The Jarmo Thread

[BB88]

Giving this thread a bump.

I've always been a fan of Jarmo, from my perspective he's a great at drafting and understanding value when it comes to trades *usually, but there's been a lot of blunders lately.

- Giving Gudbranson 4 x 4 is horrific.
- Resigning Elvis to 5.4x5 is even worse.
- The coaching staff, including Legace, have not worked out.
- The extreme confidence in his unproven defensemen.

There hasn't been a lot of reason of late to believe he's got this ship going in the right other than his drafting ability.

I fear he also might panic trade for Horvat and sign him to 9+.

I’m looking at this the other way.

Not confident the ship is going on the right direction?

The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in Johnson. They have a superstar winger in Gaudreau, star winger in Laine.

They have Werenski as 1D, potentially another 1D in Jiricek.

Potentially a starting 1G in Tarasov.

With another top3/5 pick next summer, Mateychuk, Marchenko, Chinakhov, Jenner, Blankenburg, Dumais, (Gavrikov) on the system.

I see them finally having the potential to build a legit contending level core.

Yeah Gubranson and Merz contracts aren’t great yet the fact is every team has bad contracts and plenty of teams have gargabe contracts around 8-10M per player.
Contracts wise Columbus is actually in a nice shape, 5M for the worst contract isn’t as catastrophic.

I understand the past but can you honestly say they’ve done a terrible job on their rebuild? 2021->

 

[Youngguns1380]

I’m looking at this the other way.

Not confident the ship is going on the right direction?

The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in Johnson. They have a superstar winger in Gaudreau, star winger in Laine.

They have Werenski as 1D, potentially another 1D in Jiricek.

Potentially a starting 1G in Tarasov.

With another top3/5 pick next summer, Mateychuk, Marchenko, Chinakhov, Jenner, Blankenburg, Dumais, (Gavrikov) on the system.

I see them finally having the potential to build a legit contending level core.

Yeah Gubranson and Merz contracts aren’t great yet the fact is every team has bad contracts and plenty of teams have gargabe contracts around 8-10M per player.
Contracts wise Columbus is actually in a nice shape, 5M for the worst contract isn’t as catastrophic.

I understand the past but can you honestly say they’ve done a terrible job on their rebuild? 2021->

I don’t think the roster construction is bad but this team’s core is built for the rush (@majormajor has talked about this at great lengths) and not a cycle team. That will hurt us in the playoffs(if we ever get there), That is one issue. The other glaring is the coach they hired to bring this talent along. He is a nice guy but his Hockey instincts (lines, when to pull the goalie, when to take a timeout, adjustments in game, etc) and teaching attributes (figure out how to get through to your players) are sub-par. Those are my main issues with Jarmo.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I fear he also might panic trade for Horvat and sign him to 9+.

We hired his babysitter back, so in theory this idea would get nixed.

 

[Columbus Jack]

I’m looking at this the other way.

Not confident the ship is going on the right direction?

The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in Johnson. They have a superstar winger in Gaudreau, star winger in Laine.

They have Werenski as 1D, potentially another 1D in Jiricek.

Potentially a starting 1G in Tarasov.

With another top3/5 pick next summer, Mateychuk, Marchenko, Chinakhov, Jenner, Blankenburg, Dumais, (Gavrikov) on the system.

I see them finally having the potential to build a legit contending level core.

Yeah Gubranson and Merz contracts aren’t great yet the fact is every team has bad contracts and plenty of teams have gargabe contracts around 8-10M per player.
Contracts wise Columbus is actually in a nice shape, 5M for the worst contract isn’t as catastrophic.

I understand the past but can you honestly say they’ve done a terrible job on their rebuild? 2021->

I didn't say they've done a terrible job but there's lots of question marks.

Building a great team is a lot more than having a great prospect pool.

I've commended Jarmo for rebuilding the cupboards but his execution at the NHL level deserves questioning for the points I listed above.

You can't be damn near last in the NHL and not have questions asked, this team was supposed to be young and inconsistent but not sure anyone thought it'd be this bad.

