The Jarmo Thread

[majormajor]

All that said, it’s not actually about either individual player or about this individual play/reaction, I think it’s a “symptom” of something, or another “red flag” involving the entire team, that others are seemingly dismissing for whatever reasons.

Obviously it is a symptom of frustration that the team sucks. The visible frustration we've seen from the players seems proportionate to how much the team has sucked. It's not out of line with that. They want to win and they are pissed.

The having to respond/clarify what he said was 100% a “joke” on multiple levels. Again, something not “normal”, and yes also imo, clearly showing some sort of issue/problem.

Portzline and that side of the “CBJ media” are no better than Rimer. They focus on the dumbest things, and don’t touch EASY “legitimate” stories.

That said, it being about the players, ISN’T better than it being about the coaches. What type of players do you think are slacking during practice, the younger players?? Or guys with huge cushy contracts??

While you were trashing Porty, it was on his podcast that he talked about how big of a deal it was that Gudbranson had to make that clarification, and how it said very bad things about where this organization is at. He compared the sensitivity of the FO/coaches to when Doug Maclean muzzled Fedorov.

 

[thebus88]

Obviously it is a symptom of frustration that the team sucks. The visible frustration we've seen from the players seems proportionate to how much the team has sucked. It's not out of line with that. They want to win and they are pissed.

Show me another single goal or any video from an NHL game where a player reacts in a similar way, “animated” like that in response to and/or “directed” towards a teammate.

While you were trashing Porty, it was on his podcast that he talked about how big of a deal it was that Gudbranson had to make that clarification, and how it said very bad things about where this organization is at. He compared the sensitivity of the FO/coaches to when Doug Maclean muzzled Fedorov.

Great, and it’s his job to acknowledge these common sense things like that, that both of us and I’m sure plenty of others acknowledged wasn’t a very “healthy” situation/response.

Once again though, did he question or say anything about the players or actual subject that the Gudbranson comments WERE apparently meant for??

Are the coaches/FO “sensitive”, or are they worried about the “sensitivity” of the players that the comments could have been directed towards??

 

[majormajor]

Show me another single goal or any video from an NHL game where a player reacts in a similar way, “animated” like that in response to and/or “directed” towards a teammate.

No.

Great, and it’s his job to acknowledge these common sense things like that, that both of us and I’m sure plenty of others acknowledged wasn’t a very “healthy” situation/response.

Once again though, did he question or say anything about the players or actual subject that the Gudbranson comments WERE apparently meant for??

Are the coaches/FO “sensitive”, or are they worried about the “sensitivity” of the players that the comments could have been directed towards??

He had the same reaction I did, which is that Gudbranson's original comments were the typical veteran wanting to hold the room accountable when focus slips.

Sometimes focus slips in practice, not an extreme rarity. If you privately asked Gudbranson how the practices compare to other bad teams he's been on (he's been on a few!), he might have another time in his career where practices slipped like that.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Show me another single goal or any video from an NHL game where a player reacts in a similar way, “animated” like that in response to and/or “directed” towards a teammate.

Not hockey related but I watched an offensive lineman have some sort of argument with a backup QB on the sideline about Russell Wilson tonight. That team really sucks too.

 

[tunnelvision]

From the Elvis thread:

What bothers me is I see no plan. I can’t identify any strategy during the games. I don’t understand what they were trying to accomplish with the defense before all the injuries. I don’t see a strategy for developing the high draft picks. The only thing I see is hiring ex Jackets and ex Monsters to positions within the organization, and I don’t know if that is the best path to follow. I don’t know what the vision for this team is. I think, especially the last few years, Torts had a vision, but it wasn’t shared by management. Jarmo has done plenty for which he should be commended, but it is time to move on. I don’t know that Larsen has done anything. Let’s clean house and bring in an established hockey mind to build the next phase of the Jackets.

I have similar feelings. Not knowing what the plan is - if there even is one - is easily the most frustrating part following this mess of a team on a daily basis. I think many here like to pretend they know more of Jarmo's alleged "plan" than they really do. Fans overreacting and making semi-baseless assumptions in a situation like this is understandable, but for some reason I don't get as much entertainment by reading them as I used to.

