The Fall of Pierre

[Alex1234]

25th is not bottom feeder if the difference between 25th and 19th is just 2 points.

25th is Playoffs

 

[PlayOn]

...because of the 2020 draft

Let those players establish themselves before freaking out.

I think this point kind of gets lost in the frustrations of losing for so long, which I understand. Stützle and Sanderson (along with Brady imo) are probably the most elite pieces we have, and they are just getting started.

There’s some holes on defense and some questions surrounding future goaltending that Dorion or whoever is in charge next summer will have to solve for, but I continue to think this team is headed in the right direction, perhaps more slowly than we’d all like.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Cana look at that RD and bottom 6 and think "you know what, he deserves another shot."

His lack of ability to get Marino/RD will be his ultimate downfall.

 

[Loach]

We were 25th in the league when I wrote this
I said we might win the cup in 2017 after the 6th games vs Pittsburgh also if you want to go back and say I was wrong
Can't remember in 2007 though so Ill let you do the searching

Is the debate know about what is considered shit? Are we a really shitty team or just a shitty smelling team? Get the Shit-o-meter. It will show us that we aren't shitty at all.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

We're 2 point from 4th place in the division. Despite all the injures.

That's not a bottom feeder.

4th place in your division means nothing…. It’s not a division playoff spot, only the top three in a division gets you into the playoffs.

The best Ottawa can hope for is a WC spot.


WC playoff spots are determined within the conference, and the Senators and Canadians( tied in the standings) are looking up at six teams, with more points than them in the conference…. Looking for the two WC spots… and only two teams below them in the standing with fewer points….. that is practically the text book definition of “Bottom Feeder”.

 

[Micklebot]

Unsuccessful is still unsuccessful.

Never said it wasn't, but if you fail at something then start over with somebody else making decisions, it's two seperate attempts.

 

[Tuna99]

Is the debate know about what is considered shit? Are we a really shitty team or just a shitty smelling team? Get the Shit-o-meter. It will show us that we aren't shitty at all.

Nice to beat Boston but gave up 51 shots.

 

[coladin]

I edited the post to 6-7 years so no more confusion! Dorion started with Zibanejad, traded him for an older guy, then traded for Duchene and boom rebuild.

I don't care about the reason and excuses, the reality is I have NEVER seen a team going into a rebuild with having the luxury of trading assets like Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Pageau, etc in their PRIME. It is basically never seen before

And your vision of the game is extremely superficial judging by your Pageau argument. If you think his value was built on his 20 goals season, then maybe that's why we see hockey so differently



Oh dear... the problem you and a few others have to blindly defend a GM (who hasn't been able to build a good team in 6 years despite starting with a good prospect pool and bunch of very valuable assets) is the short sighted view.

Yes Melnyk was "cheap" but what you are not seeing is we still spent a LOT of money on below average to barely NHL level players... Do you need names? Dorion DECIDED himself to spend that money on Murray, Gudbranson, Stepan, Dadonov, White, Tierney, Zaitsev, Coburn, Josh Brown, etc...

All this time thinking others "can't see the forest thru the trees" when maybe you were literally stuck against a tree trunk all the way?



OK, be satisfied with BELOW mediocrity and use the "rebuilding" excuse for a decade if you want. I have other standards

If you think "the only real criticism of Dorion is the Stone situation", it's pretty clear you've been stuck against a tree trunk. In the meantime, I have been calling in advance everything that Dorion did or did not do that would blow up in our faces. If you leave your biases out at the door, it's actually stuff that is not that hard to predict.

By the way, I was not comparing with Buffalo. If you want to know what competent management is, just look at Gorton + Hughes. They basically got more for trading Lehkonen + Chariot + Toffoli + Kulak and taking on Monahan than our whole firesale minus the Karlsson trade (which is saving our BUTTS big time). People say Dorion was lucky there with the Sharks tanking that much and Norris becoming more than expected.

They started their rebuild 1 year ago, yet they are ahead of us in the standings after 33 games... this is EMBARASSING

What is embarrassing is Montreal needs a better pick and don’t have anything substantial coming up. Their metrics and analytics suggest they are over achieving. Pretty myopic to think that they are better than Ottawa just because of their points on December 28.

