The Jarmo Thread

[Cowumbus]

The team structures and roster breakdowns are soooo much more complex than, “offensive team”/“defensive team”.

Yep.

And not having established centerS is a huge issue.

 

[BB88]

I don't think we're one center or one goalie away. Though improving there would certainly help. We need competent puckmovers on the backend and we need forwards who can play the cycle game. I hate it because there's already been so much turnover and lack of opportunity to build chemistry, but the team needs some trades.

Of course they need defense, but they’ve atleast drafted Jiricek/Mateychuk/Ceulemans and have Blankenburg developing in the NHL.
So you can atleast look at the defense and think help is on the way.


Goaltending is probably something they have to try to fix by a trade or a signing.
The way this season is going they have a chance at addressing the C on draft day.

& at F there’s of course young raw talent and they should really focus on their development this season.
Sillinger looks like a major disappointment now and will need focus.

So longterm I’m not that worried about the wing or the defense.
The 3 mentioned in the previous post are massive question marks and without answers will have Columbus trying to contend with a flawed core

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think there are some things you have to know - things that we as fans might never know - before you can say with certainty that Jarmo should’ve fired based on these things.

1) I would bet that Jarmo’s plan was for this team to include Dubois and Jones. Whether or not we now hate them aside, why did they instead opt to go elsewhere?

Yes, a Gm has to be nimble but how long does he get to readjust after significant changes like those?

2) Why did Torts want out? It’s kind of an oversimplification to say “player style that Jarmo preferred,” given Torts coached guys like Wennberg, Bjorkstrand etc. he could have just not taken the job.

When did their relationship change and why?

3) How much, if any, of the Larsen hire was financial?

 

[Monstershockey]

This is not false.

But I doubt that you'd find many posters here that really wanted Panarin, Dubios or Jones to leave. SHIT happens.

Kind of makes you wonder if Jones and Dubios saw this coming.

 

[Viqsi]

Look up Leaman, he’s an Ohio guy.

I just looked him up, and he appears to be a head coach, not a front office exec.

 

[Cowumbus]

I just looked him up, and he appears to be a head coach, not a front office exec.

Yes he is a coach. That doesn’t mean you can’t be a GM. Jarmo was “just a scout”

He is a good hockey mind.

 

[Viqsi]

Yes he is a coach. That doesn’t mean you can’t be a GM. Jarmo was “just a scout”

I'd prefer someone who has shown more ability in team selection than that...

 

[Cowumbus]

I'd prefer someone who has shown more ability in team selection than that...

Then what about Rikard Grongborg or Steve Staios?

Staios made some great trades last year for the Hamilton Bulldogs, got McTavish and the guys that looks like his name is a wifi password. They lost in the Mem cup but had a good year. He won OHL GM OTY too.

He’s with the Oilers now, as a “special advisor”

 

[majormajor]

2) Why did Torts want out? It’s kind of an oversimplification to say “player style that Jarmo preferred,” given Torts coached guys like Wennberg, Bjorkstrand etc. he could have just not taken the job.

? Two of the most diligent defensive players in franchise history?

Looking back on it, that 2021 team was still loaded with good two-way coachable talent, and Torts wanted to quit before it started anyways. He probably just felt he was going to lose the room after the pandemic playoffs and with the Dubois drama hanging overhead.

If it was the current roster then I'd be all about saying that Torts quit to avoid these bums but he actually quit on a much more coachable group than this.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

? Two of the most diligent defensive players in franchise history?

Looking back on it, that 2021 team was still loaded with good two-way coachable talent, and Torts wanted to quit before it started anyways. He probably just felt he was going to lose the room after the pandemic playoffs and with the Dubois drama hanging overhead.

If it was the current roster then I'd be all about saying that Torts quit to avoid these bums but he actually quit on a much more coachable group than this.

We’re they when Torts arrived?

 

[majormajor]

We’re they when Torts arrived?

I thought they were good defensively from the beginning. Or at least Wennberg was. Bjorkstrand hadn't developed his superb forecheck yet but he was getting good results in very limited minutes. There was a "Free Bjorkstrand" thing for a while.