I don't want a new GM or housecleaning just yet. I'll give him another opportunity to demonstrate what they were really envisioning with the retool and make up for his recent roster moves that have appeared as mistakes to me. What he needs to do is to get a 1st plus other futures for Nyquist and Gavrikov, remember to not sign Horvat or any FA to an albatross deal, and somehow upgrade the defense/play without the puck/checking/cycle game over the summer (whether how much of that means new players, coaches or just "growth from within").

 

[Viqsi]

From the Elvis thread:

I have similar feelings. Not knowing what the plan is - if there even is one - is easily the most frustrating part following this mess of a team on a daily basis. I think many here like to pretend they know more of Jarmo's alleged "plan" than they really do. Fans overreacting and making semi-baseless assumptions in a situation like this is understandable, but for some reason I don't get as much entertainment by reading them as I used to.

I don't want a new GM or housecleaning just yet. I'll give him another opportunity to demonstrate what they were really envisioning with the retool and make up for his recent roster moves that have appeared as mistakes to me. What he needs to do is to get a 1st plus other futures for Nyquist and Gavrikov, remember to not sign Horvat or any FA to an albatross deal, and somehow upgrade the defense/play without the puck/checking/cycle game over the summer (whether how much of that means new players, coaches or just "growth from within").

For my part, I don't think I know the plan - I have guesses, but I'm not sure. I've gotten by because the last time I thought he was doing Random Nonsense With No Plan, it abruptly coalesced into something I didn't expect and got us the most accomplished roster in franchise history, so he's got the benefit of the doubt with me. (To the point that I was referring to him as the "Drunken Master of GMing".)

If it doesn't bear fruit in the end, though...

 

[thebus88]

Not hockey related but I watched an offensive lineman have some sort of argument with a backup QB on the sideline about Russell Wilson tonight. That team really sucks too.

I don’t follow football much, and I could be wrong, but aren’t the issues in DEN much more than just them “sucking”/losing? From what I can gather maybe things are a bit “self induced” and turning into whatever they are in DEN because of their raised expectations before the season, but, quite frankly I think this bringing up the Broncos actually helps prove my point.

I’m not saying guys (in football/hockey/sports in general) don’t get heated at times and have back and forth’s, what I’m saying is I’m seeing continuous “red flags” over the last few years, that show actions outside of what is or should be considered “the norm”. Are people in the “NFL community” NOT speaking about an apparent “issue” or “problem” within the team??

There are BAD teams in every (pro) sports leagues in the world. f***, we’ve had some VERY BAD CBJ teams, over multiple seasons. What we NEVER saw or heard about was players arguing with coaches on the bench during games and outward reactions of players essentially “showing up” other players on the ice. Even when the team was bad, most of the time, the ENERGY was different.

The CAMARADERIE is GONE!! And firing Larsen or Lagace isn’t going to change that. Reality is that WHATEVER it is that Jarmo has done to the roster, is responsible.

 

[stevo61]

Colorado clearly should have traded MacKinnon when he yelled at his coach on the bench.

 

[thebus88]

Colorado clearly should have traded MacKinnon when he yelled at his coach on the bench.

Add MacKinnon to the LONG LONG list of players Laine shouldn’t be compared to….

You guys want “advanced stats”….what do you think the “skating strides per 60” numbers are for MacKinnon vs Laine??

 

[stevo61]

Add MacKinnon to the LONG LONG list of players Laine shouldn’t be compared to….

Its cool to glaze over the point of the post as you usually do. But go on and use your usual debate tactic of being the loudest = being correct. I think the last time I remember thinking " hey, he has a point" was probably the Ryan Murray days

 

[thebus88]

Its cool to glaze over the point of the post as you usually do. But go on and use your usual debate tactic of being the loudest = being correct. I think the last time I remember thinking " hey, he has a point" was probably the Ryan Murray days

Loudest??

Add MacKinnon to the LONG LONG list of players Laine shouldn’t be compared to….

Is that better??

To be clear, most of YOU (sorry, you) are the ones that “glaze over” the points of my posts.

If you don’t see the difference in what a player like MacKinnon brings to the ice on a nightly basis over Laine, and why similar actions from each guy would be looked at, perceived, or taken differently from the players, there is a problem.

With my “Laine bias” admittedly in play, I’d be willing to bet that the MacKinnon situation or comments were much more “positive” or “motivational” than whatever smart ass comments I’m assuming Lazy Laine made.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Loudest??

Add MacKinnon to the LONG LONG list of players Laine shouldn’t be compared to….

Is that better??

