The future of international hockey

[jj cale]

I don't get this, speaking as a Canadian fan, seeing as though we are the inventors of the sport and took it into our collective hearts before anyone else did and have a history with and cherishing of the game like no other country in the history of the sport, don't you think as fans we have as much a right as any to have an opinion on international hockey?

I always get this feeling from European fans as a collective that we are somehow evil or lesser then the enlightened and morally pure European fans concerning their opinion on the sport.

Figure that one out.

And if I hear one more fan from there cite football as a shining example of how we should do things in hockey I think I am going to get ill, I don't care what they do in football and in many cases I would be very concerned if we just followed their lead, not all has been well with Fifa and the sport over the years.

 

[NyQuil]

And if I hear one more fan from there cite football as a shining example of how we should do things in hockey I think I am going to get ill, I don't care what they do in football and in many cases I would be very concerned if we just followed their lead, not all has been well with Fifa and the sport over the years.

Yeah, let's take notes from the most corrupt sporting organization on the planet.

The fact that Canada assembles a team for the Spengler Cup every year once again speaks to the amount of national pride in the sport, regardless of where they may be playing and who may be filling out their paycheques.

 

[Lambo]

Well that's an overall "NHL-NA problem" in my eyes. How happy I was a year ago to have a chance to see the new Finnish generation play together. But unfortunately things turned out differently. The typically special circumstances in the NHL, etc. To be honest, I don't give a damn now. Best on Best? Finland beat a near-Russian Best on Best selection in the semifinals in 2019 with an underdog team. If it had been the Americans, 2-3 Hollwood movies would probably have been shot about it by now. Conclusion: If there is no other way, then live with these hockey conditions. Finns can be proud. And it will stick in the hockey world too. There's still so much to whine about. I'm not waiting for the NHL and Bettman anymore. Mr. Jalonen has created a system that allows him to defeat almost any NHL team. That's also a nice insight.

 

[NyQuil]

Well that's an overall "NHL-NA problem" in my eyes. How happy I was a year ago to see the new Finnish generation play together for the first time. But unfortunately things turned out differently. The typically special circumstances in the NHL, etc. To be honest, I don't give a damn now. Best on Best? Finland beat a near-Russian Best on Best selection in the semifinals in 2019 with an underdog team. If it had been the Americans, 2-3 Hollwood movies would probably have been shot about it by now. Conclusion: If there is no other way, then live with these hockey conditions. Finns can be proud. And it will stick in the hockey world too. There's still so much to whine about. I'm not waiting for the NHL and Bettman anymore. Mr. Jalonen has created a system that allows him to defeat almost any NHL team. That's also a nice insight.

Meh, it's less about the results and more about wanting to see the best players play in the colours of their national team.

You don't want to see what happens when Aho goes up against Matthews or McDavid on behalf of Suomi?

 

[Lambo]

Meh, it's less about the results and more about wanting to see the best players play in the colours of their national team.

You don't want to see what happens when Aho goes up against Matthews or McDavid on behalf of Suomi?

I already described it in the first sentences that I would have been very happy. But unfortunately it will never happen. Point!

 

[NyQuil]

I already described it in the first sentences that I would have been very happy. But unfortunately it will never happen. Point!

Well, you said you don't give a damn.

I still give a damn.

It was an extra punch to the groin this time around because it would have made COVID-19 and the Olympics more interesting.

 

[saskriders]

What do you think of this World Cup format:

-Every four years, 2 years from the Winter Olympics
-Olympics, and IIHF (possibly u-21 and u-18???) in that cycle count for points towards qualification
-Top 6 qualify directly
-7 plays 10 and 8 plays 9 for the last two spots
-Round Robin first round so everyone plays everyone
-Top 4 make the semi finals


Possibly try and have games in Europe and North America if logistics can allow it. Maybe alternate which continent the playoff round is in.

 

[NyQuil]

Possibly try and have games in Europe and North America if logistics can allow it. Maybe alternate which continent the playoff round is in.