Gudbranson, by every metric was a bad player, Jarmo then gives him a 4 year contract? He's now revealing to be a bad player. How is that excusable? Other than, "he protects our young guys." It's idiotic

 

[CBJx614]

I don’t think the roster construction is bad but this team’s core is built for the rush (@majormajor has talked about this at great lengths) and not a cycle team. That will hurt us in the playoffs(if we ever get there), That is one issue. The other glaring is the coach they hired to bring this talent along. He is a nice guy but his Hockey instincts (lines, when to pull the goalie, when to take a timeout, adjustments in game, etc) and teaching attributes (figure out how to get through to your players) are sub-par. Those are my main issues with Jarmo.

Teams evolve every season. Tampa wasn't built for the physical game, got embarrassed by us, made changes in the off-season, came back and bullied the league to a cup.

Great teams learn from their mistakes and evolve from them. Look at the young Crosby and Ovechkin teams. Sometimes you gotta through secondary players until you find one that fits.

It's hard to take much of anything from this season other than our depth sucks. Yes the defense looked horrible to start the year, but we don't know if any of Z, Bean, Boqvist or Blankenberg would've stepped up and started gelling.. Our D was built to play on the rush and help support the offense and now we had Gudbranson and Gavrikov leading the rush, is anyone surprised our numbers are as terrible as they are?

 

[majormajor]

Teams evolve every season. Tampa wasn't built for the physical game, got embarrassed by us, made changes in the off-season, came back and bullied the league to a cup.

Great teams learn from their mistakes and evolve from them. Look at the young Crosby and Ovechkin teams. Sometimes you gotta through secondary players until you find one that fits.

It's hard to take much of anything from this season other than our depth sucks. Yes the defense looked horrible to start the year, but we don't know if any of Z, Bean, Boqvist or Blankenberg would've stepped up and started gelling.. Our D was built to play on the rush and help support the offense and now we had Gudbranson and Gavrikov leading the rush, is anyone surprised our numbers are as terrible as they are?

I think this underestimates how difficult it can be to transform a team. We are structurally a one-and-done rush team. That's not easy to change. The Leafs are better at cycling than we are but they still can't get very far being below average at it.

Adjustments will always have to be made but I don't know why you would deliberately set out on a course that you know you would have to change later. The Penguins in Crosby and Malkin's early years offer a better model. They surrounded their young centers with gritty guys like Roberts, Hossa, Dupuis, Talbot, Fedotenko. That let them play a playoff style cycle game immediately. Crosby being a great cycler helped immensely too, of course. But that's all the more reason why we should be attentive to it because our top talents are not good at it. The Bjorkstrand move makes it look like Jarmo is trying to strip every bit of cycling ability from this team.

 

[CBJx614]

I think this underestimates how difficult it can be to transform a team. We are structurally a one-and-done rush team. That's not easy to change. The Leafs are better at cycling than we are but they still can't get very far being below average at it.

Adjustments will always have to be made but I don't know why you would deliberately set out on a course that you know you would have to change later. The Penguins in Crosby and Malkin's early years offer a better model. They surrounded their young centers with gritty guys like Roberts, Hossa, Dupuis, Talbot, Fedotenko. That let them play a playoff style cycle game immediately. Crosby being a great cycler helped immensely too, of course. But that's all the more reason why we should be attentive to it because our top talents are not good at it. The Bjorkstrand move makes it look like Jarmo is trying to strip every bit of cycling ability from this team.

The part I'm worried about is what changes he will(or won't make) based on the lost season and not being able to see guys actually play.

 

[domi28]

I’m looking at this the other way.

Not confident the ship is going on the right direction?

The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in Johnson. They have a superstar winger in Gaudreau, star winger in Laine.

They have Werenski as 1D, potentially another 1D in Jiricek.

Potentially a starting 1G in Tarasov.

With another top3/5 pick next summer, Mateychuk, Marchenko, Chinakhov, Jenner, Blankenburg, Dumais, (Gavrikov) on the system.

I see them finally having the potential to build a legit contending level core.

Yeah Gubranson and Merz contracts aren’t great yet the fact is every team has bad contracts and plenty of teams have gargabe contracts around 8-10M per player.
Contracts wise Columbus is actually in a nice shape, 5M for the worst contract isn’t as catastrophic.

I understand the past but can you honestly say they’ve done a terrible job on their rebuild? 2021->

Five years ago:
The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in PLD. They have a superstar winger in Panarin, star winger in Atkinson.

