The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[Bluelines]

Funny how some here like to point to other players shortcomings to justify Leafs players shortcomings. It is like me telling the kids getting a D in your test is not good but they point to another kid who also got a D and said it is okay. Do you ask your boss to decrease your salary bc someone else is working as much as you but being paid less?
Mack is miles ahead of any players on the Leafs. McDavid is miles ahead anyone in the League barring Kuch. The perfect line in Boston till last season is still the best and most balance line in Hockey. Yet none of them won anything team wise the last 5 years, does that mean they suck like the Leafs players?
Fact is, the Leafs is not a Vas away from being a contender as long as AM and Marner choke in the playoffs.
They need to figure it out how to succeed in playoffs, Willie seemed to figured it out by looking at last playoffs but let’s see if he can do it again before calling him Mr. Playoffs.
I am not going crap on being in playoffs 5 yrs… bc to me, the first two years were house money. It had been three years of not advancing playoffs/ins, they(Dubas, Keefe, AM, Marner, JT)better figure is out or I doubt they ever will playing together.

I think you may have misinterpreted that, people bring up other players to outline that star players underachieving is not uniquely Leafy... it does not excuse lack of performance from either player.

 

[mclaren55]

Why because I answered your silly questions with silly questions? Cool Bruh ... . Buh bye...

You're initial statement was silly. You don't think progressing into deeper rounds in the playoffs is a sign of "progression", which is a complete fallacy. Either way, you loose credibility when you say things like "Cool Bruh... . Buh bye...".

Your maturity is showing, grow up.

 

[mclaren55]

I think you may have misinterpreted that, people bring up other players to outline star players underachieving is not uniquely Leafy... it does not excuse lack of performance from either player.

Yea, look at the accountability that MacKinnon took vs. our players and tell me they are equitable.

 

[Bluelines]

You're initial statement was silly. You don't think progressing into deeper rounds in the playoffs is a sign of "progression", which is a complete fallacy. Either way, you loose credibility when you say things like "Cool Bruh... . Buh bye...".

Your maturity is showing, grow up.

Leafs lose vs an elite Tampa in in 7 games in the first round, next year they Beat a shitty Montreal in 7 games in the first round? Is it progression, well you progressed to round two but has your team progressed in terms of being a better team? Maybe , maybe not. Who give a rat's ass in 20 years that the Leafs made to round 2? Are there progression ribbons?

When YOU make a stupid comment like, What's the point of playing in the playoffs if you are not guaranteed a Cup win?, you deserve stupid answers...

 

[Bluelines]

Yea, look at the accountability that MacKinnon took vs. our players and tell me they are equitable.

He said something and that makes it all right? Cool... line up here for participation ribbons and canned athlete responses to the left ....

 

[kb]

Yea, look at the accountability that MacKinnon took vs. our players and tell me they are equitable.

What accountability?

 

[mclaren55]

Leafs lose vs an elite Tampa in in 7 games in the first round, next year they Beat a shitty Montreal in 7 games in the first round? Is it progression, well you progressed to round two but has your team progressed in terms of being a better team? Maybe , maybe not. Who give a rat's ass in 20 years that the Leafs made to round 2? Are there progression ribbons?

When YOU make a stupid comment like, What's the point of playing in the playoffs if you are not guaranteed a Cup win?, you deserve stupid answers...

Huh?

 

[mclaren55]

He said something and that makes it all right? Cool... line up here for participation ribbons and canned athlete responses to the left ....

He seems very driven, and his post media comments reflect that, opposed to our players. I never stated that made it alright. You are once again misconstruing what I’ve stated.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think you may have misinterpreted that, people bring up other players to outline that star players underachieving is not uniquely Leafy... it does not excuse lack of performance from either player.

