The Jarmo Thread

[Cowumbus]

Let's have a look at how the top 8 teams in the league got their 1Cs.

1. Boston - 2nd rounder

Boston being Boston.

2. Carolina - 2nd rounder

35th OA Finnish player, and 6 picks after Gabe Carlsson, and 3 picks before Paul Bittner. We gave up the 34th and 68th picks to move up and get Carlsson at 29.

3. New Jersey - 1stOA
4. Toronto - 1stOA

5. Tampa - 3rd rounder

Yep (although Stamkos was a C) Tampa has been great at drafting, or at least were with Yzerman.

6. NYR - traded for a 2C (that they got from us)

6OA.

7. Vegas - traded for a package

2OA.

8. Dallas - 2nd rounder

For a long time Seguin, but now Hintz. Dallas has been drafting well.

What do we do is if we don’t get a guaranteed star, everybody panic!!

Bc Jarmo has given you faith in finding one? In his 10 year tenure he has drafted 1 top 25 center, and that was with a 3OA pick. Jarmo has drafted 66 players rounds 1-7 (39% of all CBJ 1-7th round picks in history; in CBJ franchise history there have been 170 drafted players excluding the 8th and 9th rounds). We have traded away two #1C (4OA Johansen and Dubois), and in return have gotten Laine, Roslovic, Sillinger, Boqvist Jiricek. We tried to get a “2C” who could be a 1C (Zibanejad type) with Roslovic. Or was that what we tried to do with Will Karlsson?

 

[majormajor]

Boston being Boston.

35th OA Finnish player, and 6 picks after Gabe Carlsson, and 3 picks before Paul Bittner. We gave up the 34th and 68th picks to move up and get Carlsson at 29.


Yep (although Stamkos was a C) Tampa has been great at drafting, or at least were with Yzerman.

6OA.

2OA.

For a long time Seguin, but now Hintz. Dallas has been drafting well.


Bc Jarmo has given you faith in finding one? In his 10 year tenure he has drafted 1 top 25 center, and that was with a 3OA pick. Jarmo has drafted 66 players rounds 1-7 (39% of all CBJ 1-7th round picks in history; in CBJ franchise history there have been 170 drafted players excluding the 8th and 9th rounds). We have traded away two #1C (4OA Johansen and Dubois), and in return have gotten Laine, Roslovic, Sillinger, Boqvist Jiricek. We tried to get a “2C” who could be a 1C (Zibanejad type) with Roslovic. Or was that what we tried to do with Will Karlsson?

I'm not really in the mood to chat Jarmo, I was just making the point that a good percentage of 1Cs, maybe even most, weren't acquired by their current club by drafting at or near the top. It's on Jarmo to get one regardless of where (that and he might have recently found one at #5OA - from the tenor of your comments you seem to assume not).

 

[Cowumbus]

I'm not really in the mood to chat Jarmo, I was just making the point that a good percentage of 1Cs, maybe even most, weren't acquired by their current club by drafting at or near the top. It's on Jarmo to get one regardless of where (that and he might have recently found one at #5OA - from the tenor of your comments you seem to assume not).

I think KJ is our best bet, but they don’t play him at C. Maybe we should instead of Sillinger..

 

[majormajor]

I think KJ is our best bet, but they don’t play him at C. Maybe we should instead of Sillinger..

I don't mind the patience with KJ. He's still filling out.

The "C" in 1C I don't have much doubt with him. It's the "1" that I'm less sure of.

 

[EspenK]

Probably better suited for the draft thread but it fits here too. IN McKenzie's mid season rankings both Fantilli & Carlsson were described as a 1B or 2A center. Might be a moot point but it illustrates to me the difficulty of snagging a 1A center. Given the Jackets history with c's of any rank I'd settle for either.


Bob's (the scouts) MId-Season Rankings

 

[majormajor]

Probably better suited for the draft thread but it fits here too. IN McKenzie's mid season rankings both Fantilli & Carlsson were described as a 1B or 2A center. Might be a moot point but it illustrates to me the difficulty of snagging a 1A center. Given the Jackets history with c's of any rank I'd settle for either.


Bob's (the scouts) MId-Season Rankings

How many center prospects do you think he's called "1A" over the years? Maybe 3 in a decade?

 

[EspenK]

How many center prospects do you think he's called "1A" over the years? Maybe 3 in a decade?

