The Jarmo Thread

[Viqsi]

Jarmo has made some really good trades but why does he get major credit for drafting guys like Johnson and Jiricek and signing Gaudreau? That's like giving credit to a GM for picking McKinnon or Matthews. More than 90% of the GMs in the league would be making the same moves so while I would absolutely give Jarmo credit for getting what he did for Jones he deserves zero credit for assembling a garbage on-ice product to get a high draft pick these past couple seasons. And saying wow look at the Gaudreau signing? A potato could have made that signing given how that all played out.

If any other GM in the league would have done that, why didn't they and thus leave us without those guys?

Seriously, I am so f***ing done with this kind of "all blame for the bad, zero credit for the good" reasoning.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Jarmo isn't going anywhere. I think most people know/believe that, but I just wanted to put it out there.

He's basically the same GM he was 5-10 years ago. Great at trades, bad roster management, decent cap management, terrible UFA signings (seriously has the only ones that worked out been Gagner and Gaudreau?), overrated but not terrible at drafting, etc.

He's probably a middle of the road GM. Which fits, because as a whole his W/L record is probably near the middle of the pack as well.

He's really good at collecting talent but not very good at building a team. This is also the coaches fault, but the coach was also hired by him, so.

 

[EspenK]

Pretty good summation of Jarmo's performance but I still don't think he is great at trades. Would he have traded Jones if Jones was willing to extend? Would he have been able to obtain Panarin if there weren't cap issues in Chicago? And as far as getting 1's at the trade deadline that is pretty much what is always the other side of the trade. I'd give him a good but not great and even the good results from him not screwing up the opportunities.

Biggest black mark on his record is the push for the playoffs run. No one will ever convince me that was brilliant GMing.

As for his team building if he doesn't screw it up I think he is currently on the right track.

 

[JacketsDavid]

It's not like the team was essentially forced into this rebuild by Jarmo's actions. They were forced into it by the actions of Panarin, PLD, and Jones who made their own individual choices.

Jarmo has shown himself capable of identifying and acquiring talent. At some point, it comes down to the assembled players to choose to stay.

So Jarmo (the GM - who traded for and drafted those players) has no accountability for players wanting out?
Gosh every one should be so lucky to have a job where your actions don't have consequences.

 

[JacketsDavid]

So again what have they done so horrible wrong during their rebuild so far for you to have zero trust on them to get the job done?

Well the team has not shown the ability to develop young players. Every once in a while you get a Zach W. But in most cases we draft in the top 10 and the player doesn't pan out (usually because we rush them or expect them to play too high on the roster due to having a bad roster OR we stick them on a line with no talent and they don't develop). You have to put the prospects in the right situations and we usually fuble that.
So accumulating all these draft picks is great in theory but I have little faith in our ability to draft and develop. Prime example is Sillinger. Many/most on here penciled him in as a top 6 Center (same thing we're all thinking on Johnson) and look how that is going.

 

[BluejacketNut]

jk roster management has brought us 1 playoff series win in 9 years. just making the playoffs is an extremely low bar to be considered a success when half the teams In the league make the playoffs. For those wanting to continue with JK, do you have a breaking point? Are you still sticking with him if we go another 5 years without a playoff series win?

 

[Crede777]

So Jarmo (the GM - who traded for and drafted those players) has no accountability for players wanting out?
Gosh every one should be so lucky to have a job where your actions don't have consequences.

He has accountability to the extent that he could convince them to stay for market value. But to the extent that he cannot change their minds without massively overpaying and hurting the team in other ways, no he is not accountable for things outside of his control.

 

[Monk]

Are you still sticking with him if we go another 5 years without a playoff series win?

It's just not that simple. So, maybe?

 

[koteka]

My biggest issue is the front office is too reactionary and seems to lack a plan. They are great at reacting (signing Gaudreau, trading PLD, trading Jones). At some point you need to have an idea about the type of roster you are constructing and how you want them to play. I don’t see that.

I don’t even need to point out that we don’t have a top line center or a second line center or a goalie or a dependable defensive partner for Werenski to show there is no plan.