They have Jones as 1D, potentially another 1D in Werenski.

Potentially a starting 1G in Bob.

Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano, Carlsson, Abramov, etc were the highly thought of young guys.

I have zero faith in Jarmo's ability to actually develop a roster than can be a cup contender for multiple years. He has shown he is great at trades but he hasn't shown an ability in 10 years to actually draft guys, develop them, and finally turn those guys into a team that can compete for cups. Some prospects with high ceilings doesn't change anything for me.

This is quickly becoming the Cleveland Browns: just wait 'til next year...

 

[BB88]

I don’t think the roster construction is bad but this team’s core is built for the rush (@majormajor has talked about this at great lengths) and not a cycle team. That will hurt us in the playoffs(if we ever get there), That is one issue. The other glaring is the coach they hired to bring this talent along. He is a nice guy but his Hockey instincts (lines, when to pull the goalie, when to take a timeout, adjustments in game, etc) and teaching attributes (figure out how to get through to your players) are sub-par. Those are my main issues with Jarmo.

Are you talking about the current teams problems or problems you see the lineup has i 2-3 years time?

Because to me the future outlook of the team is build for todays league.
From size to skill to puck moving.
F group will see a big change next summer so hard to say exactly about that.

Also the coach is the ”easiest” to fix.
We know the most important and difficult positions to fill are the 1C& the 1D and finally Columbus has a chance to have them both with a really great supporting group.

In rebuild finding the franchise talent is top one priority, the rest is easier to address/fix. They aren’t building a one year window

I didn't say they've done a terrible job but there's lots of question marks.

Building a great team is a lot more than having a great prospect pool.

I've commended Jarmo for rebuilding the cupboards but his execution at the NHL level deserves questioning for the points I listed above.

You can't be damn near last in the NHL and not have questions asked, this team was supposed to be young and inconsistent but not sure anyone thought it'd be this bad.

Gudbranson, by every metric was a bad player, Jarmo then gives him a 4 year contract? He's now revealing to be a bad player. How is that excusable? Other than, "he protects our young guys." It's idiotic

Of course there’s lots of question marks.
What young rebuilding team doesn’t have?

& no rebuilding team can handle the amount of injuries Columbus has been dealing with this year. They are currently missing 10 guys and are constantly hit with new injuries


& yes Gubranson is a bad contract, my point is every team has those and often with 2-3M bigger cap hit.
Even the great Yzerman gave Chiarot 4x4.

Boston while having being elite the last 10 years they constantly have cap dump contracts they are having to carry.
Florida has Bob at 10, Hornqvist at 5.3, Yandles massive buy out.
Vancouver has OEL& Miller.
The list goes on. Every Gm makes bad signings and 4M is pretty ”good” gor garbage contract in todays game

 

[BB88]

Five years ago:
The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in PLD. They have a superstar winger in Panarin, star winger in Atkinson.

They have Jones as 1D, potentially another 1D in Werenski.

Potentially a starting 1G in Bob.

Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano, Carlsson, Abramov, etc were the highly thought of young guys.

I have zero faith in Jarmo's ability to actually develop a roster than can be a cup contender for multiple years. He has shown he is great at trades but he hasn't shown an ability in 10 years to actually draft guys, develop them, and finally turn those guys into a team that can compete for cups. Some prospects with high ceilings doesn't change anything for me.

This is quickly becoming the Cleveland Browns: just wait 'til next year...

The problem was that core didn’t want to stay in Columbus.
& you are looking at adding another prospect who’s superior to PLD as a prospect and better than Johnson on top of having this prospect pool already.

Now you see change and easier job for Gm to try to build something.
Werenski signed longterm, Gaudreau signed longterm, Laine signed.
That’s not what the last core with great potential gave. That gives stability, consistency and breathing space

 

[CBJx614]

Five years ago:
The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in PLD. They have a superstar winger in Panarin, star winger in Atkinson.

They have Jones as 1D, potentially another 1D in Werenski.

Potentially a starting 1G in Bob.

Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano, Carlsson, Abramov, etc were the highly thought of young guys.