Which confirms my point as to the difficulty of snagging a sure fire 1A in the draft. Thank you.

 

[CBJx614]

I don't mind the patience with KJ. He's still filling out.

The "C" in 1C I don't have much doubt with him. It's the "1" that I'm less sure of.

He's essentially playing center even when he's playing wing. This is a situation where id like to send KJ to Cleveland and see how he handles being "the guy" on that team. Yes he's too skilled and all that, but how does he handle the pressure of needing to produce? We don't have much to gain keeping him the NHL for 20 more games that we haven't seen already.

 

[614 CBJ]

It's not the city
It's not the facility
It's sure as hell not the fans
Losers of the highest caliber

Jarmo must Go

This organization is hot garbage and isn't changing until he is out

 

[BB88]

It's not the city
It's not the facility
It's sure as hell not the fans
Losers of the highest caliber

Jarmo must Go

This organization is hot garbage and isn't changing until he is out

Why?

 

[CBJx614]

It's not the city
It's not the facility
It's sure as hell not the fans
Losers of the highest caliber

Jarmo must Go

This organization is hot garbage and isn't changing until he is out

We've been tanking for month or two.. the roster is essentially an AHL roster with a few stars on it.

We don't have an NHL goalie on the roster.

So are you upset we won and we're not tanking enough?

Or are you upset that we're going full tank?! In which case you're a little late to the party.

 

[squashmaple]

It's not the city
It's not the facility
It's sure as hell not the fans
Losers of the highest caliber

Jarmo must Go

This organization is hot garbage and isn't changing until he is out

Okay, hot shot. You're up. You get to be GM from today going forward. You're obviously an expert on roster construction, drafting, and the legal nuances of the CBA. Congrats on the new job you worked your whole life for and are for sure qualified to hold! Don't **** it up.

 

[BB88]

I still don’t understand why Jarmo should get fired today.
It’s year 2 of rebuild.

- Johnson, looks like a legit future star
- Jiricek, a franchise prospect (1D)
- Signed a true superstar for under 10M, for few millions less than Panarin went
- Marchenko, looks like a legit top6W
- Chinakhov, longterm top6/9 W
- Svozil, Dumais, 2 really good looking late picks
- Another 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds, including 2 1st round picks
- As long as they pick in the top5 will be adding a better prospect than either PLD/Johnson
- Worst contracts on the roster carry 5&4M cap hits, pretty good for ”anchor” contracts, this league is filled with 6-10M anchors.

If he fails this offseason completely then let’s talk again.
But today there’s far too many promising things going on to start messing with the management

 

[JacketsDavid]

I still don’t understand why Jarmo should get fired today.
It’s year 2 of rebuild.

- Johnson, looks like a legit future star
- Jiricek, a franchise prospect (1D)
- Signed a true superstar for under 10M, for few millions less than Panarin went
- Marchenko, looks like a legit top6W
- Chinakhov, longterm top6/9 W
- Svozil, Dumais, 2 really good looking late picks
- Another 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds, including 2 1st round picks
- As long as they pick in the top5 will be adding a better prospect than either PLD/Johnson
- Worst contracts on the roster carry 5&4M cap hits, pretty good for ”anchor” contracts, this league is filled with 6-10M anchors.

If he fails this offseason completely then let’s talk again.
But today there’s far too many promising things going on to start messing with the management

It's his 9th full year.
He went all in one year and won one series. That's the hi lite after 9 seasons. That's the one good team after 9 years.
Making the playoffs isn't a big deal half the teams do it every year. He also inherited a decent roster, not like it was trash.
I get it he wins trades. But again a GMs role isn't to win trades it's to build Championship teams. THere is a reason we kept on running into top seeds in the playoffs - we got in as a wild card about every year we did sneak in.
Along the way he's made a ton of questionable signings. Plus the Horton signing (wherever that fault belongs on not inuring it). He's ticked off a ton a his young players while he had the "hammer" in negotiating. More guys have asked in than have wanted to come aboard.
Listen if you're happy to win trades - he's your guy. I just don't think he's the guy to take us anywhere as a franchise.