NJ started a year before us. They are the real barometer , not Montreal

 

[Big Muddy]

We're 2 point from 4th place in the division. Despite all the injures.

That's not a bottom feeder.

Well, from a playoff perspective (wild card seed), we'll have to see if we can leap frog 5 teams to get to that last wild card slot. Hopefully we will. At least we got past Montreal at least as it stands right now.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Never said it wasn't, but if you fail at something then start over with somebody else making decisions, it's two seperate attempts.

Correct, but still Buffalo is still worse because of the length, regardless how many kicks at the can.

Nice to beat Boston but gave up 51 shots.

17 shotss in last 5 minutes.

 

[Alex1234]

Correct, but still Buffalo is still worse because of the length, regardless how many kicks at the can.


17 shotss in last 5 minutes.

Shots in the last 5 minutes of a period dont count.

What is embarrassing is Montreal needs a better pick and don’t have anything substantial coming up. Their metrics and analytics suggest they are over achieving. Pretty myopic to think that they are better than Ottawa just because of their points on December 28.

NJ started a year before us. They are the real barometer , not Montreal

If we are 4th in the NHL december 28th 2023 Ill give the kudos to PDorion thats 4 sure

 

[Xspyrit]

...because of the 2020 draft

Let those players establish themselves before freaking out.

Looks like you understood nothing about the words you read. I'm not freaking out at all, in the past I have been calling the Sens 2020 draft one of the best hauls in NHL history by a single team.

What is embarrassing is Montreal needs a better pick and don’t have anything substantial coming up. Their metrics and analytics suggest they are over achieving. Pretty myopic to think that they are better than Ottawa just because of their points on December 28.

NJ started a year before us. They are the real barometer , not Montreal

I never said that I don't think we will finish above them in the standings... they have 8 regulation wins in 34 games... I know their metrics are pretty bad

But we're comparing a team that has been rebuilding for 5 years and a team that has been rebuilding for not even 1 year yet

Have you looked at their management and coaching staff vs ours? Let's not even look at ownership and market strength

Have you looked at their prospect pool vs ours? Our pool was million years better just 2 years ago

I know we had more significant graduations recently but they had some too. The thing is they have been selling their players much better (outside of Karlsson/Pageau*) and they have been drafting much better the last 2 drafts. Yes they just had the 1st OA pick but they only had the 31st OA pick in 2021 after making the SC finals...

The thing is we shouldn't have this conversation with 40% of the season completed


* I would add Dzingel here but all the assets gained (Duclair, a 2nd for Murray and the other 2nd for Stepan) have been wasted so it's better to just forget it

 

[Ice-Tray]

Pretty sure it’s winter now….

 

[dumbdick]

Gotta admit, Pierre's 3 big acquisitions are aĺl looking great.

Something is wrong with the team but I put it on the coaching.

 

[aragorn]

Ottawa is now 1 pt behind Florida & Buffalo & 2 pts behind Detroit, they could very easily get ahead of all three teams in the next week or so. They have to play better defensively & cut down on the shots against & start scoring more goals 5 on 5.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

He's 10,000% gone once we get new owners.

Pierre did well signing Brady, Norris and Stutzle but we haven't won forever can't blame everything on EM GM needs to take some responsibility.

My hope is that #11 is our next GM and is surrounded by a veteran front office with people that have won cups before!

 

[Ice-Tray]

He's 10,000% gone once we get new owners.

Pierre did well signing Brady, Norris and Stutzle but we haven't won forever can't blame everything on EM GM needs to take some responsibility.

My hope is that #11 is our next GM and is surrounded by a veteran front office with people that have won cups before!

So you want the one guy with ZERO management experience as GM, boulstered by a group of highly qualified individuals who do have management experience.

Sounds like a great recipe for workplace synergy.

 

[ksens]

So you want the one guy with ZERO management experience as GM, boulstered by a group of highly qualified individuals who do have management experience.

Sounds like a great recipe for workplace synergy.

Better than our current synergy of one buffoon who got his job through nepotism, bolstered by incompetent morons around him.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

I heard the leadership board was on their way to can Dorion until Boucher scored that second goal tonight.