Lets talk about our future defense. Here are the long term options on the team - Werenski 6’2”, Jiricek 6’3”, Mateychuk 5’10”, Svozil 6’0”, Boqvist 5’11”, Peeke 6’3”, Bean 6’1”, Knazko 6’1”.

I think our potential future defense is too small. I don’t consider Jiricek and Werenski big guys - I consider them slightly above average size for defensemen. I think Boqvist and Mateychuk are small. You can have one of those guys but not two. I think we need a couple of solidly built 6’5 or 6’6” in our top 5 D if we are going to be team that legitimately challenges for the Cup. Where are those guys? We aren’t drafting or developing them. I also don’t think we have guys that focus enough on defense.

It is such a Jackets thing to get to the third round of the draft and grab 6’1” Knazko because he has “fallen”. People talk about how well Jarmo did drafting this guy. Is Knazko what we needed with that pick? It seems like a great reaction move but not a great long-term planning move. Knazko gets to Cleveland and becomes a healthy scratch when half the defense is in Columbus. Meanwhile we bring up undrafted 6’2” Billy Sweezy because we are in desperate need of some size and toughness with Gudbranson out.

I am in the fire everyone camp. I think Jarmo is an ok GM who has made some good moves. I think it is time to move on.

 

[Monk]

My biggest issue is the front office is too reactionary and seems to lack a plan. They are great at reacting (signing Gaudreau, trading PLD, trading Jones). At some point you need to have an idea about the type of roster you are constructing and how you want them to play. I don’t see that.

I don’t even need to point out that we don’t have a top line center or a second line center or a goalie or a dependable defensive partner for Werenski to show there is no plan.

Lets talk about our future defense. Here are the long term options on the team - Werenski 6’2”, Jiricek 6’3”, Mateychuk 5’10”, Svozil 6’0”, Boqvist 5’11”, Peeke 6’3”, Bean 6’1”, Knazko 6’1”.

I think our potential future defense is too small. I don’t consider Jiricek and Werenski big guys - I consider them slightly above average size for defensemen. I think Boqvist and Mateychuk are small. You can have one of those guys but not two. I think we need a couple of solidly built 6’5 or 6’6” in our top 5 D if we are going to be team that legitimately challenges for the Cup. Where are those guys? We aren’t drafting or developing them. I also don’t think we have guys that focus enough on defense.

It is such a Jackets thing to get to the third round of the draft and grab 6’1” Knazko because he has “fallen”. People talk about how well Jarmo did drafting this guy. Is Knazko what we needed with that pick? It seems like a great reaction move but not a great long-term planning move. Knazko gets to Cleveland and becomes a healthy scratch when half the defense is in Columbus. Meanwhile we bring up undrafted 6’2” Billy Sweezy because we are in desperate need of some size and toughness with Gudbranson out.

I am in the fire everyone camp. I think Jarmo is an ok GM who has made some good moves. I think it is time to move on.

You want them to pass on BPA due to height? I just can't wrap my mind around some of these takes. It's like folks want change for the sake of it, and then back into random reasons to justify. Aren't all the Norris candidates of late like 5'10"?

 

[stevo61]

My biggest issue is the front office is too reactionary and seems to lack a plan. They are great at reacting (signing Gaudreau, trading PLD, trading Jones). At some point you need to have an idea about the type of roster you are constructing and how you want them to play. I don’t see that.

I don’t even need to point out that we don’t have a top line center or a second line center or a goalie or a dependable defensive partner for Werenski to show there is no plan.

Lets talk about our future defense. Here are the long term options on the team - Werenski 6’2”, Jiricek 6’3”, Mateychuk 5’10”, Svozil 6’0”, Boqvist 5’11”, Peeke 6’3”, Bean 6’1”, Knazko 6’1”.

I think our potential future defense is too small. I don’t consider Jiricek and Werenski big guys - I consider them slightly above average size for defensemen. I think Boqvist and Mateychuk are small. You can have one of those guys but not two. I think we need a couple of solidly built 6’5 or 6’6” in our top 5 D if we are going to be team that legitimately challenges for the Cup. Where are those guys? We aren’t drafting or developing them. I also don’t think we have guys that focus enough on defense.