Alternating the playoffs is what would give the World Cup the most credibility and yet it seems so unlikely that the NHL would agree to it:

1. Because the WCs are always in Europe.
2. Because they're greedy.

 

[saskriders]

Alternating the playoffs is what would give the World Cup the most credibility and yet it seems so unlikely that the NHL would agree to it:

1. Because the WCs are always in Europe.
2. Because they're greedy.

Another thing that could be good, but would probably never happen is every team is guaranteed either one or two home games that actually take place at home.

 

[jj cale]

What do you think of this World Cup format:

-Every four years, 2 years from the Winter Olympics
-Olympics, and IIHF (possibly u-21 and u-18???) in that cycle count for points towards qualification
-Top 6 qualify directly
-7 plays 10 and 8 plays 9 for the last two spots
-Round Robin first round so everyone plays everyone
-Top 4 make the semi finals


Possibly try and have games in Europe and North America if logistics can allow it. Maybe alternate which continent the playoff round is in.

I like this but I don't want to see any jumping oceans during a tournament, you're going to get a jet lag argument from the fans of any team affected by it, wouldn't matter if they flew in a month before the games. Alternate between Europe and N.A held tournament.

Also, I think we need to come to an agreement on refs as it's always a major bone of contention, I think it should be split in half with NHL refs and IIHF refs.....................and they need to get together before the tournament to decide what kind of a game they are going to call, which should be strictly according to the rules.Body checking is still pretty much a no go at the WHC for the most part, you get called for far too much clean stuff over there to the point where guys don't even engage in it for fear of going to the box all game, you so much as pass gas near a player at the WHC and the crowd starts whistling and the arm goes up, it's bullshit and not hockey, Clean Body checking is legal in hockey and is/should be part of the game, We can't have separate called games in the same tournament depending on who is calling it. Teams should be under no illusions, nor should the fans.

 

[saskriders]

I like this but I don't want to see any jumping oceans during a tournament, you're going to get a jet lag argument from the fans of any team affected by it, wouldn't matter if they flew in a month before the games. Alternate between Europe and N.A held tournament.

Also, I think we need to come to an agreement on refs as it's always a major bone of contention, I think it should be split in half with NHL refs and IIHF refs.....................and they need to get together before the tournament to decide what kind of a game they are going to call, which should be strictly according to the rules.Body checking is still pretty much a no go at the WHC for the most part, you get called for far too much clean stuff over there to the point where guys don't even engage in it for fear of going to the box all game, you so much as pass gas near a player at the WHC and the crowd starts whistling and the arm goes up, it's bullshit and not hockey, Clean Body checking is legal in hockey and is/should be part of the game, We can't have separate called games in the same tournament depending on who is calling it. Teams should be under no illusions, nor should the fans.

I think any ocean jumping should be once, with everyone doing it at the same time, and a few days between games.

 

[jj cale]

I think any ocean jumping should be once, with everyone doing it at the same time, and a few days between games.

I dunno, excuse for fans to bitch, especially if they lose, and those fans sure never need an excuse.

Not most of the ones here anyway.

 

[JETZZZ]

I think that World Cup qualifying (for 2028 and beyond, anyways) should just be as simple as selecting the 8 countries that make it to the quarter finals at the previous Olympics.
(This is assuming that the NHL wants an 8 team field...and assuming there actually will be a World Cup in 2028, 2032, and beyond....annnnnnd assuming that NHLers will allowed in future Olympics...)

 

[Albatros]

I see no discernible difference between an amateur European league becoming a professional one and amateur Canadian teams competing as professionals a few decades later.

This is just a lot of cheap platitudes considering how much footballers command in salaries and transfer fees.

Sure there are restrictions in certain leagues and venues but runaway spending takes place in most of the major European soccer leagues.

I see a fundamental disconnect between wishful thinking and reality in your example.

This magical world of the purity of sport doesn’t exist anymore.

Speaking for the NHLPA, if they didn’t care about international play, they wouldn’t make it as part of their negotiating space with the owners in collective bargaining.

The players care, and not because of money. The fans understand that.

