The future of international hockey

[Elvs]

We don't have to choose, international hockey is what it is, there is plenty to go around even if we never see another senior best on best.

The world won't end.

Yes, the world won't end. However, I'm curious how international competition is hurting the interest for hockey in Canada, exactly?

 

[Czechboy]

I'll jump in since this is interesting to me.lol

1. I want Euro's to stay strong in hockey
2. I want Czechs to improve and get to over 50 players again

I am pro Euro on this

However

Over 70% is currently American and Canadian...

I don't think if all Swede's, Russians, Finns and leftovers left the NHL that it'd be reduced to a Canadian league with a dozen teams. I think they'd stay strong at 32 teams and continue marching on. I absolutely don't want that but I don't think the NHL is in any danger if they lose their EURO superstars. Eg. Sweden had a massive lull in talent in the 90's I believe and NHL was fine. Czechs went from 80 players to 30 players and NHL was fine. Slovaks went from 30 NHLers to 5 or 6 and NHL is fine.

NHL won't suffer IMO. LOTS of great players in AHL that could step up quickly and league would adjust accordingly.

Again, nothing I want and I'd stop watching but somehow I don't think Bettman and Co. would notice.lol

 

[Albatros]

I don't think if all Swede's, Russians, Finns and leftovers left the NHL that it'd be reduced to a Canadian league with a dozen teams. I think they'd stay strong at 32 teams and continue marching on.

We did see how well the all-North American expansion teams to regions like Colorado and California did back in the day. And that was still in a league of less than two dozen teams. Only with the influx of European talent, in other words enough players that someone in a non-traditional market might want to pay to watch, did these franchises become feasible.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

We did see how well the all-North American expansion teams to regions like Colorado and California did back in the day. And that was still in a league of less than two dozen teams. Only with the influx of European talent, in other words enough players that someone in a non-traditional market might want to pay to watch, did these franchises become feasible.

Who knows what would have happened to Detroit without the Russian Five and Europeans.

 

[WarriorofTime]

We did see how well the all-North American expansion teams to regions like Colorado and California did back in the day. And that was still in a league of less than two dozen teams. Only with the influx of European talent, in other words enough players that someone in a non-traditional market might want to pay to watch, did these franchises become feasible.

Revenue sharing, not having teams getting raided by the WHA... those played big roles as well.

 

[jj cale]

Yes, the world won't end. However, I'm curious how international competition is hurting the interest for hockey in Canada, exactly?

It's not, it's business as usual here.

I don't get what I am seeing here with all this all Canadian league stuff, the NHL will still be here and it will consist of Canadian and American teams.

It's fine European players are playing here now but we we don't require them to survive.

 

[Vakarte]

Why do people care if Americans play hockey? IMO they should stop trying to grow the sport in the United States and only focus on Canada.

Their country gives little care about the sport.


Like even when NHLers were not allowed to go to the Olympics this year, I didn't hear a single American player be disappointed in the decision.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Why do people care if Americans play hockey? IMO they should stop trying to grow the sport in the United States and only focus on Canada.

Their country gives little care about the sport.


Like even when NHLers were not allowed to go to the Olympics this year, I didn't hear a single American player be disappointed in the decision.

U.S. is about 10X the population of Canada, American franchises are now 25/32 NHL Franchises. More U.S. interest in hockey = more money for the NHL. Very simple economics. A Canadian-only NHL would be a pretty small league. Even the Original Six, 4/6 teams were based in U.S. cities.

 

[jj cale]

I'll jump in since this is interesting to me.lol

1. I want Euro's to stay strong in hockey
2. I want Czechs to improve and get to over 50 players again

I am pro Euro on this

However

View attachment 560969

Over 70% is currently American and Canadian...

I don't think if all Swede's, Russians, Finns and leftovers left the NHL that it'd be reduced to a Canadian league with a dozen teams. I think they'd stay strong at 32 teams and continue marching on. I absolutely don't want that but I don't think the NHL is in any danger if they lose their EURO superstars. Eg. Sweden had a massive lull in talent in the 90's I believe and NHL was fine. Czechs went from 80 players to 30 players and NHL was fine. Slovaks went from 30 NHLers to 5 or 6 and NHL is fine.

NHL won't suffer IMO. LOTS of great players in AHL that could step up quickly and league would adjust accordingly.