 

[BB88]

It's his 9th full year.
He went all in one year and won one series. That's the hi lite after 9 seasons. That's the one good team after 9 years.
Making the playoffs isn't a big deal half the teams do it every year. He also inherited a decent roster, not like it was trash.
I get it he wins trades. But again a GMs role isn't to win trades it's to build Championship teams. THere is a reason we kept on running into top seeds in the playoffs - we got in as a wild card about every year we did sneak in.
Along the way he's made a ton of questionable signings. Plus the Horton signing (wherever that fault belongs on not inuring it). He's ticked off a ton a his young players while he had the "hammer" in negotiating. More guys have asked in than have wanted to come aboard.
Listen if you're happy to win trades - he's your guy. I just don't think he's the guy to take us anywhere as a franchise.

We are talking about their rebuild now.

You have major concerns on how it’s been handled?
Every Gm makes mistakes, what’s important is to learn from them.

Since they’ve started their rebuild I don’t find enough red flags to start making massive changes.
They have a plan in place and with what they’ve done in the last 2 years you let them see that visiot out.
Again unless they really ….. up the offseason, then I start changing my mind

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

I am of the opinion Jarmo and JD have laid out a plan to ownership that has the CBJ competing for the playoffs next year and competing for the Cup the year after. I think this because Jarmo said it in public.

Obviously those goals are purposefully vague in order to give them a little wiggle room which I believe this ownership group would likely give them.

If we miss the playoffs the next two years, I don't see how ownership can justify extending Jarmo in 2025 and I think JD would probably retire. If we do make the playoffs in the next two years, I don't see how ownership wouldn't extend Jarmo.

The only thing that would change my opinion on this is if JD decides to leave before the end of 2024. I could see ownership bumping Jarmo up to President if he had at least one year left on his deal. I do not see ownership doing that if Jarmo has less than one year left on his deal unless he has already accomplished some of the goals in his plan.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I am of the opinion Jarmo and JD have laid out a plan to ownership that has the CBJ competing for the playoffs next year and competing for the Cup the year after. I think this because Jarmo said it in public.

Obviously those goals are purposefully vague in order to give them a little wiggle room which I believe this ownership group would likely give them.

If we miss the playoffs the next two years, I don't see how ownership can justify extending Jarmo in 2025 and I think JD would probably retire. If we do make the playoffs in the next two years, I don't see how ownership wouldn't extend Jarmo.

The only thing that would change my opinion on this is if JD decides to leave before the end of 2024. I could see ownership bumping Jarmo up to President if he had at least one year left on his deal. I do not see ownership doing that if Jarmo has less than one year left on his deal unless he has already accomplished some of the goals in his plan.

Remember when Mr Mac said he would walk across the Scioto (Year 2)...
These guys will always say next year - it just depends on if you buy it or not.

 

[JacketsDavid]

We are talking about their rebuild now.

You have major concerns on how it’s been handled?
Every Gm makes mistakes, what’s important is to learn from them.

Since they’ve started their rebuild I don’t find enough red flags to start making massive changes.
They have a plan in place and with what they’ve done in the last 2 years you let them see that visiot out.
Again unless they really ….. up the offseason, then I start changing my mind

Ok so forget about the previous 7 years. Got it...

Last 2 years have been great:
-A lot players wanted out, including the head coach.
-We hired a terrible head coach. Tank-a-rific hire!
-We didn't address the Center Position or 1st pairing dman this past offseason - tha worked beautifully if the plan was to tank.
-Our goalie who we hoped would play better got worse. Again brilliant plan for the tank.
-We're fighting for the worst record in the NHL. Likely wn't get it, but hey its not because we didn't tank.

On the plus side:
-Johnny G did come here (willingly which was a surprise). Good news is he will have plenty of extra time for his family.
-Marchenko and Johnson look like keepers.
-We have plenty of cap room and lot of picks

 

[CBJWerenski8]

IIRC, around the trade deadline jarmo said on BSO that the timeline was to be competitive next year and a playoff team the year after that. I can try to find the clip, but I’m fairly certain that’s what he said.

So, if that’s true, he thinks we’re two years away from being an actual playoff team. With us being improved and maybe sneaking in next year.

 

[DarkandStormy]

IIRC, around the trade deadline jarmo said on BSO that the timeline was to be competitive next year and a playoff team the year after that. I can try to find the clip, but I’m fairly certain that’s what he said.

So, if that’s true, he thinks we’re two years away from being an actual playoff team. With us being improved and maybe sneaking in next year.