It is such a Jackets thing to get to the third round of the draft and grab 6’1” Knazko because he has “fallen”. People talk about how well Jarmo did drafting this guy. Is Knazko what we needed with that pick? It seems like a great reaction move but not a great long-term planning move. Knazko gets to Cleveland and becomes a healthy scratch when half the defense is in Columbus. Meanwhile we bring up undrafted 6’2” Billy Sweezy because we are in desperate need of some size and toughness with Gudbranson out.

I am in the fire everyone camp. I think Jarmo is an ok GM who has made some good moves. I think it is time to move on.

Super weird comment to me. I mean we literally just watched the Avs win a Stanley Cup with 0 6'5+ guys. Montreal made it to the finals once with an under skilled but large defensive group who got away with a lot in the playoffs but even still they only succeeded because of the guy in goal.
Complaining about a 3rd rounder that has already proven more than I expected? That makes no sense. Who should have drafted? Should we go back to the days when everyone just drafted the biggest defenseman because they think they will be the one to find the next Chara?

 

[koteka]

You want them to pass on BPA due to height? I just can't wrap my mind around some of these takes. It's like folks want change for the sake of it, and then back into random reasons to justify. Aren't all the Norris candidates of late like 5'10"?

I want them to go through our future roster and figure out what they need and try to get those guys.

There are lots of options. If there is nobody in that range that fits your needs, then maybe you trade back. Or you draft the guy and then don’t draft Svozil. Or you trade back the Mateychuk pick because you have a system full of smaller offensive minded left D and draft Bichsel.

A lot of the moves look pretty good on their own. Picking Knazko looked smart at the time. But step and look at how the roster (both now and for the future) is constructed, and it appears to me we made a bunch of individual good moves to end up with a bad situation.

We have lots of talented wings but no center. We have lots of smaller offensive left D porospects but no serious goalie prospect. At some point you have to step back and investigate why this is. My assessment is they don’t have an overarching plan and make each move independently of each other.

 

[CBJx614]

Well the team has not shown the ability to develop young players. Every once in a while you get a Zach W. But in most cases we draft in the top 10 and the player doesn't pan out (usually because we rush them or expect them to play too high on the roster due to having a bad roster OR we stick them on a line with no talent and they don't develop). You have to put the prospects in the right situations and we usually fuble that.
So accumulating all these draft picks is great in theory but I have little faith in our ability to draft and develop. Prime example is Sillinger. Many/most on here penciled him in as a top 6 Center (same thing we're all thinking on Johnson) and look how that is going.

Texier, Marchenko, Elvis, Gavrikov, potentially Voronkov, Tarasov, Robinson. And now even a guy like Foudy is starting to gain some traction.

My biggest issue is the front office is too reactionary and seems to lack a plan. They are great at reacting (signing Gaudreau, trading PLD, trading Jones). At some point you need to have an idea about the type of roster you are constructing and how you want them to play. I don’t see that.

I don’t even need to point out that we don’t have a top line center or a second line center or a goalie or a dependable defensive partner for Werenski to show there is no plan.

Lets talk about our future defense. Here are the long term options on the team - Werenski 6’2”, Jiricek 6’3”, Mateychuk 5’10”, Svozil 6’0”, Boqvist 5’11”, Peeke 6’3”, Bean 6’1”, Knazko 6’1”.

I think our potential future defense is too small. I don’t consider Jiricek and Werenski big guys - I consider them slightly above average size for defensemen. I think Boqvist and Mateychuk are small. You can have one of those guys but not two. I think we need a couple of solidly built 6’5 or 6’6” in our top 5 D if we are going to be team that legitimately challenges for the Cup. Where are those guys? We aren’t drafting or developing them. I also don’t think we have guys that focus enough on defense.

It is such a Jackets thing to get to the third round of the draft and grab 6’1” Knazko because he has “fallen”. People talk about how well Jarmo did drafting this guy. Is Knazko what we needed with that pick? It seems like a great reaction move but not a great long-term planning move. Knazko gets to Cleveland and becomes a healthy scratch when half the defense is in Columbus. Meanwhile we bring up undrafted 6’2” Billy Sweezy because we are in desperate need of some size and toughness with Gudbranson out.

