Yeah I was going to ask what this person did in front of the cameras to not inspire confidence, and then I realized it isn't pertinent information to how I would evaluate their job performance, so who cares.
The Jarmo Thread
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Yeah I was going to ask what this person did in front of the cameras to not inspire confidence, and then I realized it isn't pertinent information to how I would evaluate their job performance, so who cares.
Last page of this thread taught me we need a GM that has less swag and an AGM that has more swag
Double-Shift Lasse
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BB88
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He has Werenski/Gaudreau/Laine locked up.
He’s build an elite prospect pool in short amount of time.
I don’t see it for him needing to be fired right now when after next season the future should look very bright
If he messes up the next offseason go ahead and fire him but right now he has earned the right to ”finish” his vision.
Gaudreau- Johnson- Laine
Werenski- Jiricek
Tarasov
Is a legit core to keep building around
How can you be mad about him/them finding their potential franchise 1C&1D’s?
That’s like what every team is after and desperate about in every rebuild.
They seem to have done it in 12 months time and that’s somehow a bad thing?
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
See, that's the thing. When you investigate such assertions, you find a lot of circular reasoning. For example, said statement can't apply to Kekalainen and his staff because the players in question are merely KJ and Jiricek, and KJ and Jiricek can't be those players because they were drafted by Kekalainen and his staff and therefore can't possibly be good enough.
BB88
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I’m starting to understand it.
Really takes a lot of twisting and turning on not being extemely happy with drafting Johnson& Jiricek.
Cyclones Rock
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1) You're not supposed to whiff on 5 and 6 OA picks every time. Who knows how Johnson and Jiricek will turn out in the long run.
2) No finishes higher than 3rd in 10 years at the helm.
3) One playoff series victory in 10 years.
4) 4th longest tenure as GM.
Justifying this performance could easily be considered twisting and turning. Jarmo would have been fired by 31 of 32 NHL teams by now. He's in the only organization in all of hockey that would keep him for a decade with these results.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
This is something you're fabricating out of thin air.
Arbitrary cutoff that nonetheless remains true of the overwhelming majority of the League. The majority of folks with similar tenures have only one such finish - and they didn't have the #1 and #2 teams in their divisions to deal with to achieve those finishes. The Jackets finished 4th by a margin of one point - and yet apparently one point is enough of a basis for which to have fired this guy years ago (per your campaigning).
Ask the Toronto Maple Leafs if 2020 didn't count.
So what?
This is demonstrably untrue. Every time the subject comes up outside of Jackets fans circles, it is near-universally accepted that he would be immediately on the hire lists of a third to half of the League. The fanbase is suffering from a severe case of "familiarity breeds contempt" with Kekalainen.
That and "done an objectively shit job with roster construction". But you're right that Kekalainen would be highly sought after and he'd have no trouble getting a second GM gig if we parted with him.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Admittedly the only reason I don't go along with that assessment is that I've assumed that of him before only to see what I thought of as his wild and uncoordinated ideas bear fruit and do far better than I could have ever imagined. So in that he gets quite a bit of benefit of the doubt from me.
The rest, I don't have doubts to worry about.
BB88
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I love your positivity with the picks
Columbus had a legit good team, it’s not on Jarmo that the core didn’t want to stay.
He showed you he could build a legit core once.
Panarin- PLD- Werenski- Jones- Bob.
He’s on his 2nd run of building a legit core with Gaudreau- Laine- Johnson-Werenski- Jiricek- Tarasov.
What do you hate about the team moving forward? and is the issue unfixable during the build?
I could easily say something to that getting fired from 31/32 teams but I’ll just leave it without saying
Edit.
+
Very rarely do Gm’s win trades or get good value from trades where they have zero leverage.
Jarmo has shown time and time again he can pull of something awesome from a position he should be losing.
Panarin/Saad trades, Jones trade, PLD trade.
On top of that side he’s showing again they look good at drafting& they seem to be building a legit core, better than the Panarin core
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AGM - handles the CAP makes recommendations for contract signings and helps usually maintain the AHL affiliate. The other AGM is usually on the scouting side and helps as well on contract signings.
KJ Dangler
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Here’s where I am with Jarmo … there are expansion teams that ice better defensive cores than we have currently . We went into this season expecting a plethora of young defenseman plus adding Gudbranson after being one of the worst teams defensively last year , to be much better this year .Cleveland is an absolute mess defensively . You mean to tell me that we couldn’t add a few veteran journeyman type to stabilize the defense , Ryan Murray type, and let some of these guys really develop at the AHL level with Jiricek ?
Same thing with the center position for nearly his whole 10 yr tenure here … Team has been one of the weakest down center ice for almost All of the past decade . We go into each season with massive holes in our roster , a team spending near the cap. Haven’t been aggressive in solving this issue . There is a massive arrogance on how Jarmo tends to approach our team, and rarely have things worked out like he tells us it will . If we are being honest , what is he doing well ? I would say drafting has been solid as of late … I feel the ownership tends to look at it the same way , that things massively slipped when JD left the organization for NYR. In all honestly , Jarmo seems to have a great eye for talent , but roster construction skills are putrid, and I’m not sure that constitutes the makings of a good gm.