There’s a reason why the 2016 World Cup failed even here in North America and it’s because it was rightly perceived as a commercial cash grab with no redeeming value as an international tournament.

The difference is among other things philosophical, in Europe it's much more of a necessary evil. Competition at a high level requires money and money unfortunately requires some compromises. Most teams and competitions could theoretically switch back to amateur any time. In North America the NHL is the by nature professional and commercial centerpiece of hockey, any other way the house of cards built around it would simply collapse. The cultural difference is so major that the whole business model of the NHL would be completely illegal in Europe.

In soccer you can see hard resistance to commercialization everywhere, in England in the Premier League fans lost the fight and ultimately teams were taken over by foreign oligarchs that simply built on global audiences instead of local ones. The exorbitant transfer fees don't come from the local pockets that used to finance the operations through ticket sales still a few decades ago. In Germany resistance has been far more successful, but of course this inevitably means that there is less money, just like in European hockey there is always going to be significantly less money than in the NHL. For German fans the red line is that clubs must be real social clubs operated by members. Investors and sponsors are tolerated as long as it's the fans that have more say. In terms of purity the commonly used name 50+1 rule is quite descriptive, ordinary club members need to have at least one more vote than investors. The part surrendered to commerce is seen as dirty and negative, like selling out a minority share of your soul.

In North American "Big 4" sports (with the marginal exception of the Green Bay Packers) the idea of concrete fan control or teams operating as real social clubs does not even compute. As very popular as business aspects of the sports are among fans, it's all about fan fiction and not about fans actually being involved in running the franchises. The desire is simply to have an owner that takes the team to success. That being the case it's also much less of a taboo to choose or change the team you follow, and conversely franchises may relocate when business so necessitates. In Europe if a team is not successful then it gets relegated to a lower level and you go with your local team. The national team is ideally the combination of those local teams through all levels. Players come from whichever clubs they may, it's not about the names on the back. In Canada hockey sometimes tends to be seen as inherently domestic by default, "Canada's game", which then makes international competition rather pointless if it doesn't serve any particular domestic narratives.

 

[Porvari]

The real bummer about the dearth of best-on-best is that European nations see less and less benefit from developing top-level talent. I mean emotionally, what's the point of a Rantanen or a Landeskog if they play 3AM games for a team you have zero attachment to, in a city you really couldn't care less about (sorry Denver, I'm sure you're a great town)?

I mean, I can enjoy individual Finnish success in the NHL, but if you're not a player or their relative (or a diehard fan of a single league), the real point of having a thing called Finland producing top Finnish players is to see them don that blue-and-white jersey and play that one famous game for bragging rights. Take that away, and what's left is just a bunch of overnight stats on a Teletext page.

 

[Urbanskog]

The real bummer about the dearth of best-on-best is that European nations see less and less benefit from developing top-level talent. I mean emotionally, what's the point of a Rantanen or a Landeskog if they play 3AM games for a team you have zero attachment to, in a city you really couldn't care less about (sorry Denver, I'm sure you're a great town)?

I mean, I can enjoy individual Finnish success in the NHL, but if you're not a player or their relative (or a diehard fan of a single league), the real point of having a thing called Finland producing top Finnish players is to see them don that blue-and-white jersey and play that one famous game for bragging rights. Take that away, and what's left is just a bunch of overnight stats on a Teletext page.

This is why I think the NHL is gravely shooting itself in the foot with its disregard of international tournaments. What incentive will governments have to sponsor hockey instead of other sports if the fruits of the development programs never really get to play for their home countries?

 

[edog37]

The Stanley Cup is a club trophy competition whose clubs have SOME of the best players on their team, it indicates the best club in the NHL. It is not a best on best competition regardless of how much you cry over it and that's the truth. Not every hockey fan gives a shit about the Stanley Cup held in North America. Stay salty.

The Stanley Cup champion would absolutely destroy your baseball card collection team. No question.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I really wish Bylsma wasn’t coaching the 2014 US team. What an oaf. He had them playing directionless hockey. They absolutely had the talent to beat Finland.

That was our last Olympic tournament and it was boring and unsatisfying to watch them play like that.