I am in the fire everyone camp. I think Jarmo is an ok GM who has made some good moves. I think it is time to move on.

We just drafted a 6'7 winger, that's all the size we need!

 

[koteka]

Complaining about a 3rd rounder that has already proven more than I expected? That makes no sense. Who should have drafted?

It is not about individual moves. It is about all the moves. Was Knazko the right pick? It looked good at the time. Was Svozil a good pick? Was Mateychuk a good pick? All I know is we know have landed at a spot with a bunch of smaller offensive minded left D prospects and everyone is clamoring to sign a big defensively minded left D to replace Gavi, like Ryan Graves. Yet we have no Ryan Graves type draft picks in the last several years. To me, something seems broken. Meanwhile, Knazko is a healthy scratch and slightly bigger and tougher Sweezy gets some NHL games because we are desperate. Do you think that we are a well run team?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

My biggest issue is the front office is too reactionary and seems to lack a plan. They are great at reacting (signing Gaudreau, trading PLD, trading Jones). At some point you need to have an idea about the type of roster you are constructing and how you want them to play. I don’t see that.

I don’t even need to point out that we don’t have a top line center or a second line center or a goalie or a dependable defensive partner for Werenski to show there is no plan.

Lets talk about our future defense. Here are the long term options on the team - Werenski 6’2”, Jiricek 6’3”, Mateychuk 5’10”, Svozil 6’0”, Boqvist 5’11”, Peeke 6’3”, Bean 6’1”, Knazko 6’1”.

I think our potential future defense is too small. I don’t consider Jiricek and Werenski big guys - I consider them slightly above average size for defensemen. I think Boqvist and Mateychuk are small. You can have one of those guys but not two. I think we need a couple of solidly built 6’5 or 6’6” in our top 5 D if we are going to be team that legitimately challenges for the Cup. Where are those guys? We aren’t drafting or developing them. I also don’t think we have guys that focus enough on defense.

It is such a Jackets thing to get to the third round of the draft and grab 6’1” Knazko because he has “fallen”. People talk about how well Jarmo did drafting this guy. Is Knazko what we needed with that pick? It seems like a great reaction move but not a great long-term planning move. Knazko gets to Cleveland and becomes a healthy scratch when half the defense is in Columbus. Meanwhile we bring up undrafted 6’2” Billy Sweezy because we are in desperate need of some size and toughness with Gudbranson out.

I am in the fire everyone camp. I think Jarmo is an ok GM who has made some good moves. I think it is time to move on.

1) They don't have a plan.

2) They have assembled a group of skilled but undersized (in your opinion) defensemen.

You're saying these two things aren't related?

 

[Heavy Metal Jackets]

They may not be all good prospects at the moment but they've been drafting size at defense. Ceulemans, Richard, Bjorgvik-Holm, and Hjorth are all at least 6'2".

 

[Monstershockey]

Size doesn't matter... or so I've heard.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Pretty good summation of Jarmo's performance but I still don't think he is great at trades. Would he have traded Jones if Jones was willing to extend? Would he have been able to obtain Panarin if there weren't cap issues in Chicago? And as far as getting 1's at the trade deadline that is pretty much what is always the other side of the trade. I'd give him a good but not great and even the good results from him not screwing up the opportunities.

Biggest black mark on his record is the push for the playoffs run. No one will ever convince me that was brilliant GMing.

As for his team building if he doesn't screw it up I think he is currently on the right track.

Isn’t taking advantage of other teams misfortune/stupidity a positive? He would have signed Jones if he could. Everyone knew he wanted to test the market, and he still got two firsts for him. I will admit, that one was a bit lucky as Chicago was trying to cling to their window with Toews and Kane, but still. The Saad and Panarin deals were great moves. Everyone credits George McPhee for taking advantage of teams (including us) for Vegas expansion draft, why does jarmo not get that benefit?