To be clear, most of YOU (sorry, you) are the ones that “glaze over” the points of my posts.

If you don’t see the difference in what a player like MacKinnon brings to the ice on a nightly basis over Laine, and why similar actions from each guy would be looked at, perceived, or taken differently from the players, there is a problem.

With my “Laine bias” admittedly in play, I’d be willing to bet that the MacKinnon situation or comments were much more “positive” or “motivational” than whatever smart ass comments I’m assuming Lazy Laine made.

You said that a certain behavior was a clear red flag. Someone pointed out another example of that same behavior and you backed off your stance and made it instead about the player and not the behavior.

Which we all know was your point anyway. Just letting you know why points get “glazed over.”

Wennberg-Torts and PLD-Torts are recent examples of on-bench arguments in CBJ. Maybe one of those was actually with Larsen as an assistant? I can’t remember if those were indicative of something larger or just brushed off.

 

[thebus88]

You said that a certain behavior was a clear red flag. Someone pointed out another example of that same behavior and you backed off your stance and made it instead about the player and not the behavior.

Which we all know was your point anyway. Just letting you know why points get “glazed over.”

Wennberg-Torts and PLD-Torts are recent examples of on-bench arguments in CBJ. Maybe one of those was actually with Larsen as an assistant? I can’t remember if those were indicative of something larger or just brushed off.

We have essentially no idea what even occurred between Laine and Larsen/Torts. And I don’t remember exactly the MacKinnon scenario. At the most, I would consider them similar cases, not “the same” behavior.

That said, YES, there’s a HUGE difference between the 2 players in so many different aspects, from their length of time they have been with their teams to what they actually bring to the ice, stylistically and EFFORT wise. MacKinnon should be given much more “leeway” if guilty of the same things as Laine, however, I fully believe the situations aren’t the same and there’s a reason Torts/the coaching staff treated it the way they did.

And what is the 1 other thing Wennberg and Dubois have in common in regards to their time with the CBJ…..it’s over.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

We have essentially no idea what even occurred between Laine and Larsen/Torts. And I don’t remember exactly the MacKinnon scenario. At the most, I would consider them similar cases, not “the same” behavior.

That said, YES, there’s a HUGE difference between the 2 players in so many different aspects, from their length of time they have been with their teams to what they actually bring to the ice, stylistically and EFFORT wise. MacKinnon should be given much more “leeway” if guilty of the same things as Laine, however, I fully believe the situations aren’t the same and there’s a reason Torts/the coaching staff treated it the way they did.

And what is the 1 other thing Wennberg and Dubois have in common in regards to their time with the CBJ…..it’s over.

Agreed. Laine can't carry Nathan's Cup (either of them). MacKinnon was out of line, but he and Bednar cleared the air between them that day. I can't imagine Laine giving a shit near what MacKinnon did in this situation. MacKinnon is a warrior. Laine, well, isn't. LOL.

Landeskog did his best to try to simmer MacKinnon down-and I think he was effective. Along with MacKinnon falling off the bench. LOL. The Avalanche have a real "room" and "leadership". I think Jenner is one of the most valuable members of the CBJ, but he's an understated guy it appears and not a "take charge" type.

Jarmo, in addition to fielding a team which lacks talent, has put together a group without much spirit as well. I'd love to hear Torts give his real opinion of Jarmo and the current CBJ. Jarmo needs to be fired before he does any more damage to the franchise. Along with quack salesman JD.

 

[Viqsi]

We have essentially no idea what even occurred between Laine and Larsen/Torts.

...and yet that lack of knowledge to date hasn't stopped you from repeatedly insisting it further proves your assertions that Laine is the most toxic, cancerous thing ever to put on a Jackets sweater.

 

[Viqsi]

MacKinnon was out of line, but he and Bednar cleared the air between them that day.

Laine and Larsen did the same, but that's being conveniently ignored because of prejudicial presumptions about the people involved. It's more circular reasoning: Laine and Larsen are Bad People because this confrontation happened. And the confrontation happened and is still unresolved because they're Bad People.

 

[thebus88]

Laine and Larsen did the same, but that's being conveniently ignored because of prejudicial presumptions about the people involved. It's more circular reasoning: Laine and Larsen are Bad People because this confrontation happened. And the confrontation happened and is still unresolved because they're Bad People.

Saying they were going to “keep it in the room” (code for not talk about it) or whatever, ISN’T clearing anything up.