Same thing with the center position for nearly his whole 10 yr tenure here … Team has been one of the weakest down center ice for almost All of the past decade . We go into each season with massive holes in our roster , a team spending near the cap. Haven’t been aggressive in solving this issue . There is a massive arrogance on how Jarmo tends to approach our team, and rarely have things worked out like he tells us it will . If we are being honest , what is he doing well ? I would say drafting has been solid as of late … I feel the ownership tends to look at it the same way , that things massively slipped when JD left the organization for NYR. In all honestly , Jarmo seems to have a great eye for talent , but roster construction skills are putrid, and I’m not sure that constitutes the makings of a good gm.
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Nothing more boring and pointless than the nights of those mediocre Torts coached CBJ teams beating a “better” team 3-2 in February during a 3 month long playoff battle.
ZERO cups to show for it!!
1) What if the old “core” didn’t want to stay because of the new “core” Jarmo was bringing in??
2) The team sucks. “Growth” and “potential” don’t work like some of you attempt to pass off or seem to think. Many of you speak as if it’s a guarantee that all of our top prospects reach their highest potential, in an almost completely unrealistic timeframe. Lots of money tied up in DEFECTIVE players. Do people really think Laine and Merzlikins are going to win this team a Stanley Cup??
3) I’m sick and tired of people speaking on these trades as “wins” in any way. There’s a reason many people claimed for a time that Roslovic was the best player of the 3 out of that trade, tongue in cheek or not. It had more to do with people’s personal feelings towards Dubois, along with Laine’s play on the ice, more so than it had to do with Jack.
Looking into the future 5-7+ years to justify/consider it “winning” the Jones trade is the most asinine thing ever to me. And we’re still taking a gamble that the players we received will ACTUALLY make up the impact that (in retrospect for some of you) Jones clearly made.
4) Panarin > Gaudreau > Laine
Jones > Werenski
Doesn’t even touch Dubois/Duchene at center. Or the QUALITY of depth at all positions. Werenski-Murray-Savard in the top 4. Wasn’t a fan of the guy but Bob >> Merzlikins.
To say, “better than the Panarin core”, in such a way, I believe you don’t have an accurate view on the current state of the team, today or in the near future.
Werenski seemed more impressed with the acquisitions than Jones and Torts. Other than that I don't know much about what they thought.
Pretty much.
It's obvious this year that Dubois is playing the best of the three.
That's how I'd order it too.
Two D that Torts made look a lot better than they were. Though I'd definitely take Werenski over Jones. Not sure if you've seen much Jones the last couple seasons...
Yeah I'll believe it when they get there.
Rebuilding is gambling.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Most of the “new core” never overlapped with the “old core.” Player movement had nothing to do with guys not trusting a future vision based on players you don’t like.
I’m not sure what’s is called what you’ve done here with your words, and I won’t hold my breath that Viqsi will interject in this situation with the correct terminology, however, the usage of “most” and “never” in the same line referencing the roster like that, seem to contradict the point you are trying to make.
Also think once again fans are speaking about things and adding their insight on things they have no idea about. And you guys keep making everything I say about “me”, more than I do.
You have just as much of an idea as I have, on WHY the players (and Jarmo) have made the decisions they have regarding the future of themselves and the team.
Most the time people around here don’t realize any visible cues from players actually on the broadcast during the game, yet, any stupid pre planned celebration or PR/PC interview regarding players feelings for each other, are taken as gospel.
(disclaimer: Gudbranson hasn’t been “good”— IMO, looking at the play/chemistry of the team as a whole, he also hasn’t been bad— the team was just as bad before he got here and the odds are very low that he isn’t playing through his own injuries at this point— his play style not meshing well with most of the other players because they don’t play a responsible game is out of his control)
Watch the reaction or “interaction” here between 2 of our oldest “vets” (mainly Kuraly), 2 guys both newly added to the team, and both guys (along with the 2 wingers on the ice for the goal-depending how you look at Olivier) looked at as defensively responsible, and ALSO possibly that they bring “leadership”.
Where some of you may see innocent frustration, I see so much more. 1st and most importantly and simply put, the reaction from Kuraly is bad.
It isn’t a “oh, we f***ed up again”, it’s 100% a, “I did my job” reaction/point to the ice. Again, this is outward reaction/emotion directed towards other players and an “individual mindset” that you do not see often (and do not want) at all at the NHL level.
What was Gudbranson really getting/hinting at regarding his comments on the team and practice?? How often do we hear something like that in the NHL?? Just how carefully did he choose his words and WHY does he have to speak so “nicely” about (IMO) a pretty significant issue??
“Accountability” needs to come from the players, not the coach. That said, what exactly do people think the back and forth between Larsen and Laine was about YEARS ago?? What has OR HASN’T changed regarding each guys personality and what they think they (or any player) should bring to the ice??