I have zero faith in Jarmo's ability to actually develop a roster than can be a cup contender for multiple years. He has shown he is great at trades but he hasn't shown an ability in 10 years to actually draft guys, develop them, and finally turn those guys into a team that can compete for cups. Some prospects with high ceilings doesn't change anything for me.

This is quickly becoming the Cleveland Browns: just wait 'til next year...

Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Anderson and Milano developed into NHL players. You also conveniently left off guys that have developed into NHLers, like Gavrikov, Peeke, Merzlikins, Tarasov, Marchenko, Chinakov, Robinson and Blankenberg. So idk what you're going for there.

Your 1C was traded to replace your superstar winger. Which has left us a massive hole that teams can spend 5-10+ years trying to fill and we now have at least 1 player who looks like he can possibly grow into that role.

Your 1D was traded for futures.

Your 1G wanted entirely too much money and was a mental basket case. Similar to the C/D position, finding a franchise goaltender that you can actually rely on for more than a 2-3 year period is extremely difficult.


I'm confused at what your point is.

 

[domi28]

Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Anderson and Milano developed into NHL players. You also conveniently left off guys that have developed into NHLers, like Gavrikov, Peeke, Merzlikins, Tarasov, Marchenko, Chinakov, Robinson and Blankenberg. So idk what you're going for there.

Your 1C was traded to replace your superstar winger. Which has left us a massive hole that teams can spend 5-10+ years trying to fill and we now have at least 1 player who looks like he can possibly grow into that role.

Your 1D was traded for futures.

Your 1G wanted entirely too much money and was a mental basket case. Similar to the C/D position, finding a franchise goaltender that you can actually rely on for more than a 2-3 year period is extremely difficult.


I'm confused at what your point is.

My point is Jarmo took what looked like a great future and turned it into nothing. What did Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Anderson, and Milano turn into? Are any of those other guys anything most teams in the league do not have? Drafting middle pairing dmen and middle 6 forwards isn't going to win Stanley Cups.

As for Bob it's well documented he did not want to negotiate with Jarmo so giving Jarmo credit for not signing him to a huge contract is revisionist history. The FO did everything they could to run Bob out of Columbus and he happily obliged them.

So let me ask a question in a different way: 5 years ago the future looked really bright. What is different now that is going to lead to this team being cup contenders?

There's a reason this franchise consistently ranks in the top5 youngest teams in the league and it isn't due to great GM'ing.

 

[BB88]

My point is Jarmo took what looked like a great future and turned it into nothing. What did Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Anderson, and Milano turn into? Are any of those other guys anything most teams in the league do not have? Drafting middle pairing dmen and middle 6 forwards isn't going to win Stanley Cups.

As for Bob it's well documented he did not want to negotiate with Jarmo so giving Jarmo credit for not signing him to a huge contract is revisionist history. The FO did everything they could to run Bob out of Columbus and he happily obliged them.

So let me ask a question in a different way: 5 years ago the future looked really bright. What is different now that is going to lead to this team being cup contenders?

There's a reason this franchise consistently ranks in the top5 youngest teams in the league and it isn't due to great GM'ing.

????

Why did he turn it into nothing?
None of Panarin/Jones/PLD were willing to commit to Columbus. They wanted brighter lights, how is that on Jarmo?

& how does that affect this core?
Gaudreau/Laine/Werenski are signed longterm already.

I don’t understand how this is the same situation

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

How are you missing the point?

Why did he turn it into nothing?
None of Panarin/Jones/PLD were willing to commit to Columbus. They wanted brighter lights, how is that on Jarmo?

& how does that affect this core?
Gaudreau/Laine/Werenski are signed longterm already.

His point is that in 5 years we could be in the same boat if prospects don't pan out due to poor development. Just because we have loaded prospects doesn't mean anything more than that. There is no guarantee any of them will live up to potential or they might want to play somewhere else too.

 

[BB88]

His point is that in 5 years we could be in the same boat if prospects don't pan out due to poor development. Just because we have loaded prospects doesn't mean anything more than that. There is no guarantee any of them will live up to potential or they might want to play somewhere else too.

That great future involved Panarin/PLD/Jones/Bob heavily.
They were the cornerstone/franchise players.

Them wanting out played a massive part on that future turning into nothing.

This time it looks different because all the top/franchise guys committed longterm.