I’m not saying either guy is a bad person. What I’m saying is Patrik Laine is probably the last guy and type of player the CBJ should be allotting the amount of cap money they are and that he is not the correct player to lead a team (offensively)
to any sort of playoff success.

 

[thebus88]

Altercation with coach reportedly prompted Patrik Laine's benching

John Tortorella reportedly glued his newly-acquired star to the bench on Monday because he “mouthed off” to a Blue Jackets assistant coach.

sports.yahoo.com

John Tortorella: “But….we’re just disjointed in all areas…quite honestly, on and off the ice”

Sounds similar to Gudbranson and something you don’t hear much from an NHL coach. Of course the easy thing to do in the past would be to blame Torts, but, what’s changed??

What does it mean to be “disjointed” OFF the ice??

Maybe it was time to move away from the actual individual players that made up the “old core”, and yet, still replaced them with the same TYPE of players.

 

[stevo61]

Altercation with coach reportedly prompted Patrik Laine's benching

John Tortorella reportedly glued his newly-acquired star to the bench on Monday because he “mouthed off” to a Blue Jackets assistant coach.

sports.yahoo.com

John Tortorella: “But….we’re just disjointed in all areas…quite honestly, on and off the ice”

Sounds similar to Gudbranson and something you don’t hear much from an NHL coach. Of course the easy thing to do in the past would be to blame Torts, but, what’s changed??

What does it mean to be “disjointed” OFF the ice??

Maybe it was time to move away from the actual individual players that made up the “old core”, and yet, still replaced them with the same TYPE of players.

Could mean many things. Any group struggling like this isnt going to be a bunch of happy dudes, tension and emotions are going to be high. It can be a hard thing to work out of within a particular season.
Also you mention Gudbranson's comments. I take that as a huge shot at Larsen. Was it directed to the players? Sure. But hes the coach leading practice, do something about it. You see Ruff exploding during a Devils practice when they are on a heater or Torts would scratch/bench players and as we know not bite his tongue but Larsen just keeps on keepin on and giving his same boring/scripted interviews and running the same failing system.

 

[thebus88]

You see Ruff exploding during a Devils practice when they are on a heater or Torts would scratch/bench players and as we know not bite his tongue but Larsen just keeps on keepin on and giving his same boring/scripted interviews and running the same failing system.

Larsen doing anything different is what helped the last coach “lose the room” and get fired.

We have 2 coaches doing 2 different things and the same thing resulting from it…

 

[Finner]

Jarmo has his last dance going on. He must succeed at TDL and next offseason. Gavrikov 50% Retained for Edmontons 1st.
Nyquist 50% to anywhere for 2nd or 3rd.

Elvis+CBJ 1st 2024+ Nyquist trade received pick to Anaheim for Gibson

 

[Fro]

Jarmo has his last dance going on. He must succeed at TDL and next offseason. Gavrikov 50% Retained for Edmontons 1st.
Nyquist 50% to anywhere for 2nd or 3rd.

Elvis+CBJ 1st 2024+ Nyquist trade received pick to Anaheim for Gibson

Gibson? Isn't he hurt constantly?

 

[DarkandStormy]

Jarmo has his last dance going on. He must succeed at TDL and next offseason. Gavrikov 50% Retained for Edmontons 1st.
Nyquist 50% to anywhere for 2nd or 3rd.

Elvis+CBJ 1st 2024+ Nyquist trade received pick to Anaheim for Gibson

Gibson has been below league average for 4 years running and you want to give up, possibly, a top 3 pick (plus Elvis, plus a 2nd/3rd) for him? Why?

He costs $1m/season more than Elvis, through 2027, and has a 10-team no trade list.

 

[Columbus Jack]

Jarmo has his last dance going on. He must succeed at TDL and next offseason. Gavrikov 50% Retained for Edmontons 1st.
Nyquist 50% to anywhere for 2nd or 3rd.

Elvis+CBJ 1st 2024+ Nyquist trade received pick to Anaheim for Gibson

Hell to the naw

 

[jonu]

Jarmo has his last dance going on. He must succeed at TDL and next offseason. Gavrikov 50% Retained for Edmontons 1st.
Nyquist 50% to anywhere for 2nd or 3rd.

Elvis+CBJ 1st 2024+ Nyquist trade received pick to Anaheim for Gibson

In order for Jarmo to succeed I am glad you just gave us the recipe for disaster!