I think that's right (it's ringing a bell, at least).

I believe his contract his up after '24-'25. I think if this team misses the playoffs in '24 and '25 for reasons beyond 500+ man games lost, then his contract won't be renewed and they'll replace him in the summer of '25.

It gets trickier if this team is the 2nd WC and sputters out in the 1st round, but we can cross that bridge if/when we get there.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

It's his 9th full year.
He went all in one year and won one series. That's the hi lite after 9 seasons. That's the one good team after 9 years.

they made the playoffs four years in a row (and five times overall in jarmo's nine years) and one of those years they had the fourth best record in the entire league lol

it's not one linear project, it's different projects/phases. playoff teams in bold
1. first (inherited) rebuild: 12-13, 13-14, 14-15
2. torts era: 15-16, 16-17, 17-18, 18-19, 19-20
3. second rebuild: 20-21*, 21-22, 22-23

*still had torts in 20-21, but the PLD trade forced a second rebuild

honestly jarmo's weakest phase was the first one. the second phase saw big moves that opened/improved their contention window (johansen for jones, futures for saad, saad for panarin).

the PLD trade tantrum triggered the third phase. at that point, the job doesn't become "make this team win now" it becomes "get assets we can build around" which he's done a great job at!

they turned two star players who didn't want to stay (PLD + jones) and a handful of expiring UFAs (foligno, savard, gavrikov, korpisalo) into a star player (laine), four first round picks (sillinger, ceulemans, jiricek, LAK 23), and three more guys (boqvist, bean, roslovic) who were recent firsts with upside. not gonna bat 1.000 on those guys but they did quite well.

that's on top of the biggest signing in franchise history (gaudreau) and drafting well outside the first round over the last few years (marchenko, voronkov, dumais, svozil, del bel belluz) and getting some undrafted UFAs who have stepped in to contribute (danforth, blankenburg, mckown).

they basically did a full tear-down in 2021, and now have a ton of young talent. you can't win with just young talent, but they're in a prime position to re-shape the roster through trades this summer and accelerate the timeline.

there aren't many other GMs who could've navigated the post-panarin/PLD landscape as well as jarmo has imo.

Making the playoffs isn't a big deal half the teams do it every year. He also inherited a decent roster, not like it was trash.

jarmo took over in february 2013. the jackets were in last place in their division when he took over iirc. they'd also finished last in their division in each of the previous three years, and were last in the entire league in the 11-12 season.

He's ticked off a ton a his young players while he had the "hammer" in negotiating.

he has ticked off two young RFAs: josh anderson and ryan johansen. (pld doesn't count here, he simply wants to go to MTL as winnipeg is seeing now)

jarmo got both of them to (eventually) agree to below-market bridge deals. johansen got traded for seth jones, who signed a sweetheart deal and then got moved six years later for a HAUL. anderson got moved for a more productive player (domi) and a third round pick.

both anderson and johansen then immediately signed absurd long-term deals with their new teams.

i'm not saying jarmo was 100% in the right there, but they got surplus value on the bridge deals, then more value through trade (a lot more, in johansen's case) and avoided signing two boat anchor contracts in the process. that's a good end result!

 

[BB88]

Ok so forget about the previous 7 years. Got it...

Last 2 years have been great:
-A lot players wanted out, including the head coach.
-We hired a terrible head coach. Tank-a-rific hire!
-We didn't address the Center Position or 1st pairing dman this past offseason - tha worked beautifully if the plan was to tank.
-Our goalie who we hoped would play better got worse. Again brilliant plan for the tank.
-We're fighting for the worst record in the NHL. Likely wn't get it, but hey its not because we didn't tank.

On the plus side:
-Johnny G did come here (willingly which was a surprise). Good news is he will have plenty of extra time for his family.
-Marchenko and Johnson look like keepers.
-We have plenty of cap room and lot of picks

Yes we should right now pretty much ignore it because they started a rebuild 2 years ago, so if you want to fire Jarmo right now and not allow him to see through this rebuild tell me why.

& 1st of as I read your post I have to ask do you know what a rebuild is?
On the mains Detroit fans love to talk about how rebuild through draft is goint to take 10 years and according to you Jarmo should have finished the rebuild after 1 year…..