Maybe but I think a few here are using it as an excuse.
Personally, our top players didn’t perform, plain and simple. They need to be better. Doesn’t matter if Mack didn’t win past the 2nd round or McDavid and his Oilers got swept or Barkov and his Panthers didn’t beat TB….
There will always be ONE team that win the Cup/year, but that should not excuse Leafs for underperforming.
Rocket Winner getting 1 goal in 7 games or 4th in League scoring only got 4 pts and no goals in 7 games just won’t cut it.
Now by no means am I suggesting if only the Leafs made it to the 2nd round or 3rd round, all is good, bc the goal is the Win the Cup and not win a round or two. As of now, TB is THE team to beat and I just don’t see how the Leafs can beat them with the way AM and Marner been playing in the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ill take a 1st or 2nd or 3rd round win every day and twice on sundays. Winning rounds and going deeper signifies progress doesn't it?

I'll take winning one PO round over pretty much anything that is done during the regular season. Expected this and that and the other thing, it's all BS, playoffs are where we separate the men from the boys.

surely you agree that the Avalanche, perennial 2nd round losers, are not actually an elite team, right?

I know you love subjective terms since it allows you to spin things any way you want. Elite is a subjective term so your question is meaningless and I don't care about the Avalanche either way. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it LOL.

I will take some playoff success over none at all. Going deeper into the playoffs would be fun and exciting and dramatic. I personally dont watch hockey and the leafs just for the cup and the cup only. Im a fan of the sport and of the blue and white. If the leafs lost while battling and leaving it all out on the ice I could live with that, but they don't and that leaves the sour taste in my mouth, not not winning the cup. Cup is just the cherry on top.

Beautifully put IMO. 100% effort is something I can always be proud of, win or lose. Some people seem prefer having "talent" even if they lose every time, go figure.

 

[Bluelines]

Maybe but I think a few here are using it as an excuse.
Personally, our top players didn’t perform, plain and simple. They need to be better. Doesn’t matter if Mack didn’t win past the 2nd round or McDavid and his Oilers got swept or Barkov and his Panthers didn’t beat TB….
There will always be ONE team that win the Cup/year, but that should not excuse Leafs for underperforming.
Rocket Winner getting 1 goal in 7 games or 4th in League scoring only got 4 pts and no goals in 7 games just won’t cut it.
Now by no means am I suggesting if only the Leafs made it to the 2nd round or 3rd round, all is good, bc the goal is the Win the Cup and not win a round or two. As of now, TB is THE team to beat and I just don’t see how the Leafs can beat them with the way AM and Marner been playing in the playoffs.

Good post I agree.

 

[Bluelines]

He seems very driven, and his post media comments reflect that, opposed to our players. I never stated that made it alright. You are once again misconstruing what I’ve stated.

Ever hear of the saying words are cheap?

 

[Bluelines]

Huh?

Define progress if your team is not as strong as the year before but make it further than the year before, has your team really progressed or just lucked out to face a shitty team?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Mackinnon seems pretty full of himself as well by reading the actual transcript. Zadorov seemed pretty sick of his act.

I don't really see the disparity between the two groups you described honestly. One is a jerk (Mackinnon), the other is more introverted (Marner).

All those deep cup runs for Colorado lately make it worth putting up with though. Oh wait...

Fans of a team that can't get out of the first round with ZERO playoff series wins belittling teams that can't get out of the 2nd round with THREE playoff series wins..

Jeez... only in leafland.

 

[mclaren55]

Define progress if your team is not as strong as the year before but make it further than the year before, has your team really progressed or just lucked out to face a shitty team?

That's where I'm confused, when did the leafs finish better than their previous year?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The guys who sign in Arizona or CLB typically are not flush with other options and if they sign there the vast majority are running out of there as soon as they can ... O-Dog is a fun guy, not someone I would call dedicated to his craft, I have no doubt he wouldn't care if he won a championship and would rather cash a cheque. He see things through his perspective. When you see grown men crying because they lost a playoff round or a championship series, I think it matters to some.

I don't doubt some of the bigger stars care about winning. It's their legacy that they are protecting if they win. Nobody wants to be a great player who never won it. Ovie would have had that asterisk beside his name had he not finally won it all.

 

[Bluelines]

That's where I'm confused, when did the leafs finish better than their previous year?

