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The future of international hockey

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WarriorofTime said:
How people can say "international hockey (Europe) is very important" and then want to ban off the face of the earth one of only 3 countries outside of North America that is consistently producing NHL players... and the only one of the 3 in a very populous nation makes no sense. Sweden/Russia/Finland collectively account for 1/3 of non-North American players in the NHL and Russia has another 500-something in the KHL, some of which would at least be competitively challenging for NHL roster spots, they are a lock for the Quarterfinals and a threat for the Semifinals in any major international competition.

Without Russia, you lose one of the very few non-North American competitive hockey nations. At that point, I'd rather just see Summit style Series played between USA-Canada, Sweden-Finland, Czech Republic-Slovakia and Switzerland-Germany in place of another boring Bettman Cup of Hockey.
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There are also more important things in life than hockey. Also, it's not a European problem whether Russian players make the NHL anymore or not, obviously the NHL is entitled to be concerned.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Right, so international hockey is not that important if the general premise.
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This is an incredibly tedious argument that really ought not to be retread too much, but it is worth mentioning that Russia's exclusion in international hockey is much more a practical decision than a moral one by the IIHF.

Russia being patria non grata among most of its worldwide fanbase and amongst most top level countries was always going to put them in a difficult position - they have to consider whether countries like Finland and Sweden would even want to face them on the ice at the moment, and indeed whether there would be much appetite for broadcasters to pick up matches featuring Russia if they were allowed to participate.

I think we were always going to have to accept that the international hockey world was going to be fragmented following the invasion, and of the options available to them, the IIHF took the one that was least awkward, and if we're being honest with ourselves, did the best job of preserving the integrity of their competitions.
 
WarriorofTime said:
the proposals here and elsewhere are to kick them out for good, lots of "good riddance" etc. In which case, I assume people aren't "serious" about saving international hockey
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Russian participation is not vital to international hockey. We just had the Olympics with Team ROC and the World Championships without, made no significant difference.
 
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Albatros said:
Russian participation is not vital to international hockey. We just had the Olympics with Team ROC and the World Championships without, made no significant difference.
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If you want international hockey to be taken serious, then yes, by all means they are important, whether called the soviet union, russia, roc nation.. the form doesn't matter. The world championships are obviously not that big of a deal regardless, so sure they can skip that one
 
WarriorofTime said:
If you want international hockey to be taken serious, then yes, by all means they are important, whether called the soviet union, russia, roc nation.. the form doesn't matter. The world championships are obviously not that big of a deal regardless, so sure they can skip that one
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Taken serious where? In Europe it makes no difference. If the Canadians desire games against Russia they're free to arrange such also without the IIHF.
 
Albatros said:
Taken serious where? In Europe it makes no difference. If the Canadians desire games against Russia they're free to arrange such also without the IIHF.
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Not this Canadian. No desire to see any Canada- Russia games. And I don't believe any tournament without the Russians is all that diminished.
 
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jj cale said:
Well, you're right on target...........................they play in the NHL.

And that's who calls the shots, the NHL, not some guy in front of his t.v watching the worlds wishing he called the shots in some house in europe,

Time for people there to accept that, that isn't changing anytime soon.
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If I were you I would not be so sure. The NHL is heavily dependant on the status of the dollar. The world has been changing these days, the old world is a history. And the dollar is a core symbol of that old world.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Without Russia, "Europe" basically just means Finland and Sweden.
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Finland and Sweden previously played Euro Hockey Tour minor tournaments against Czechia and Russia, most recently Russia was replaced by Switzerland but there are also other good alternatives such as Slovakia and Germany. For example the Deutschland Cup could become a part of the EHT going forward. It's not really an issue.
 
Eye of Ra said:
The question is what nations should be in it and how many. It should be a 8 nations tournament.

Group A:

Canada
USA
Germany
Switzerland

Group B:

Finland
Sweden
Czechia
Denmark

Not including Russia, you know why.
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The players can just form ROC or something.

You can’t just overtly ban Russia from participating

VLK said:
Russia can start their own federation with their best buddies Belarus. Perhaps North-Korea and Eritrea can also be invited. Not sure if the latter has a hockey-team though.
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You can’t have a best on best without Russia in it, sorry!
 
Czechboy said:
I think we might be talking about 2 different things here. I'm talking about the NHL.. the big nasty corporation run by Gary Bettman. That corporation would absolutley love exposure in Asia as it is a big market. But I do see a difference between a Canadian hockey fan and the NHL. 2 very different things to me.

Euros loves internationala competition.
So do Canadians.
The NHL does not care much at all - my proof is no world cups and no NHLers at Olympics. Canadians were pissed about this, Connor McDavid was pissed... Gary Bettman slept like a baby that night knowing his NHL season was not in jeopardy.

Very true.. how much money did Gary Bettman and the NHL make off that one? Goes back to what the NHL wants and what fans want.. they're not the same thing. The NHL wants an All Star game and to sell overpriced Jerseys to kids.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying here but I really have very little proof in my life that the NHL gives a f*** about international hockey though. I do think Canucks love their international hockey as they're still talking about 72 and all those Canada Cup victories.
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I was replying jj cale, not you :) I don't exactly disagree with anything you've said. I'm not saying that the NHL cares about the IIHF, but if they could own the international tournament market, they would probably love that.
 
Elvs said:
I was replying jj cale, not you :) I don't exactly disagree with anything you've said. I'm not saying that the NHL cares about the IIHF, but if they could own the international tournament market, they would probably love that.
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I know but I was jumping in and out of the argument as I found it interesting and had some of my own views.

Maybe they would but I just think it is all small potatoes to a guy like Bettman. I doubt he could tell you the difference between the liiga and extraliga or SEL and DEL. I assume he thinks the NLA is a lacrosse league. And I seriously doubt he could tell you that Finland just won the World's or who won the Olympics this year or in 2018. He's the one that needs to get on board and I never see that happening.
 
vorky said:
If I were you I would not be so sure. The NHL is heavily dependant on the status of the dollar. The world has been changing these days, the old world is a history. And the dollar is a core symbol of that old world.
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I'm not an economist. However whatever happens in that realm negatively I doubt Europe would somehow escape unscathed and have their position improved.
 
Joka12 said:
The fact that russian media was reporting that the World cup in Finland this year was a disaster with huge economic losses and almost no spectators shows that it hurts for them. And that they use sports in their propaganda.
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To be fair, this year's tournament had the worst attendance per match since 2002 (not counting last year's tournament obviously) so there really were not very many spectators. Naturally this does not mean that it was an economic disaster as the ticket prices were so high.
 
WarriorofTime said:
lol they definitely will not. Europe is not that relevant. The IIHF knows it desperately needs Canada. That is the voice that holds by far the biggest sway in IIHF.
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If European teams don't show up, who is exactly in this tournament? European hockey coutnries absolutely matter.
 
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