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The future of international hockey

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I've been a plenty of times to both Greece and Italy and to Serbia once, and I can't say I've ever seen an NBA jersey, but then I've not exactly loitered in some deprived suburbs either. Plus NBA jerseys are borderline unrecognisable as it is. Basketball is very popular in Serbia for sure. NBA? Maybe as well.
 
Well if the poster is correct about basketball not really being popular in europe then what chance does hockey have?

Hence, why should the NHL be concerned about how european fans feel about International hockey? Which is the constant refrain here from a lot of european posters.

They have no reason to care because it is nothing but a niche sport in europe and always will be by the looks of it, the NHL has gathered this and acts accordingly, no room for growth that ends up benefiting their coffers, case closed.

We will get what we get, not much point always arguing about it.
 
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jj cale said:
Well if the poster is correct about basketball not really being popular in europe then what chance does hockey have?

Hence, why should the NHL be concerned about how european fans feel about International hockey? Which is the constant refrain here from a lot of european posters.

They have no reason to care because it is nothing but a niche sport in europe and always will be by the looks of it, the NHL has gathered this and acts accordingly, no room for growth that ends up benefiting their coffers, case closed.

We will get what we get, not much point always arguing about it.
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Actually there are way more NHL players from Europe than there are NBA ones. Without Europeans the NHL in its current form is not a viable product.
 
Albatros said:
Actually there are way more NHL players from Europe than there are NBA ones. Without Europeans the NHL in its current form is not a viable product.
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Well, you're right on target...........................they play in the NHL.

And that's who calls the shots, the NHL, not some guy in front of his t.v watching the worlds wishing he called the shots in some house in europe,

Time for people there to accept that, that isn't changing anytime soon.
 
jj cale said:
Well, you're right on target...........................they play in the NHL.

And that's who calls the shots, the NHL, not some guy in front of his t.v watching the worlds wishing he called the shots in some house in europe,

Time for people there to accept that, that isn't changing anytime soon.
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If European kids increasingly lose interest in hockey then the NHL also faces an existential threat going forward. It's in their Tocquevillean self-interest to ensure that doesn't happen.
 
Albatros said:
If European kids increasingly lose interest in hockey then the NHL also faces an existential threat going forward. It's in their Tocquevillean self-interest to ensure that doesn't happen.
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Hockey has been popular in europe in the places it has been popular in for decades now, before they had hardly any player in the NHL.

I don't see that changing anytime soon either, their domestic leagues are still more dear to their fans heart then the NHL, the only reason they have any interest in the NHL at all is because their countryman play in it.


Nothing will change, hockeys fine, it's not going anywhere.
 
Albatros said:
If European kids increasingly lose interest in hockey then the NHL also faces an existential threat going forward. It's in their Tocquevillean self-interest to ensure that doesn't happen.
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69 % of players in the NHL are North American. Swedes and Finns will still play in the NHL as their countries are too small to produce domestic leagues that can reasonably compete with the NHL for salaries. Russia is really the big landmass where hockey should be trying to grow but many are ready to cast them aside for geopolitical reasons entirely. The NHL has no reason to suck up to Sweden and Finland, really small countries, even if those countries had hockey-rabid cultures, there's not a ton of growth opportunity there. Combined they have a population comparable to Ontario alone. Germany is probably the EU country that they should concentrate their efforts, as there is a pretty good domestic league and decent enough hockey infrastructure in place. Europeans need to get over themselves and realize the hockey world isn't going to cater to them, when it isn't even on the radar as a sport in most of the continent.
 
Reading this thread is like watching an argument between a Catholic and a Muslim; same god different ideologies and it won't lead anywhere nice
 
WarriorofTime said:
The NHL has no reason to suck up to Sweden and Finland, really small countries, even if those countries had hockey-rabid cultures, there's not a ton of growth opportunity there.
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Hockey in these countries can shrink substantially, however. Without Finland and Sweden the Stanley Cup finalists alone would look very different.
 
Albatros said:
Hockey in these countries can shrink substantially, however. Without Finland and Sweden the Stanley Cup finalists alone would look very different.
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Why would it shrink? Those are the most popular winter sports in those countries, they are never going to catch Norway in all the winter olympic medals they get, why not hockey?
 
VLK said:
American cultural imperialism has been successful in things like music, movies and games.

However, there's one aspect where they have failed and that is sports.

I know that baseball is popular in some countries outside the USA but not anywhere in Europe.

The same with American football. Some people who have watched it have told it is a very tactical game. Much more complex than soccer.

However, 99.9% of Europeans consider it as foreign rubbish.
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You are dramatically underestimating the global reach of baseball and basketball, as well as the most widely-played Olympic sport -- volleyball.

If we made a map showing the second most popular sport after soccer/football, baseball and basketball would color in a large part of the globe. Bear in mind those games didn't even exist at a meaningful level 150 years ago. They are both much, much more popular globally than hockey among other things.

Your last comment strongly suggests you are speaking through a narrow lens of personal opinions, in "me and the people I know" fashion.
 
Albatros said:
Hockey in these countries can shrink substantially, however. Without Finland and Sweden the Stanley Cup finalists alone would look very different.
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But that's o.k you see, remember, we had Stanley cups long before any swede or Finland players were in them, the NHL has a long history here which i am sure you are aware.