Watch the reaction or “interaction” here between 2 of our oldest “vets” (mainly Kuraly), 2 guys both newly added to the team, and both guys (along with the 2 wingers on the ice for the goal-depending how you look at Olivier) looked at as defensively responsible, and ALSO possibly that they bring “leadership”.
Where some of you may see innocent frustration, I see so much more. 1st and most importantly and simply put, the reaction from Kuraly is bad.
It isn’t a “oh, we f***ed up again”, it’s 100% a, “I did my job” reaction/point to the ice. Again, this is outward reaction/emotion directed towards other players and an “individual mindset” that you do not see often (and do not want) at all at the NHL level.
What was Gudbranson really getting/hinting at regarding his comments on the team and practice?? How often do we hear something like that in the NHL?? Just how carefully did he choose his words and WHY does he have to speak so “nicely” about (IMO) a pretty significant issue??
“Accountability” needs to come from the players, not the coach. That said, what exactly do people think the back and forth between Larsen and Laine was about YEARS ago?? What has OR HASN’T changed regarding each guys personality and what they think they (or any player) should bring to the ice??
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
It's not actually contradictory at all. In this case, "never" is about contact with the "old core", and applies only to the subset of the "new core" as described by "most". Put differently and without those words - the overwhelming majority of the "new core" did not have any overlapping contact with the "old core" at any point.
You're castigating people for speaking strongly about some things and "adding insight" on things that aren't known, and then turning around and doing exactly that yourself by insinuating that somehow the old guys were asking out because of new guys coming in, even though the majority of those new guys came in by trading away old guys for them. Or, in other words, you're accusing folks here of jumping to conclusions based on incomplete data, and then offering your own jumped-to conclusion based on data that is inherently self-contradictory - it would require those "old guys" to be able to predict the future w/r/t who they'd be traded for.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
If we're allowed to go by nuance and "read between the lines" for details like you describe here, then I submit that a careful reading of this post and others made by you strongly suggests this is motivated reasoning - a confirmation bias driven search for anything at all to rationalize a long held belief that Patrik Laine was the catalyst that destroyed the Tortorella teams, in defiance of the known fact that that team was falling apart - and our #1C was forcing himself out - long before there was any hint he could ever possibly be a Blue Jacket.
Is that off base? Am I speculating too much on too little? Possibly - but if so, then your speculation in this post is equally suspect and troublesome, because it's based on the same sort of nitpicky agenda-seeking "investigation".
You are starting to see the effects of lowered testosterone levels because of constant losing, another reason why tanking is a bad idea. They will keep getting crankier and crankier and less and less likely to approach attractive females
I don't think it's that rare. Not a nice thing to see though. Leave it to you to make a mountain out of a molehill. And in this case to use a whole lot of motivated reasoning to try and shift blame.
Kuraly had his guy covered and he's responding to Gudbranson turning to him after the goal and saying something. If Guddy said "why is that guy open" then Kuraly is saying "he wasn't open", which is the right response in this situation. Nothing on Kuraly here.
Gudbranson's original comments were obviously (to me) about the players not the coaches, and it seemed like perfectly good comments to me. But some fans online (including here) misinterpreted it and made it into a coaches thing. And then the weird unsettling thing is that Guddy had to clarify it to reporters - someone in the FO or coaching staff got thin skin and said something to Guddy about it, and that's the part I don't like. If fans have a stupid idea about what Guddy meant, then just let them have it. If they want to hate on a coach unreasonably, let them do it. It's not anyone's job on the team to manage dumb ideas, and when they start trying to manage it then we've got an organizational issue.
While Kuraly isn’t at fault for the goal, (Berni/Olivier/Robinson are) his check adds nothing to the defensive play. And quite frankly he isn’t doing much to cover that player after the check in the corner, standing still near nobody.
While it was quick, I think that reaction was absolutely rare. Show me another case similar. Another interesting aspect is that it was a goal that PHI tied the game on, it wasn’t as if CBJ was losing or getting blown out.
While players will have some quick words/ a quick discussion about what mistakes were made/what went wrong, my problem is just with how Kuraly went about it. The “body language” and “message” I got from him was much more negative than normal, when talking a high level/pro team. He took it to a completely different level, it arguably looks like Gudbranson didn’t actually say anything/much but turn his head.
All that said, it’s not actually about either individual player or about this individual play/reaction, I think it’s a “symptom” of something, or another “red flag” involving the entire team, that others are seemingly dismissing for whatever reasons.
The having to respond/clarify what he said was 100% a “joke” on multiple levels. Again, something not “normal”, and yes also imo, clearly showing some sort of issue/problem.
Portzline and that side of the “CBJ media” are no better than Rimer. They focus on the dumbest things, and don’t touch EASY “legitimate” stories.
That said, it being about the players, ISN’T better than it being about the coaches. What type of players do you think are slacking during practice, the younger players?? Or guys with huge cushy contracts??
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