You are missing the forest through the trees. You are defining progress as winning a round regardless of who you beat.

I'm defining progress as in the team is actually a better team than the year before. Quantifiably we were a better team in the regular season this year than we were the year before. Underlying stats show that the Leafs were a better team in the playoffs this year vs the play in round but faced a hot goalie.

 

[Gabriel426]

You are missing the forest through the trees. You are defining progress as winning a round regardless of who you beat.

I'm defining progress as in the team is actually a better team than the year before. Quantifiably we were a better team in the regular season this year than we were the year before. Underlying stats show that the Leafs were a better team in the playoffs this year vs the play in round but faced a hot goalie.

Is the team really better though?
Is leading 3-1 in the series a step forward from not leading in the Series from the playins?
Running into a hot goalie is not an excuse. In the same token maybe the Leafs winning the North Division was due to Campbell having that 11-0 start or something and not the team playing well.
The only stat that matters is the W and the 16Ws in playoffs.
Just like in Baseball, teams will use the shift to try to take hits away from hitters but that won’t stop hitters from getting hits.

 

[Bluelines]

Is the team really better though?
Is leading 3-1 in the series a step forward from not leading in the Series from the playins?
Running into a hot goalie is not an excuse. In the same token maybe the Leafs winning the North Division was due to Campbell having that 11-0 start or something and not the team playing well.
The only stat that matters is the W and the 16Ws in playoffs.
Just like in Baseball, teams will use the shift to try to take hits away from hitters but that won’t stop hitters from getting hits.

Statistically they were a better team. In terms what they accomplished? No, they accomplished the same thing last year that they did the previous 53 years. your right in the end if you are the 2nd best looser or the 15th best looser, you're still a looser. Winning your last game in the playoffs is all the matters.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Avs did trade away Duchense and ROR

Neither player was remotely close to the player Marner is when they were traded, and Duchene asked for a trade. Both players were also traded as they were approaching UFA and the team was non-competitive, which is not the same as a team trading a younger and far superior player, who has 4 years left on his deal, while competitive.

 

[Apex Predator]

The two biggest debates are Mitch Marner and Timothy Liljegren.

 

[Gabriel426]

Statistically they were a better team. In terms what they accomplished? No, they accomplished the same thing last year that they did the previous 53 years. your right in the end if you are the 2nd best looser or the 15th best looser, you're still a looser. Winning your last game in the playoffs is all the matters.

Like I mentioned earlier, I just don’t see the Leafs beating TB with the way AM and MM are playing in the playoffs.
The thing that I am afraid the most is, they are used to being bounced after the first round. I think the body language after Game 5 said it all, a lot of them were okay they lost that game after coming back to tie the game snd force OT. It was pretty much the same after Game 4 in the playins when they came back and won in OT. It seemed like in their mind, as long as they showed they tried, everything is okay. Which is wrong.

 

[Bluelines]

Like I mentioned earlier, I just don’t see the Leafs beating TB with the way AM and MM are playing in the playoffs.
The thing that I am afraid the most is, they are used to being bounced after the first round. I think the body language after Game 5 said it all, a lot of them were okay they lost that game after coming back to tie the game snd force OT. It was pretty much the same after Game 4 in the playins when they came back and won in OT. It seemed like in their mind, as long as they showed they tried, everything is okay. Which is wrong.

Leafs actually stack up pretty good to TB ... Toronto Maple Leafs vs Tampa Bay Lightning

 

[Curt]

Can’t wait til the leafs miss the playoffs this season and this selfish clown gets shipped out of town. He’s a selfish loser. He always will be

 

[Curt]

You are missing the forest through the trees. You are defining progress as winning a round regardless of who you beat.

I'm defining progress as in the team is actually a better team than the year before. Quantifiably we were a better team in the regular season this year than we were the year before. Underlying stats show that the Leafs were a better team in the playoffs this year vs the play in round but faced a hot goalie.

How are people still making these excuses for this group of losers. It’s been 5 years!! These clowns have been paid, they ain’t trying any harder