We are in no danger here with or without those players, Europe is possibly in danger. I mean, the NHl could just contract and go back to the amount of teams it used to have if kids don't play hockey in great numbers anymore in Europe, but that won't affect our numbers at all. If what you say happens then EUROPE has the problem, what will their national teams look liie if hockey isn't popular in Sweden and finland anymore? (because it's still going to be popular and played a lot in Canada and the U.S) well............................you know what's going to happen and since Finland seems to go crazy with national pride through hockey, man, that is going to be one huge issue for them, perhaps they can pick up the slack in football or handlball, i don't know............best of luck.

I know Canadians aren't going to stop watching hockey just because European players aren't in it that's for sure, neither are U.S hockey fans. You really think that will happen?

Yeah, that is going to a difficult thing to swallow for them. It's going to go back to the old days of the big 3 but instead of Canada, Czechoslovakia and Russia it's going to be Canada, the U.S and probably still Russia.

They better hope the NHL survives as it is.
 
WarriorofTime said:
Why would it shrink? Those are the most popular winter sports in those countries, they are never going to catch Norway in all the winter olympic medals they get, why not hockey?
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Hockey is an expensive sport, the fewest end up playing it merely by chance. The Hedmans and Rantanens of tomorrow may very well be choosing soccer or some other hobby instead if hockey fails to persuade their generation.
 
Albatros said:
Hockey is an expensive sport, the fewest end up playing it merely by chance. The Hedmans and Rantanens of tomorrow may very well be choosing soccer or some other hobby instead if hockey fails to persuade their generation.
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But that is true anywhere, including Canada where youth participation is down compared to prior generations. Just on a population and domestic engagement basis, the NHL would be better served keeping kids in North America interested in hockey than worrying about Sweden and Finland.

And I highly doubt Sweden and Finland stop producing hockey entirely, the trends based on NHL player numbers suggest the opposite. As people have said, international sports are a matter of national pride and very important. Sweden and Finland will never be competitive in Football (particularly Finland), even if they get their "Haaland" they are just not large enough countries to compete with the bigger and more year-end climate friendly European powers on a consistent basis. Ice Hockey gives them a sport that they reasonably can be expected to compete and have a chance to win. That alone keeps it in the national consciousness and popular enough for more players to emerge. The populace is wealthy enough that some will always play.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
But that is true anywhere, including Canada where youth participation is down compared to prior generations. Just on a population and domestic engagement basis, the NHL would be better served keeping kids in North America interested in hockey than worrying about Sweden and Finland.
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Absolutely, that base is FAR more important then Sweden and Finland, it's not even close in importance.
 
jj cale said:
But that's o.k you see, remember, we had Stanley cups long before any swede or Finland players were in them, the NHL has a long history here which i am sure you are aware.
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Sure, but it won't be the current league with 32 teams, and likely not in places like Tampa and Denver. Of course there will be Canadian nostalgists that welcome a smaller, more Canadian league with some delight, but it would still have to compete against the pro leagues in other sports.
 
Albatros said:
Sure, but it won't be the current league with 32 teams, and likely not in places like Tampa and Denver. Of course there will be Canadian nostalgists that welcome a smaller, more Canadian league with some delight, but it would still have to compete against the pro leagues in other sports.
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Well, it's does that as we speak and has been for ages now, nothing new there.

But in your scenario where hockey loses huge ground as a popular sport in Europe, it's Europeans hockey fans that have the more serious problem. No more dancing in the streets after WHC wins for them, that's all gone, because the U.S and Canada will be kicking them hard going forward if hockey isn't popular there anymore, they won't have the talent to compete.

We will be fine here, don't kid yourself.


Hockey is not going to stop being a popular sport in Canada because it isn't in Sweden or Finland anymore.
 
jj cale said:
Well, it's does that as we speak and has been for ages now, nothing new there.

But in your scenario where hockey loses huge ground as a popular sport in Europe, it's Europeans hockey fans that have the more serious problem. No more dancing in the streets after WHC wins for them, that's all gone, because the U.S and Canada will be kicking them hard going forward if hockey isn't popular there anymore, they won't have the talent to compete.

We will be fine here, don't kid yourself.


Hockey is not going to stop being a popular sport in Canada because it isn't in Sweden or Finland anymore.
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Even in Canada other sports like soccer and basketball are increasingly popular among young people. To think that won't affect hockey going forward is very optimistic.
 
Albatros said:
Even in Canada other sports like soccer and basketball are increasingly popular among young people. To think that won't affect hockey going forward is very optimistic.
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The fact that Europe wouldn't be producing a great amount of players anymore is going to affect the games popularity here how?


Do you think fans here give a shit where players come from or the amount of teams the league has? the cost is affecting the games popularity, the emerging popularity of other games is affecting it but that isn't.

Are you saying lesser teams means a less vibrant league and that will affect kids affection for a game?

I don't see where you are going here, Canadians tend to like hockey and it's been pretty ingrained for a long time.

We are a true cold weather country, it's not going to disapear here as a sport because there are no more Saku Koivus.
 
Elvs said:
Water is far more important than kittens. But we don't have to choose.
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We don't have to choose, international hockey is what it is, there is plenty to go around even if we never see another senior best on best.

The world won't end.
 
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