 

[edog37]

The NHL=Best on best, with a mischmasch of the best players randomly spread out in 32 teams.. The OP i clearly talking Best on best from nationality. What's the point of nations if we cant even have our best hockeyplayes playing for us in a two-week tournament, once a year?? What is the point of supporting the Ukraine as a nation , why not let everyone join under the Russian flag already.. the reasoning is somewhat the same, isnt it

Are you seriously equating the idea of nationhood with whether or not they have a hockey team associated with it? If so, that is the most absurd thing I've seen on these boards...& that is saying a lot...

 

[vergji]

I don't think that a McDavid injury changes anything for 99.9% of people. Canada didn't have Lemieux or others at the 1996 World Cup or 1998 Olympics, but I've never heard anyone suggest that those were not best on best tournaments. Russia missing is a whole team however, and in a sport with few actual contenders. If Russia isn't there then it simply cannot be the same. Fans would still probably consider it a big deal, but it isn't as impressive as winning with Russia's best actually in the tournament.

So lets say italy doesnt qualify to world cup like in 2018 and 2022 it isnt that big of a deal to win it those years since all the possible winner teams didnt qualify? You are just puking nonsense like every other american about ice hockey world championship.

 

[JackSlater]

So lets say italy doesnt qualify to world cup like in 2018 and 2022 it isnt that big of a deal to win it those years since all the possible winner teams didnt qualify? You are just puking nonsense like every other american about ice hockey world championship.

I'm not American and your very poor example has already been addressed. Italy failing to qualify is not the same as one of the very few contenders in hockey being outright banned.

 

[Boonk]

The Stanley Cup champion would absolutely destroy your baseball card collection team. No question.

No they wouldn't lmfao. Pittsburgh got absolutely shit on by the Rangers carried by Shesterkin, Tampa is currently losing to the Rangers and Shesterkin (a Rangers team with Ryan Reaves btw LOL)

Either would get absolutely shit on by a best possible Canada or US team lol. The only way Tampa could possibly beat either would be Vasilievski. Don't even front on me.

 

[Snauen]

Are you seriously equating the idea of nationhood with whether or not they have a hockey team associated with it? If so, that is the most absurd thing I've seen on these boards...& that is saying a lot...

That is "saying " squack. Its you failing to understand what I wrote

 

[edog37]

No they wouldn't lmfao. Pittsburgh got absolutely shit on by the Rangers carried by Shesterkin, Tampa is currently losing to the Rangers and Shesterkin (a Rangers team with Ryan Reaves btw LOL)

Either would get absolutely shit on by a best possible Canada or US team lol. The only way Tampa could possibly beat either would be Vasilievski. Don't even front on me.

Right a group of players who never played together & just because they have credentials is going to take on the best hockey team on the planet who just went through a grueling playoff & beat them. You are utterly ridiculous. Do you not see what it takes to win a Stanley Cup & why it is the most difficult trophy to win in all of sports? The Stanley Cup champ would annihilate any of these baseball card collection teams.

Regarding the Pens this year, I fail to see what it has to do with the discussion at hand, but the Pens lost because they blew leads & wouldn't adjust to situation & score. And, this year's team isn't the 2016/2017 team either.

 

[Boonk]

Right a group of players who never played together & just because they have credentials is going to take on the best hockey team on the planet who just went through a grueling playoff & beat them. You are utterly ridiculous. Do you not see what it takes to win a Stanley Cup & why it is the most difficult trophy to win in all of sports? The Stanley Cup champ would annihilate any of these baseball card collection teams.

Regarding the Pens this year, I fail to see what it has to do with the discussion at hand, but the Pens lost because they blew leads & wouldn't adjust to situation & score. And, this year's team isn't the 2016/2017 team either.

This same argument? Lol. Players constantly play together at international tournaments, from juniors to pro. Athletes literally do this in every sport, they play for their clubs and country. You make it sound like it's easy to win a championship aside from the Cup but it's not. It takes a complete effort to win ANY championship, for club or country.

Any best on best country's roster would shit on Tampa. Cry about it.