- Hasn’t addressed the C or defense?
Johnson looks like a legit future star who could very well end up being the 1C moving forward.
Didn’t address the defense? Drafted Jiricek who’s a franchise prospect, on top of Mateychuk, Svozil, Ceulemans.

Show me a Gm who rebuilds a team via draft in one year and competes on year 2 of rebuild?
Show me a early phase rebuilding team who could survive the amount of injuries they are having?

Your expectations for rebuilding team isn’t realistic at all, your demand is impossible to fullfill in one year.

-They have drafted Johnson, Sillinger, Del Bel Belluz, Voronkov to address the C.
-They have drafted Jiricek, Mateychuk, Ceulemans, Svozil to address the defense.
- They’ll add potentially the best prospect in franchise history this draft.

So they have tried to address your main concerns at the draft.
They also have on top of them Gaudreau, Laine, Werenski, Marchenko, Jenner under controll.

It’s again impossible to address every issue in 1 year& getting a 1C is the most difficult to acquire in this league, it just doesn’t happen like that.

After this draft they are set to be in the best position they have ever been but go on and start messing with it because that’s smart

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Hasn’t addressed the C or defense?
Johnson looks like a legit future star who could very well end up being the 1C moving forward.
Didn’t address the defense? Drafted Jiricek who’s a franchise prospect, on top of Mateychuk, Svozil, Ceulemans.

100% agreed, but wanted to add – friedman said the jackets were making a 'big push' for kadri before the gaudreau thing happened. not saying this is 100% what happened but it kinda seems like they ended up having to choose gaudreau over kadri, which is – obviously! – the right choice.

there are also swings they have taken that were worth the try on talent alone (bean, roslovic) but haven't worked out simply because no GM bats 1.000 in this league.

they've also been connected to kirby dach (before he was moved to MTL), kevin hayes and evgeny kuznetsov at center, and obviously chychrun, romanov and mcdonagh at defense. funny enough, dach and romanov were both traded for the same pick (13th overall - one pick after mateychuk) in separate deals.

it's easy to say "they haven't addressed center or defense" but that's not 100% true. they've taken swings and pursued guys in the trade/free agent market who could address those positions. sometimes the cost just isn't worth it.

i much prefer the current trajectory to the 'what-if' one where they traded the mateychuk pick for romanov and overpaid kadri instead of signing gaudreau, even if the alternative would've checked the 'more important' boxes.

It’s again impossible to address every issue in 1 year& getting a 1C is the most difficult to acquire in this league, it just doesn’t happen like that.

there are two ways to get a 1C in this league:
1. draft one at the top of the draft
2. stockpile assets for a godfather offer and hope one becomes available via trade

by holding off on making center moves (simply for the sake of checking a box) last summer, they're in a better position for both of those routes to getting a 1C.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Yes we should right now pretty much ignore it because they started a rebuild 2 years ago, so if you want to fire Jarmo right now and not allow him to see through this rebuild tell me why.

Because he's not a very good GM.

 

[Youngguns1380]

I want to clarify one point - a lot of posts here say Jarmo took swings at certain players for center or defense. While all good (that is what you are supposed to do as a GM), you have to land some or else its all effort with no results. In any job you have an annual review and you are graded on a standard set of items that are your job. The part of that standard is you have to win some to be a “meets” to achieve an exceeds you have to win in most items of being a GM.

I would say Jarmo is below a meets for me right now. Here are my reasons:

1. Ran back the same personnel and coaching other than adding Gubranson and Olivier, while not addressing Goals Against. This was his major point at the end of last season.

2. Rushed players to the NHL (i.e., Sillinger) and didn’t send him down when he was clearly struggling.

3. Signing Gudbranson (not blaming Gudbranson) but woof that was not good.

4. Managing the CAP and trading Bjorkstrand instead of another player.

5. Handling contracts (i.e., hammer) in a way that is very off putting to parties involved (i.e., Gavrikov). Then handing out contracts to others where is overpays on monies and/or term (Roslovic, Gubranson)

6. Messaging - he says publicly retool and slides into a rebuild. He says we are going to use the cap as a weapon (hint don’t say anything and explain when you do it). Saying Goals Against was a major concern and whether he meant to or not leading people to believe it would be addressed (not just draft) for the Team this season.

7. Questionable hires - Larsen and McCarthy.

I am not on the bandwagon to fire him yet and but this off-season is the major deciding factor for me whether we part ways with him or let him see the plan through.