Dorion better hopes Boucher keeps producing.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I heard the leadership board was on their way to can Dorion until Boucher scored that second goal tonight.

Dorion better hopes Boucher keeps producing.

We had a game tonight? Could have sworn we didnt play till Thursday, so I guess i missed it

Nvm, Im an idiot, forgot the WJC are happening.

 

[JD1]

Better than our current synergy of one buffoon who got his job through nepotism, bolstered by incompetent morons around him.

Nepotism is by and large the way the world works and it is definitely how the NHL works. The NHL is a very closed world that requires advanced knowledge of something very very specific.

In Dorion's case, I believe he got his first NHL job in 1994. Definitely nepotism getting hired as a scout based off his father's career. His father also died in 1994. As a guy that didn't play pro hockey and had his nepotism connection die almost 30 years ago, it's probably fair to say that Dorion owes the progression of his career to nepotism far less than most in the industry.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Ottawa is now 1 pt behind Florida & Buffalo & 2 pts behind Detroit, they could very easily get ahead of all three teams in the next week or so. They have to play better defensively & cut down on the shots against & start scoring more goals 5 on 5.

there are a number of teams, who also play games and accumulate points, that Ottawa must catch and pass…. But today, they’re 10 points behind the team that is in possession of the final WC spot in the conference.

Ottawa is playing at a .485 Pts% pace, while the team in the last WC spot is playing at a .597 Pts% pace….. so Ottawa has a huge hill to climb, just to get to the same Pts% pace, and then another to play at a higher Pts% pace to gain ground on said team, that BTW is still playing games and adding more points to their current total.

At this point of the season, as the runway to the playoffs is getting shorter, Ottawa upping their game to play at a higher that .597 pts% is an extremely long shot at best.

Also, those 5 or 6 teams that Ottawa must catch and pass, are also pushing themselves to catch the teams currently holding on to the final WC spot…. It’s not like they’re not paying attention, and getting out of the way for the Senators to advance in the standing, they’re just as intent on that WC spot as the Senators are.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Better than our current synergy of one buffoon who got his job through nepotism, bolstered by incompetent morons around him.

Not really at all. The organization looks to be running super smoothly, with a budget increase in both player and front office areas, since EM passed.

PD was mentored as an AGM by Murray and spent years working his way up the scouting ranks before that. Neither Mann nor Bowness are ‘morons’.

It’s posts like this that make it hard to take much of the PD hate seriously, it reads like a bunch of haters and is dissmissable off the cuff. (Falls in the category of fat, balding, eats pizza, smug smirk, smacks his lips, awkward with media, blah blah blah….) pointless drivel.

Other folks mention legitimate job performance issues, which is both legitimate and debatable, which is nice for discussion and doesn’t sound neither emotional or bitter.

Hiring an ex player with no coaching or management experience to run the entire hockey side of the organization is Mickey Mouse. I can’t believe people are suggesting it as a viable choice by a smart new management group.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Not really at all. The organization looks to be running super smoothly, with a budget increase in both player and front office areas, since EM passed.

PD was mentored as an AGM by Murray and spent years working his way up the scouting ranks before that. Neither Mann nor Bowness are ‘morons’.

It’s posts like this that make it hard to take much of the PD hate seriously, it reads like a bunch of haters and is dissmissable off the cuff. (Falls in the category of fat, balding, eats pizza, smug smirk, smacks his lips, awkward with media, blah blah blah….) pointless drivel.

Other folks mention legitimate job performance issues, which is both legitimate and debatable, which is nice for discussion and doesn’t sound neither emotional or bitter.

Hiring an ex player with no coaching or management experience to run the entire hockey side of the organization is Mickey Mouse. I can’t believe people are suggesting it as a viable choice by a smart new management group.

hiring Alfie is a lot less crazy than wanting to retain Dorion. Not sure how any Senators fan could stomach that honestly.

you must be a masochist.

 

[Golden_Jet]

hiring Alfie is a lot less crazy than wanting to retain Dorion. Not sure how any Senators fan could stomach that honestly.

you must be a masochist.

Hiring Alfie is easy part, he hinted he might not be interested in management side, sounded more like development / coaching on Wally and Meth