’s not going to come out in October and say yeah fans we are going to ..ck.

That’s basic Gm talk.

Of course they didn’t expect to be this bad& everything has gone about as bad as they could.
That still doesn’t mean they expected to be able to match against top teams in the East.

They lost their 1C and 1D the previous year and had 5 1st round picks in 12 months span.
They were rebuilding and very well knew it.

They knew Jiricek was 18y and he wasn’t going to make an impact, they knew Johnson was going to be a 19y rookie, Sillinger was going to be 19y.
Every Gm know rebuilds take years

NY had to write a letter to their fans saying what the plan was. It took a few years and they had guys force their way there including a Norris caliber defenseman and won 2 draft lotteries

 

[Cowumbus]

So you are basing everything on what Gm says to public?

Moving the goalposts?

He’s not going to come out in October and say yeah fans we are going to ..ck.

That’s basic Gm talk.

He thought they would be competitive.

Of course they didn’t expect to be this bad&

That’s because the roster was bot built well.

everything has gone about as bad as they could.
That still doesn’t mean they expected to be able to match against top teams in the East.

Nobody thought that..

They lost their 1C and 1D the previous year and had 5 1st round picks in 12 months span.
They were rebuilding and very well knew it.

They never said that. It was always phrased as a re-tool. You don’t sigh Johnny Gaudreau for a rebuild.

They knew Jiricek was 18y and he wasn’t going to make an impact, they knew Johnson was going to be a 19y rookie, Sillinger was going to be 19y.
Every Gm know rebuilds take years

Rebuild or re-tool? I distinctly remember them saying this was not a rebuild.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

They never said that. It was always phrased as a re-tool. You don’t sigh Johnny Gaudreau for a rebuild.

you don't not sign johnny gaudreau if johnny gaudreau wants to sign, regardless of whether or not you're in a rebuild.

Rebuild or re-tool? I distinctly remember them saying this was not a rebuild.

i get that the rangers said outright that they were rebuilding but in a small market a GM isn't just going to say "hey we're gonna be bad this year" – the org's revenue comes from ticket sales.

it's all a moot point though because this team wouldn't have 56 points right now if they didn't face a comically absurd amount of injuries.

 

[BB88]

Moving the goalposts?

He thought they would be competitive.

That’s because the roster was bot built well.

Nobody thought that..

They never said that. It was always phrased as a re-tool. You don’t sigh Johnny Gaudreau for a rebuild.

Rebuild or re-tool? I distinctly remember them saying this was not a rebuild.

So again you are going off by everything they say to the public?

They had to trade PLD& Jones, on top of having lost Panarin& Bob a bit earlier and had 5 1st round picks and didn’t think they were rebuilding?
Got it.

C’moon now, Gm’s love to say different things to media that what they actually think

They had an 18y Jiricek, 19y Sillinger& 19y Johnson as their new hopefull cornestone players, zero Gm’s will expect to compete with that that following season.

They thought they’d be better than they were this year, everybody thought so as well.
Injuries made it impossible to see where they could have been.

Buffalo lost 8 games in a row at the start of season and see where they are today. We never got to see what the lineup had because the lineup was never on the ice


Edit, and they signed Gaudreau because he became available.
That doesn’t change them starting a rebuild a year earlier

 

[Cowumbus]

you don't not sign johnny gaudreau if johnny gaudreau wants to sign, regardless of whether or not you're in a rebuild.

i get that the rangers said outright that they were rebuilding but in a small market a GM isn't just going to say "hey we're gonna be bad this year" – the org's revenue comes from ticket sales.

it's all a moot point though because this team wouldn't have 56 points right now if they didn't face a comically absurd amount of injuries.

So again you are going off by everything they say to the public?

They had to trade PLD& Jones, on top of having lost Panarin& Bob a bit earlier and had 5 1st round picks and didn’t think they were rebuilding?
Got it.

C’moon now, Gm’s love to say different things to media that what they actually think

They had an 18y Jiricek, 19y Sillinger& 19y Johnson as their new hopefull cornestone players, zero Gm’s will expect to compete with that that following season.

They thought they’d be better than they were this year, everybody thought so as well.
Injuries made it impossible to see where they could have been.

Buffalo lost 8 games in a row at the start of season and see where they are today. We never got to see what the lineup had because the lineup was never on the ice


Edit, and they signed Gaudreau because he became available.
That doesn’t change them starting a rebuild a year earlier

You guys are failing to grasp the point. If Jarmo’s plan was to rebuild, you don’t do that by signing a franchise winger, and trying to be better.

If he was actually trying to rebuild, why would he want to win more games vs fewer…

You do not rebuild by collecting 14OA picks.

 

[BB88]

NY had to write a letter to their fans saying what the plan was. It took a few years and they had guys force their way there including a Norris caliber defenseman and won 2 draft lotteries

Columbus isn’t New York and Columbus never went into full on fire sale rebuild like the Hawks.
It still doesn’t change that they were rebuilding and this is a rebuild.

Absolutely silly to think the management saw all that talent leave out the door and not realize what’s up.