 

[majormajor]

Then what about Rikard Grongborg or Steve Staios?

Staios made some great trades last year for the Hamilton Bulldogs, got McTavish and the guys that looks like his name is a wifi password. They lost in the Mem cup but had a good year. He won OHL GM OTY too.

He’s with the Oilers now, as a “special advisor”

All I can say is that Staois was one of my favorite Oilers circa 2006.

Viqsi wants us to identify GM replacements before we talk about canning Jarmo but i tend to find those conversations unproductive. We don't know enough. It's the same reason why talking about assistant coaches is a waste of time.

 

[CBJx614]

I just can't see Jarmo getting fired. They knew we over achieved last season and I don't truly believe Jarmo and JD are naive enough to believe we we're one player away from truly contending. They had to have planned for this possibility, which makes me think Larsen could just be a "fall guy". He gets a chance and if he's successful, perfect. If he's not, we get another high pick and Larsen is replaced for a known commodity.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I get the Bjork/Gudbransson thing was pure crap, but should at least see out the rebuild to the point where the first draft pieces are at an age where they're ready to make an impact before thinking about changing GM. The whole Jones trade hasn't even had time to make an positive impact because the players acquired are still so young. The trade is basically it's 1st pair D for nothing as things currently stand

How much longer and how many more retool/rebuild cycles should he get?

 

[Halberdier]

How much longer and how many more retool/rebuild cycles should he get?

Isn't this his second cycle? The first one ended up going all-in with a promising team, which as we all know, failed (unlike for 30 other teams that all did won the Stanley Cup that season).

 

[LJ7]

I want to keep Jarmo and his staff intact until the draft at least. After that I'm open to a new regime, but ownership is unlikely to replace him imo so we all better hope he finds a way to be viable in a world where Stan Bowman isn't running a team.

 

[Halberdier]

That said, and my PDF form isn’t updated, TONS of hypocrites around WANTED this exact change to the team, to a more “open/offensive/exciting style”.

Got what you asked for.

Tons of? I have yet to see any guys that wanted CBJ to be more "open" or "exciting" on their own d-zone. That's bollocks, that's stupid. That's also your favourite straw man.

Breakout play didn't work then, and it still doesn't work, so we didn't get what we asked for.

Neutral zone play is marginally better when attacking (which is something that was asked for), but nobody asked playing bad neutral zone play when defending.

Offensive zone play has been play-wise better 21-23 when compared to totally braindead 20-21. That was asked for.

What was never asked for was that the defensive zone play is "open and exciting", like that absolute crap here in the picture, where 3 forwards are way too low to keep their guys at blueline and yet way too high to make any difference in front of the net, creating huge voids on both down from blue line & in front of the net, and when Makar & his friends are on ice, that is almost a sure recipe for a goal against, just like happened here.

You can, and you should be "exciting and dangerous" (yet not over-committed, see Werenski on game 2,first goal against!!!) on OFFENSIVE ZONE, but you shouldn't be "open and exciting" on d-zone and when defending neutral zone.

Edit: there are countless teams on history that are really dull, boring and irritating (for the opponent) when they are defending (usually utilizing trap and 2-phase forecheck), and yet they are ultra quick on counter attacks and can be really "exciting" and effective on offensive zone. It should not be news in 2022.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

How much longer and how many more retool/rebuild cycles should he get?

Imo, this one, and if it doesnt result in a contender that's it.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I just can't see Jarmo getting fired. They knew we over achieved last season and I don't truly believe Jarmo and JD are naive enough to believe we we're one player away from truly contending. They had to have planned for this possibility, which makes me think Larsen could just be a "fall guy". He gets a chance and if he's successful, perfect. If he's not, we get another high pick and Larsen is replaced for a known commodity.

Hopefully ownership at some point talks to JD and Jarmo and simply says which coach do you need to be succesful (that is available) and goes and gets that person.
Larson was most likely an affordable option after Torts that they could dictate that they play a style of hockey that didn't look like Torts.
It's really tough (and others have said it) to be a CBJ fan...