Again, nothing I want and I'd stop watching but somehow I don't think Bettman and Co. would notice.lol

They won't suffer much if at all, you could even keep it at 32 teams and have it stocked with more Canadian and American born players, fans cheer for the team and they are already established, it will be business as usual, the drop in quality won't be noticed very much as the players will be more then good enough and as I said, fans cheer for the team.

If the game drops in popularity in Europe it will affect Europe pretty much.

Who knows what would have happened to Detroit without the Russian Five and Europeans.

Hockey has been popular in detroit long before the Russian five, this take is laughable, it wasn't going anywhere just because they don't win cups in those years.

And in a league with less teams they have a better chance at winning cups in the future not less, fans care about rooting for the team and winning not where players are from.

Don't flatter yourself gentlemen, your players are not that important. Detroit is a good hockey town period.

 

[jj cale]

Why do people care if Americans play hockey? IMO they should stop trying to grow the sport in the United States and only focus on Canada.

Their country gives little care about the sport.


Like even when NHLers were not allowed to go to the Olympics this year, I didn't hear a single American player be disappointed in the decision.

They care because to keep the game strong here you need a lot of interest, if a lot of Americans are excelling in hockey it means the game is in decent shape in popularity. Kids don't usually play a sport unless they like it.

 

[Czechboy]

We did see how well the all-North American expansion teams to regions like Colorado and California did back in the day. And that was still in a league of less than two dozen teams. Only with the influx of European talent, in other words enough players that someone in a non-traditional market might want to pay to watch, did these franchises become feasible.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and have misunderstood.

California and Colorado were the 1970s

Euro influx was 20 years later in 90s

It is now 2022

I feel (and could be wrong) like you are simplifying a 50 year timeline into a few events.

Bettman bringing a different business model, revenue sharing and salary cap. NHL is a massive corporation now. I'm not saying I like that or it is good but it's a machine that is firing on all cylinders that profits every year.

A poster on here once pointed out that the NHL makes considerably more money then all the Euro leagues combined... I thought he was full of shit and googled it... Silky knew his stuff!

List of professional sports leagues by revenue - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Elvs]

It's not, it's business as usual here.

I don't get what I am seeing here with all this all Canadian league stuff, the NHL will still be here and it will consist of Canadian and American teams.

It's fine European players are playing here now but we we don't require them to survive.

Yes, business as usual. Hence why the NHL is exploring hosting another World Cup and why NHL games are being played on European soil every year. The NHL may not care where their players comes from, but they sure care about having as many fans as possible. Of course North America is going to be their main target group, but they know there's also a market in Europe.

 

[jj cale]

Yes, business as usual. Hence why the NHL is exploring hosting another World Cup and why NHL games are being played on European soil every year. The NHL may not care where their players comes from, but they sure care about having as many fans as possible. Of course North America is going to be their main target group, but they know there's also a market in Europe.

Where did I say they don't remotely care? they would like to make a little extra cash sure. They always care about any extra money they might be able to make, but if it's not there it won't change anything here, you did notice the NHL hasn't been at the last 2 olympics right? and that before the 2018 "world cup" there hadn't been one since 2004 yes?

Seems there is no rush or urgency due to the sky falling or anything, And there isn't.

If there was and international tournaments was their way to stave off disaster you can be sure they would be there lickety split without fail. As for the games in Europe well again.............sure they are looking into growing the game there, why wouldn't they? so what?

But it is indeed Business as usual here sir with or without international competitions and with or without a couple of games in Europe,lol.

I don't know what else to tell you. I know it's tough to hear that Europe isn't as important as you would like to think it is but the fact is............they're not.

 

[Czechboy]

Yes, business as usual. Hence why the NHL is exploring hosting another World Cup and why NHL games are being played on European soil every year. The NHL may not care where their players comes from, but they sure care about having as many fans as possible. Of course North America is going to be their main target group, but they know there's also a market in Europe.

They are exploring hosting a world cup to make a profit. They also skipped last 2 Olympics.

The NHL would play in Jamaica if it would make them money. They are a corporation and run accordingly. I doubt Bettman even likes the game.

 

[jj cale]

They are exploring hosting a world cup to make a profit. They also skipped last 2 Olympics.

The NHL would play in Jamaica if it would make them money. They are a corporation and run accordingly. I doubt Bettman even likes the game.

He has always struck me as the type of guy who would need 4 stiff martinis to get through 3 periods.