I very well know not every prospect is going to pan out but they don’t have to. They have quality guys in their primes locked up taking pressure away from the kids.
+ they are getting a helluva prospect to add into the mix next summer.

A huge reason for struggling teams is lack of consistency, being under constant change.
The NHL core signing and committing longterm is going to help in a massive way believe me.

& because of them Columbus is not having a full tear down rebuild. They aren’t just exposing prospects in a similar manner to those forever struggling teams like Buffalo/Arizona/Edmonton.

 

[majormajor]

That great future involved Panarin/PLD/Jones/Bob heavily.
They were the cornerstone/franchise players.

Them wanting out played a massive part on that future turning into nothing.

Agreed on all this.

They aren’t just exposing prospects in a similar manner to those forever struggling teams like Buffalo/Arizona/Edmonton.

I think they are exposing prospects to a pretty brutal situation right now. What they're doing with Sillinger right now is not cool.

 

[BB88]

Agreed on all this.



I think they are exposing prospects to a pretty brutal situation right now. What they're doing with Sillinger right now is not cool.

It’s not an ideal situation, but it isn’t a situation either were 18-19y players are thrown into the wolves and asked to carry the team.

Columbus has good amount of vets but no one could have predicted the amount of injuries they are getting.

Sillinger stands out as the prospect they rushed.
& if Gavrikov gets traded adding more quality veterand on the blueline should be pretty high on the list to help out the younger Dmen breaking into the league with Werenski.

Again, it’s not an ideal situation but rarely it is for young rebuilding teams and Gaudreau/Laine/Jenner/Werenski are asked to carry lot of the heavy load instead of the prospects.
When healthy of course

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Five years ago:
The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in PLD. They have a superstar winger in Panarin, star winger in Atkinson.

They have Jones as 1D, potentially another 1D in Werenski.

Potentially a starting 1G in Bob.

Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano, Carlsson, Abramov, etc were the highly thought of young guys.

I have zero faith in Jarmo's ability to actually develop a roster than can be a cup contender for multiple years. He has shown he is great at trades but he hasn't shown an ability in 10 years to actually draft guys, develop them, and finally turn those guys into a team that can compete for cups. Some prospects with high ceilings doesn't change anything for me.

This is quickly becoming the Cleveland Browns: just wait 'til next year...

Five years ago John Tortorella was the coach. If that roster didn’t develop that’s on him.

 

[koteka]

& yes Gubranson is a bad contract, my point is every team has those and often with 2-3M bigger cap hit.
Even the great Yzerman gave Chiarot 4x4.

Jarmo’s mistake wasn’t giving Gudbranson a bad contract. That was the solution to the real mistake he made. His mistake was that he had a team with no tough guys and was potentially about to play some very high draft picks (Johnson, Jiricek) in the NHL. These young guys are seen as the future of the franchise. Jarmo knew that other teams would go after the young guys and nothing could be done to stop that. So he needed to find a guy like Gudbranson to keep the 18 and 19 year olds from getting killed on a nightly basis. Peeke was the default tough guy last season and that didnt work so well.

So Jarmo traded for Olivier before the draft (and everyone thought he was nuts) and then he signed Gudbranson once free agency started. The good news is that Olivier looks decent enough in his role. The really good news is that Gudbranson and Olivier have been a deterrent and the young Jackets aren’t being abused by the rest of the league. (Meanwhile Slafkovsky has been drilled several times already. I don’t know if that says something about Slafkovsky’s awareness on the ice or the fact that Montreal’s toughest guy is 21 and not yet established as a tough guy.) The bad news is that Gudbranson (and the rest of the defense) has been awful.

I am not going to complain about Gudbranson‘s defense because our guys aren’t being killed out on the ice. There are much bigger things to complain about with this team.

 

[Viqsi]

Five years ago:
The prospect pool is probably the best it has ever been. The 25 and under pool looks elite as well.
They have potentially a 1C in PLD. They have a superstar winger in Panarin, star winger in Atkinson.

They have Jones as 1D, potentially another 1D in Werenski.

Potentially a starting 1G in Bob.

Bjorkstrand, Anderson, Milano, Carlsson, Abramov, etc were the highly thought of young guys.