 

[MAHJ71]

Quite the interview with Doug MacLean on NHL Radio this morning. Critical of how many rebuilds team has had, JD/Jarmo.. mentions ownership is very upset. Sees a 'disinterested team' that to him signals a big time change is needed and goes on to say that usually results in someone getting fired. Not exactly rocket science and who knows how much of it is based on actual fact but, came across in quite an interesting tone.. Wish I could link it.

 

[Viqsi]

Viqsi wants us to identify GM replacements before we talk about canning Jarmo but i tend to find those conversations unproductive. We don't know enough. It's the same reason why talking about assistant coaches is a waste of time.

I'm just trying to preemptively kill off the usual "hurr durr, anybody at all would be better lol" "fire somebody now and try actually fixing problems later" approach that inevitably arises with this nonsense.

 

[NotCommitted]

IMO Jarmo's job security probably largerly depends on what was the plan behind closed doors signing Larsen in the first place, what was talked about the Gaudreau signing and how that changed (or didn't) things.

If Larsen was supposed to be an 'in-between' guy (and a cheap one at that) in the first place and ownership was 100% on board for the Gaudreau signing, I don't see any of this reflecting that bad on Jarmo. OTOH, if Larsen is Jarmo's guy through and through and Jarmo sold the Gaudreau signing to ownership by pumping up expectations on how it drastically moves the timeline forward, I could see him getting the boot unless things take a turn very soon.

Roster building and imbalances are on Jarmo (though unexpectedly losing your young #1C is a tough one to bounce back from), but the team taking a step back from last season is on coaching. While there are many guys in the line up playing higher than they should in a good team, that doesn't explain the systemic inability to play defense.

Gudbranson might not be any good, and in fact has a history of being pretty bad, but he's never had anywhere close to this bad numbers and when a guy goes from having a pretty good season to having some of the worst numbers in the league with a team change, that's one more thing that makes you question coaching and the defensive system they are trying to implement (and Larsen seems to be about the only guy who actually has any idea what exactly that system is??)

Btw. speaking of numbers, the team has only 3 guys (who have seen any significant ice time) with a PDO of 1 or higher. While some of that is explained by the horrible lapses in D, they've also had really bad puck luck, the 1st line especially has ridiculously low oISH% for that level of offensive talent. It's not sustainable, if they keep creating chances like they are, sooner or later guys like Gaudreau & Laine will start to put the pucks in. Might be too late for Larsen or Jarmo though, and with the team as a whole playing like this, not sure how much that would show up in the win column. Though even 1 or 2 wins more would be a big difference.

 

[stevo61]

I'm just trying to preemptively kill off the usual "hurr durr, anybody at all would be better lol" "fire somebody now and try actually fixing problems later" approach that inevitably arises with this nonsense.

Its not our job to find the potential list of replacements. Weren't you strongly advocating for Kreuger but when he came back to the NHL it was a disaster? Or on the flip side I never thought of Brind'Amour as a potential NHL coach right away and now hes one of the best. Or Kevyn Adams/ Chris Drury as GMs, sometimes you take an educated guess. Almost like JD did when hiring Jarmo in the 1st place.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Hard to fire Jarmo. Looks like a Bond villain and who knows what weapon he might be building to destroy the sun.

 

[Viqsi]

Its not our job to find the potential list of replacements. Weren't you strongly advocating for Kreuger but when he came back to the NHL it was a disaster? Or on the flip side I never thought of Brind'Amour as a potential NHL coach right away and now hes one of the best. Or Kevyn Adams/ Chris Drury as GMs, sometimes you take an educated guess. Almost like JD did when hiring Jarmo in the 1st place.

I have no problem with educational guesses. Those are actual discussion. What I have a problem is folks just chanting "fire him fire him fire him" over and over.

I'd offer some of my own, except I'm a bit short on them 'cause I've not had the opportunity to do, like, any research at all as yet. I may come back with a few if things let up in the next week.