He's a businessman.

 

[Czechboy]

He has always struck me as the type of guy who would need 4 stiff martinis to get through 3 periods.

He's a businessman.

He strikes me as someone I would dislike immensely.

However, he sure made the NHL profitable and the owners probably want to buy him a martini while everyone else thinks he's a dick.lol

FTR.. I could be totally wrong and he's a huge hockey fan and great guy but colour me skeptical.

 

[jj cale]

He strikes me as someone I would dislike immensely.

However, he sure made the NHL profitable and the owners probably want to buy him a martini while everyone else thinks he's a dick.lol

FTR.. I could be totally wrong and he's a huge hockey fan and great guy but colour me skeptical.

Your skepticism is shared my friend.

He just has " lifelong business lawyer" written all over him.

 

[Elvs]

Where did I say they don't remotely care? they would like to make a little extra cash sure. They always care about any extra money they might be able to make, but if it's not there it won't change anything here, you did notice the NHL hasn't been at the last 2 olympics right? and that before the 2018 "world cup" there hadn't been one since 2004 yes?

Seems there is no rush or urgency due to the sky falling or anything, And there isn't.

If there was and international tournaments was their way to stave off disaster you can be sure they would be there lickety split without fail. As for the games in Europe well again.............sure they are looking into growing the game there, why wouldn't they? so what?

But it is indeed Business as usual here sir with or without international competitions and with or without a couple of games in Europe,lol.

I don't know what else to tell you. I know it's tough to hear that Europe isn't as important as you would like to think it is but the fact is............they're not.

I must have missed the part where either of the last two Olympics were played in Europe.

I'm not saying NHL'ers will have a sure future in the Olympics. But I'm saying that international hockey matters, even from a business perspective. If the NHL can replace the Olympics with the World Cup every fourth year, and if it's profitable, they are very likely to do so.

And again, I'm well aware that North America is the NHL's highest prioritized market, as it should be, for obvious reasons. But it's funny when someone from Canada points out how insignificant Europe is, when Germany alone has more than twice of Canada's population. By your own logic, perhaps the NHL should be more concerned about growing the game in Germany, Great Britain and France than adressing any problems Canada might have?

But then again, we don't have to choose. Ice hockey is big enough for both continents.

 

[jj cale]

I must have missed the part where either of the last two Olympics were played in Europe.

I'm not saying NHL'ers will have a sure future in the Olympics. But I'm saying that international hockey matters, even from a business perspective. If the NHL can replace the Olympics with the World Cup every fourth year, and if it's profitable, they are very likely to do so.

And again, I'm well aware that North America is the NHL's highest prioritized market, as it should be, for obvious reasons. But it's funny when someone from Canada points out how insignificant Europe is, when Germany alone has more than twice of Canada's population. By your own logic, perhaps the NHL should be more concerned about growing the game in Germany, Great Britain and France than adressing any problems Canada might have?

But then again, we don't have to choose. Ice hockey is big enough for both continents.

I've been told by so many European posters that it doesn't matter where the olympics are.........everybody watches because of the spectacle.

Are we changing the goalposts now? so, you mean only best on best olympics or world cups in Europe influences the fans there? is this what is being said?

It's so hard to keep track.

What do you mean by my logic we should care about growing the game in germany,etc?
More money? sure.....................why don't more of you watch the product that is available already maybe they will think it's worth putting more effort into.


What does any of this have to do on whether the game will be o.k without Europe? It was fine before,it's fine now and it will be fine after............Europe is not required for the game here, you should be worried about your game not ours, we're fine with or without you.

"your logic".............jesus, the main market for the NHL is here, always has been.

 

[Elvs]

I've been told by so many European posters that it doesn't matter where the olympics are.........everybody watches because of the spectacle.

Are we changing the goalposts now? so, you mean only best on best olympics or world cups in Europe influences the fans there? is this what is being said?

It's so hard to keep track.

What do you mean by my logic we should care about growing the game in germany,etc?
More money? sure.....................why don't more of you watch the product that is available already maybe they will think it's worth putting more effort into.


What does any of this have to do on whether the game will be o.k without Europe? It was fine before,it's fine now and it will be fine after............Europe is not required for the game here, you should be worried about your game not ours, we're fine with or without you.

"your logic".............jesus, the main market for the NHL is here, always has been.