I have zero faith in Jarmo's ability to actually develop a roster than can be a cup contender for multiple years. He has shown he is great at trades but he hasn't shown an ability in 10 years to actually draft guys, develop them, and finally turn those guys into a team that can compete for cups. Some prospects with high ceilings doesn't change anything for me.

This is quickly becoming the Cleveland Browns: just wait 'til next year...

And, hey, guess what, that roster you're griping about was far and away the most successful ever in Blue Jackets history, swept the President's Trophy winners, and was (rightly) considered a legit contender for the Cup. But then Panarin wanted to leave and Bob wanted too much and then Brisson happened.

This is what blows my mind when folks talk about how Kekalainen has "done nothing". He actually did the job. It fell apart after one year due to circumstances nobody could control, but the roster was still there.

 

[Viqsi]

I am not going to complain about Gudbranson‘s defense because our guys aren’t being killed out on the ice. There are much bigger things to complain about with this team.

Personally, I'll still complain, but I'm not pointing to him and saying "this is why Kekalainen should be fired."

 

[BB88]

Jarmo’s mistake wasn’t giving Gudbranson a bad contract. That was the solution to the real mistake he made. His mistake was that he had a team with no tough guys and was potentially about to play some very high draft picks (Johnson, Jiricek) in the NHL. These young guys are seen as the future of the franchise. Jarmo knew that other teams would go after the young guys and nothing could be done to stop that. So he needed to find a guy like Gudbranson to keep the 18 and 19 year olds from getting killed on a nightly basis. Peeke was the default tough guy last season and that didnt work so well.

So Jarmo traded for Olivier before the draft (and everyone thought he was nuts) and then he signed Gudbranson once free agency started. The good news is that Olivier looks decent enough in his role. The really good news is that Gudbranson and Olivier have been a deterrent and the young Jackets aren’t being abused by the rest of the league. (Meanwhile Slafkovsky has been drilled several times already. I don’t know if that says something about Slafkovsky’s awareness on the ice or the fact that Montreal’s toughest guy is 21 and not yet established as a tough guy.) The bad news is that Gudbranson (and the rest of the defense) has been awful.

I am not going to complain about Gudbranson‘s defense because our guys aren’t being killed out on the ice. There are much bigger things to complain about with this team.

I understand the ”anger” towards Gubranson contract if you look at it costing Bjorkstrand but on it’s own contract if a 4x4 is the worst contract on the roster the cap situation looks very healthy moving forward.

Now if that’s where people want to go after Jarmo I think they have a weak case.

Everyone makes mistakes, but it’s important to learn from them.
So I look at the 2021 rebuild as reset.

Do people have an issue with their drafting 2021->?
Do people have an issue with signing Gaudreau?
So the people have an issue with the coach(I’ll say yes)
Do the people have an issue with the direction?

Personnally I think the drafting is looking quite elite for that short window as far as we can look at it now.
They are clearly focusing on key areas, taking multiple C& D prospects with high picks, going for potential over safe.
& with how they’ve been drafting I see direction and vision, many will disagree here that they don’t see the vision as they are looking at the current roster.

I don’t have the faith for Larsen, though I see that as the easiest thing to address, if Larsen doesn’t work you only have to fire him and hire a good coach.

I’m not mad at this season or wouldn’t be mad about this season because it was always going to be a development year. They aren’t trying to build a 1 year window.
If you don’t have the right coach or right depth players they are easy(easier) to address along the way.
I repeat they aren’t building for a 1 year window. They are building for a core that can be in the mix for the next 10-15 years.

The most important thing right now is to build the base properly and find the players for the most important positions.
& as far as I can see they are doing exactly that.

Trying to contend with a flawed core(Minnesota) rarely works.

When Tampa got swept by Columbus they didn’t need to add to the core or rebuild the core. They made changes elsewhere yet the core was in place and went on to become basically a dynasty.

It’s not a 1 year sprint, they are trying for 10 year marathon.
I think this is where many go lost. They expect the team to have every right piece right away.

 

[Youngguns1380]

I appreciate your optimism but I left that at the door when we switched from a hard to play against team (little skill) and went to a full rush team that can’t sustain zone time with mostly skill and little grit.

Those aren’t little changes and changing the playing style isn’t just adding a few players. Also the switch of the coach and staff isn’t a 1 test thing as well.