Follow the league and you see regularly Gm’s talk utter garbage.
Whether it’s them describing a basic player they’ve signed to hype them up, wherher the guy they picked at 4 or 5 was actually 1st overall on their list, whether they are going to be competitive when everyone knows the lineup is full of holes.

 

[BB88]

You guys are failing to grasp the point. If Jarmo’s plan was to rebuild, you don’t do that by signing a franchise winger, and trying to be better.

If he was actually trying to rebuild, why would he want to win more games vs fewer…

You do not rebuild by collecting 14OA picks.

What are you even talking about?

They had 5 1st round picks, they had sold Jones/PLD/Savard/Foligno for assets.
That is what rebuilding teams do, gain as much assets you can for players that won’t be with you longterm.

They signed a superstar because a superstar wanted to sign in Columbus. You don’t pass on that and it still doesn’t change the fact that it’s a rebuild.

Yet again we are in another year where they have 2 1st round picks and 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds.
So in total 7 1st round picks from 2021-2023.
Again exactly what a rebuilding team should do and what rebuilding teams do.

& rebuilding teams can and should take advantage of the cap and they did with Gaudreau.

Gaudreau even with a development year fits into the plan moving forward. It was a no brainer

 

[Cowumbus]

What are you even talking about?

They had 5 1st round picks, they had sold Jones/PLD/Savard/Foligno for assets.
That is what rebuilding teams do, gain as much assets you can for players that won’t be with you longterm.

They signed a superstar because a superstar wanted to sign in Columbus. You don’t pass on that and it still doesn’t change the fact that it’s a rebuild.

Yet again we are in another year where they have 2 1st round picks and 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds.
So in total 7 1st round picks from 2021-2023.
Again exactly what a rebuilding team should do and what rebuilding teams do.

& rebuilding teams can and should take advantage of the cap and they did with Gaudreau.

Gaudreau even with a development year fits into the plan moving forward. It was a no brainer

Jarmo tried to move our 12OA 1st at the draft for a defenseman BEFORE this season. Chychrun declined.

 

[CBJx614]

You guys are failing to grasp the point. If Jarmo’s plan was to rebuild, you don’t do that by signing a franchise winger, and trying to be better.

If he was actually trying to rebuild, why would he want to win more games vs fewer…

You do not rebuild by collecting 14OA picks.

I look at it like it was a retool when we were trying to build around PLD and Jones. But the moment PLD wanted out and Jones was traded (whatever the order was it's all hazy to me ) that instantly signals a rebuild. We turned core pieces into picks. You can't retool around picks. Gaudreau most definitely sped that process up, but it was still a rebuild. With or without Gaudreau.

 

[BB88]

Jarmo tried to move our 12OA 1st at the draft for a defenseman BEFORE this season. Chychrun declined.

So?

Are you possible confused with a full on fire sale rebuild?
Where anyone that has value will be sold and it will take atleast 5 years before they’ll try to improve the roster?

Columbus is trying to do a ”clearn” rebuild and avoid the full on fire sale.

They’ve tried to draft the PLD replcement, they have tried to draft the Jones replacement. Yet everyone in the World knows they are/were too young to carry a team this year and it’s a development year.

& with the assets they’ve acquired it’s absolutely smart to try to add longterm pieces into the new core.
Because it’s a rebuild

 

[Cowumbus]

So?

Are you possible confused with a full on fire sale rebuild?
Where anyone that has value will be sold and it will take atleast 5 years before they’ll try to improve the roster?

Columbus is trying to do a ”clean” rebuild and avoid the full on fire sale.

So a re-tool. Which is what Jarmo had said the entire time.

They’ve tried to draft the PLD replcement, they have tried to draft the Jones replacement. Yet everyone in the World knows they are/were too young to carry a team this year and it’s a development year.

& with the assets they’ve acquired it’s absolutely smart to try to add longterm pieces into the new core.
Because it’s a rebuild

Bruh

 

[Viqsi]

They never said that. It was always phrased as a re-tool. You don’t sigh Johnny Gaudreau for a rebuild.

The Rangers were in the middle of a similar process when they signed Panarin. The idea was one of "we don't actually need him now per se, but we'll want him or someone like him when the time comes and he won't be available later." Same idea applied with Gaudreau.

 

[Viqsi]

You guys are failing to grasp the point. If Jarmo’s plan was to rebuild, you don’t do that by signing a franchise winger, and trying to be better.

If he was actually trying to rebuild, why would he want to win more games vs fewer…

Probably because he already had four high quality prospects he thought would be readily able to grow into those roles. We don't know for sure yet, but KJ looks good, Mateychuk's fine, and Jiricek looks really promising. Sillinger hasn't done as well but there's still time yet.

 

[EspenK]

The Rangers were in the middle of a similar process when they signed Panarin. The idea was one of "we don't actually need him now per se, but we'll want him or someone like him when the time comes and he won't be available later." Same idea applied with Gaudreau.

Seems to be right. I'm not a long time Jarmo fan but you can't pass on a guy like Gaudreau if you have the opportunity. Only possible downside would have been if this season had played out diferently and Jackets finished mid-pack and wound up with a pick in the mid-teens.

We'll see how the last couple of drafts plus this one and Gaudreau play out but for now I think Jarmo is on a good track.