You’re right, the Duchene and Zibanejad deals were one year apart. They were also
both awful trades. I don’t know how you can conclude that “at this stage the only real criticism of Dorion is the Stone situation” when he traded away a guy like Zib who went on to become a legit #1 Center for a declining asset. If you take out two of every GM’s three worst trades they’ll all look a lot better.
Agreed on Karlsson. There was definitely luck involved but can’t complain about the outcome.
Hoffman’s value was definitely tainted. I have difficulty believing that situation couldn’t have been handled better. Apparently the problems between the ladies started in November 2017. You would think the team could have done due diligence and figured out the source of this beef between two stars and addressed it immediately before the deadline. If random player wives on other teams were aware it’s ridiculous our management wasn’t.
Even if they couldn’t have handled that situation differently to avoid the tainted value, the Sharks got better value for a tainted Hoffman than the Sens did just a few hours after acquiring him while the cash strapped Sens added useless Boedker salary.
Agree on Pageau. I thought PD played his hand pretty much perfectly on that one.
Not taking on bad contracts was a major hindrance to PD, he had one hand tied behind his back for sure. Imagine if they could have added Marleau+1st to the Brown/Zaitsev deal and had Jarvis, Guhle or Schneider on the roster right now? Missed opportunities outside PD’s control. Even the Zaitsev anchor would look better now had that happened.
Citing lack of depth is not nonsense when :
1) they had Paul, moved him for a worse player and then proceeded to give that player a similar contract to the one they wouldn’t give Paul.
2) had C. Brown and traded him for a 2nd. This was imprudent as was noted at the time.
The team would look very different with one or both of them still around.
I agree a comparison to Buffalo isn’t really fair when they’ve been rebuilding for much longer and have won the lottery several times. The same does not apply to Montreal though.
The biggest indictment of Dorion in my view has to be his inability to identify and acquire top 4 defensemen. This team has needed to add at least one (if not more) top 4 guy every year since 2017-2018 and has not been able to ice a D core with 4 legit top 4 guys at once in that time. It is certainly difficult to do under the salary constraints he was working with, but he’s also had a very long runway to make it happen and has spent the money he did have on the wrong guys.
Sure, but some posters have been excusing the start because of the Norris and Zub injuries. One or two injuries shouldn’t be enough to derail a team.
So, cycling back here with more time on my hands
Zibanejad was my favourite player. There were commitment issues with him though. Tons of potential and I think the trade kicked his ass into gear. No doubt we lost that trade. But I find it's hard to judge situations that I think Melnyk had a financial hand in. The other part of that trade is Brassard declined quickly.
On the Karlsson trade no doubt that was a homerun. But look at the expectations that existed on this board versus the reality of offers. I think it's fair to say that expectations on returns were much higher than league reality. GMs weren't lining up to handover their best.
On the Hoffman trade they wanted to move him out of conference. I think it was a learning experience for Dorion when he was immediately traded back to our division.
Paul. You said they gave Joseph a contract that they wouldn't give Paul. I disagree with that because there's scant evidence that Paul would sign here for what Joseph signed for. Look at the Paul deal? I wouldn't want that contract on the books. I also think we're getting less value from Joseph because he's played the year with an inadequate 3C.
Brown. The Brown trade was a bit of a paradox for me, highlighting the split personalities on the board. I think there's a number of examples of Dorion doing right by a player. Chaplik is one. We let him walk for his personal benefit when we could have kept him stuck in Belleville and called up to contribute from time to time. I think Brown is a similar case. He earned a top 6 contract but I don't think the team intended to give him one. So what do you do? They traded his rights. Definitely we'd be better if we kept him but he wasn't going to sign for 3rd line money here. He'd be helping this year if he wasn't injured but what message would it send if he was moved at the deadline? What uproar would it have caused here if he wasn't moved at the deadline and allowed to walk for nothing? I think moving him was done to give him a chance at his top 6 contract and I think players by and large respect GMs that do right by players.
How many teams have 4 legit top 4 D men? It's hard to acquire them. Occasionally a team acquires a guy that blossoms in to that but there's not a lot of moving legit top 4 guys going on and it costs a fortune when it happens. Look at Chychrun.
That brings me to Stone. That wasn't handled well and I suspect Stone was also not fully forthcoming in the process either. I tie the top 4 D thing into Brannstrom not blossoming as quickly as hoped too. I think all the way along they expected Brannstrom to blossom faster than he has, thereby saving the assets they would have given up to acquire a top 4 D.
At the end of the day, I think a lot of what's transpired over the past 5 years has been financially motivated. And it's hard to evaluate a trade library when one side has less cards to play
Something Dorion has achieved is getting a core to sign at reasonable numbers for long term. Wind the clock back a few years and there was an expectation here that none of these players would sign. That they'd all bridge their way out of town asap. Now we're seeing comments along the lines of "ya but those players had no choice"
Norris was imo the worst single injury we could have had. He was the one guy that was an experienced top 6 C. Losing him impacted the entire season. Brassard can play spot duty here and there. Giroux can take faceoffs but can't skate well enough anymore to play C. It left us without any C depth. Hopefully he is back and healthy and we post a 50+ point 2nd half.