Look I am not fire Jarmo but I am critical when they address the media/fans and talk about giving up too many goals and defense that they are going to address. Nothing changed and they expected a different result. Now losing Gavy is going to set us back more because nobody in our pipeline is ready to take that role. So 2023 is going to be a bad season as well and this was sold as a retool.

Next the development of the talent and rushing guys to play. Marchenko should have been here on opening roster and Kent & Sillinger in the AHL. Just to name the biggest elephant in the room. Couple that with Coaching and that is a recipe for ruining talent

Jarmo has been good on the scouting side of the house but contracts/day to day has been sub-par. Not addressing the fans after the Buffalo embarrassment on a National Level and having Porty have to call to get a response is just out of touch with his supporters - the fans.

The Gudbranson contract happens an everyone makes mistakes and I am not happy with but it’s the other items are more concerning.

 

[BB88]

I appreciate your optimism but I left that at the door when we switched from a hard to play against team (little skill) and went to a full rush team that can’t sustain zone time with mostly skill and little grit.

Those aren’t little changes and chafing g the playing style isn’t just adding a few players. Also the switch of the coach and staff isn’t a 1 test thing as well.

Look I am not fire Jarmo but I am critical when they address the media last fans and talk about giving up too many goals and defense that they are going to address. Nothing changed and they expected a different result. Now losing Gavy is going to set us back more because nobody in our pipeline is ready to take that role. So 2023 is going to be a bad season as well and this was sold as a retool.

Next the development of the talent and rushing guys to play. Marchenko should have been here on opening roster and Kent & Sillinger in the AHL. Just to name the biggest elephant in the room. Couple that with Coaching and that is a recipe for ruining talent

Jarmo has been good on the scouting side of the house but contracts/day to day has been sub-par. Not addressing the fans after the Buffalo embarrassment on a National Level and having Porty have to call to get a response is just out of touch with his supporters - the fans.

The Gudbranson contract happens an everyone makes mistakes and I am not happy with but it’s the other items are more concerning.

How didn’t nothing change?
They drafted defense at 6 and 12 and tried to get McDonagh but he refused to waive.

I’m trying to say this isn’t a 1 year build and it doesn’t have to be.
You don’t have to have/can’t have all the pieces needed for longterm contender, it takes time to build that.

The most important thing at the beginning of a rebuild is to get the core addressed/figured out.

Gaudreau- Johnson- Laine
Werenski- Jiricek
Tarasov
With a shot at Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson.

So I would say the core is potentially there for turning the team into a contender in the near future.

The hard part for building a longterm playoff should be finished by 2023 draft.
Then it’s on to fine tuning the roster.

Just like Tampa did and keeps doing, just what Carolina did and keeps doing, Colorado, Boston, Florida, Toronto.

You can’t have it perfect in year 2 of a rebuild but as I’m trying to say you don’t have to.

This team should turn into consistent playoff team in 1-2 years time where you keep fine tuning the roster as you go just like all the other top teams do.

What they’ve done can give them a long window to compete and be consistently good. Don’t know how you argue against it currently

 

[JacketsDavid]

????

Why did he turn it into nothing?
None of Panarin/Jones/PLD were willing to commit to Columbus. They wanted brighter lights, how is that on Jarmo?

& how does that affect this core?
Gaudreau/Laine/Werenski are signed longterm already.

I don’t understand how this is the same situation

He traded for Jones and Panarin. He shouldn't be swapping guys if he doesn't have ateam players want to play for.
This isn't fantasy hockey. IMO Jarmo is doing the same thing IDWT did (albeit Jarmo has huge advantage of a much larger payroll) in he just trades guys in and out and plugs some holes and creates others (remember when doug blamed Whitney and Sillinger for being a poor road team, so he brought in more gritty players and the team sucked even worse).
Here Jarmo had a team noone wanted to play for. Many assume coaching didn't help, and if that was the case why keep Torts here when he didn't want to be be here? If it wasn't the coach then it was the team itself - and it's his team? Who should we blame for that? I know just bad luck...
Jarmo has had a long time at the helm. He's gottn us no where. WHen he came into his job the cupboards weren't bare, so IMO would be a reat time to bring in someone else so they can run this thing.