What if I told you that none of the players Ottawa got from us in the Duchene/dzingel deals were in the NHL? What if I told you that the two prospects we gave them have left the country all together? What if I told you two of the prospects they picked with our 2nds are no longer on their team? What if I told you only 1 player remains in their organization from those two deals and he’s in the minors?

We gave up almost nothing for Duchene and gave up nothing but Duclair (who they threw away too) for Dzingel. So putting that as a black mark for jarmo is a bit odd.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So Jarmo (the GM - who traded for and drafted those players) has no accountability for players wanting out?

It would depend on the reason for them wanting out, right? Or is that immaterial?

 

[GettingYourMoms]

My biggest issue is the front office is too reactionary and seems to lack a plan. They are great at reacting (signing Gaudreau, trading PLD, trading Jones). At some point you need to have an idea about the type of roster you are constructing and how you want them to play. I don’t see that.

I don’t even need to point out that we don’t have a top line center or a second line center or a goalie or a dependable defensive partner for Werenski to show there is no plan.

Lets talk about our future defense. Here are the long term options on the team - Werenski 6’2”, Jiricek 6’3”, Mateychuk 5’10”, Svozil 6’0”, Boqvist 5’11”, Peeke 6’3”, Bean 6’1”, Knazko 6’1”.

I think our potential future defense is too small. I don’t consider Jiricek and Werenski big guys - I consider them slightly above average size for defensemen. I think Boqvist and Mateychuk are small. You can have one of those guys but not two. I think we need a couple of solidly built 6’5 or 6’6” in our top 5 D if we are going to be team that legitimately challenges for the Cup. Where are those guys? We aren’t drafting or developing them. I also don’t think we have guys that focus enough on defense.

It is such a Jackets thing to get to the third round of the draft and grab 6’1” Knazko because he has “fallen”. People talk about how well Jarmo did drafting this guy. Is Knazko what we needed with that pick? It seems like a great reaction move but not a great long-term planning move. Knazko gets to Cleveland and becomes a healthy scratch when half the defense is in Columbus. Meanwhile we bring up undrafted 6’2” Billy Sweezy because we are in desperate need of some size and toughness with Gudbranson out.

I am in the fire everyone camp. I think Jarmo is an ok GM who has made some good moves. I think it is time to move on.

I can see Jarmo drafting Jakub Dvorak, huge( six foot five) fast skating defensive defenseman in second round.

 

[koteka]

They may not be all good prospects at the moment but they've been drafting size at defense. Ceulemans, Richard, Bjorgvik-Holm, and Hjorth are all at least 6'2".

Those are 6’2” and 6’3”. None of those guys is 6’4” to 6’6”. I want a couple of big dudes that play defense and hit. We aren’t drafting defensive guys the size of Graves or Dumoulin, yet a lot of people want a D like Graves or Doumelin. I want a couple of big, defensive oriented guys so the guys we have like Werenski or Mateychuk or Boqvist are free to play offense.

 

[BluejacketNut]

It's just not that simple. So, maybe?

If after 14 years and only 1 playoff series win and you’re still only a maybe, then I don’t know what to say

 

[koteka]

1) They don't have a plan.

2) They have assembled a group of skilled but undersized (in your opinion) defensemen.

You're saying these two things aren't related?

I think we see a good deal and take it. I don’t think the plan was accumulate wings instead of centers or get a whole bunch of small left D prospects. PLD for Laine and Roslovic. Good deal. Knazko in the third round. Good deal. But because there is no plan a series of “good deals” doesn’t make for a winning hockey team.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think we see a good deal and take it. I don’t think the plan was accumulate wings instead of centers or get a whole bunch of small left D prospects. PLD for Laine and Roslovic. Good deal. Knazko in the third round. Good deal. But because there is no plan a series of “good deals” doesn’t make for a winning hockey team.

So you're saying the assembling of a potential future roster of small(er) defenseman who share certain traits as far as their on-ice abilities goes is not evidence of a plan?

 

[Monk]

My assessment is they don’t have an overarching plan and make each move independently of each other.

I don't know how anyone could possibly make such an assessment with the information at hand. And it just makes no damn sense.