I'm not saying people didn't watch. You are implying the NHL doesn't care (much) about Europe, and proceeded to remind us how the NHL didn't send it's players in 2022 or 2018. But neither of those tournaments took place in Europe. If they were, the NHL would have been more positive.

And I was originally responding to your post that the NHL needs to care about Canada producing players, not Sweden or Finland. I say we don't have to choose, as the options are not at conflict. Those are the goal posts.

You are making it sound like only Europeans care about international competition, when the 2010 Olympic final got better tv ratings than any other broadcast in Canada ever. That suggests international competiton isn't only positive for Sweden and Finland, but for Canada as well.

 

[jj cale]

I'm not saying people didn't watch. You are implying the NHL doesn't care (much) about Europe, and proceeded to remind us how the NHL didn't send it's players in 2022 or 2018. But neither of those tournaments took place in Europe. If they were, the NHL would have been more positive.

And I was originally responding to your post that the NHL needs to care about Canada producing players, not Sweden or Finland. I say we don't have to choose, as the options are not at conflict. Those are the goal posts.

You are making it sound like only Europeans care about international competition, when the 2010 Olympic final got better tv ratings than any other broadcast in Canada ever. That suggests international competiton isn't only positive for Sweden and Finland, but for Canada as well.

Of course it's positive for Canada, but the NHL hasn't deemed it overly positive for their brand yet.

 

[Czechboy]

But neither of those tournaments took place in Europe.

I think we might be talking about 2 different things here. I'm talking about the NHL.. the big nasty corporation run by Gary Bettman. That corporation would absolutley love exposure in Asia as it is a big market. But I do see a difference between a Canadian hockey fan and the NHL. 2 very different things to me.

only Europeans care about international competition,

Euros loves internationala competition.
So do Canadians.
The NHL does not care much at all - my proof is no world cups and no NHLers at Olympics. Canadians were pissed about this, Connor McDavid was pissed... Gary Bettman slept like a baby that night knowing his NHL season was not in jeopardy.

any other broadcast in Canada ever

Very true.. how much money did Gary Bettman and the NHL make off that one? Goes back to what the NHL wants and what fans want.. they're not the same thing. The NHL wants an All Star game and to sell overpriced Jerseys to kids.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying here but I really have very little proof in my life that the NHL gives a f*** about international hockey though. I do think Canucks love their international hockey as they're still talking about 72 and all those Canada Cup victories.

 

[Albatros]

Please correct me if I'm wrong and have misunderstood.

California and Colorado were the 1970s

Euro influx was 20 years later in 90s

It is now 2022

I feel (and could be wrong) like you are simplifying a 50 year timeline into a few events.

Bettman bringing a different business model, revenue sharing and salary cap. NHL is a massive corporation now. I'm not saying I like that or it is good but it's a machine that is firing on all cylinders that profits every year.

A poster on here once pointed out that the NHL makes considerably more money then all the Euro leagues combined... I thought he was full of shit and googled it... Silky knew his stuff!

List of professional sports leagues by revenue - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Revenue sharing only makes sense when less profitable teams bring additional value to the ones making the money. In other words help them make more. Having European franchise players like Barkov is absolutely crucial to the equation, replacing them with Canadians from the AHL would make the whole house of cards collapse.

 

[ClarkBolzano]

Russia should have been banned already in 2014. By this time we probably would have already forgotten that they even exist.

Moreover, Russia being banned in 2014 it should have meant that they wouldn't have hosted the most prestigious sports event in the world, namely the FIFA World Cup 2018.

Very interesting. Total nonsense. First of All make an indipendent anti Doping agency then We can talk.

 

[WarriorofTime]

How people can say "international hockey (Europe) is very important" and then want to ban off the face of the earth one of only 3 countries outside of North America that is consistently producing NHL players... and the only one of the 3 in a very populous nation makes no sense. Sweden/Russia/Finland collectively account for 1/3 of non-North American players in the NHL and Russia has another 500-something in the KHL, some of which would at least be competitively challenging for NHL roster spots, they are a lock for the Quarterfinals and a threat for the Semifinals in any major international competition.

Without Russia, you lose one of the very few non-North American competitive hockey nations. At that point, I'd rather just see Summit style Series played between USA-Canada, Sweden-Finland, Czech Republic-Slovakia and Switzerland-Germany in place of another boring Bettman Cup of Hockey.