The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[usernamezrhardtodo]

When a player is struggling conventional coaches make adjustments. Either getting a different line matchup or dropping 1 player down a line or two to get him going then either sticking with new combos or bringing the original player back. I’m not abdicating him from avoiding physical play but to me the coaching was piss poor on our end

Keefe put them in a position to not succeed, that much is obvious by now. He played them too much during the season and then cranked it up for the playoffs. You could see the last couple of games that AM and MM were running on fumes. It was the first fricking round and he killed them. He is more stubborn than Babs was. It's like he will do the opposite of what Babcock did just because it's the opposite. I doubt they do much until Keefe is turfed because if your answer to everything is more AM and MM...you have a problem that cannot be fixed.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Keefe put them in a position to not succeed, that much is obvious by now. He played them too much during the season and then cranked it up for the playoffs. You could see the last couple of games that AM and MM were running on fumes. It was the first fricking round and he killed them. He is more stubborn than Babs was. It's like he will do the opposite of what Babcock did just because it's the opposite. I doubt they do much until Keefe is turfed because if your answer to everything is more AM and MM...you have a problem that cannot be fixed.

In the CBJ series as well. He puts players on the ice to start a shift that are still visibly tired. He’s a terrible coach

 

[Walshy7]

If your line is matched up against the best defensive forward in the league + shouting against the hottest goalie in the league, you think we should just keep rolling out our shooters against that line? Isn't it a coaches job to lay out a plan that makes it easier to win? I guess McDavid and Driasaitl have not shown up, eh?

so what your saying is marner and Matthews arent top players? top players play against top pairs etc and shouldn't need sheltering, Nylander line was going so you want to stop that line going against lesser match ups in the hopes of getting marner and matthews going against lesser competition? seems weird why are we paying them all this money then

 

[Bluelines]

so what your saying is marner and Matthews arent top players? top players play against top pairs etc and shouldn't need sheltering, Nylander line was going so you want to stop that line going against lesser match ups in the hopes of getting marner and matthews going against lesser competition? seems weird why are we paying them all this money then

So top players never need an advantage... gotchya...? What happened to McDavid's production when Kadri's line was matched against McDavid's line? By your definition, if McDavid needs to have his coach deploy him away from Kadri, McDavid is not that strong of a player, because elite talent never needs sheltering right? Does that make any sense to you? Makes no sense to me.

Nylander's line was going because the Matthews line got Montreal's checking line, which just happened to have the best checking center with Danault... that is news to you? So you gave a prime example of what happens when a good player, Nylander... had lesser opponents, he dominates. Is line matching against elite players, a new concept to you? Is the role of a checking line a new concept for you? Perhaps your knowledge of hockey strategy is not that strong? I don't want to talk down to you, perhaps I should talk with fans who are better equipped to understand basic hockey strategy?

 

[Bluelines]

In the CBJ series as well. He puts players on the ice to start a shift that are still visibly tired. He’s a terrible coach

He's a good coach that is inexperienced, makes stupid decisions due to his inexperience. I was one of the first people here to say Keefe has significant flaws. Dubas needs to do better with surrounding Keefe with a support system with experience.

 

[Arzak]

You are missing the forest through the trees. You are defining progress as winning a round regardless of who you beat.

I'm defining progress as in the team is actually a better team than the year before. Quantifiably we were a better team in the regular season this year than we were the year before. Underlying stats show that the Leafs were a better team in the playoffs this year vs the play in round but faced a hot goalie.

What a joke, first you question someone for using winning the Playoff round as an objective measurement of progress because they ignored the competition and yet your definition of progress is our regular-season record vs CA teams only.

What kind of hypocrisy is this? Winning playoff round is meaningless unless its TB, but we progressed because we played bottom of the league the whole year...funny you can put it down and dont see it.


Now that we got the first of your joke out of the way, what underlying stats are you talking about? We have terrible underlying stats, the shot distribution showing how bad it really was so I really have to wonder. Please share these stats showing playoff improvement.


A good old argument about Leafs getting golied ... What is the difference between Leafs not scoring and HOT GOLIE ?

Every time, it's the hot goalie on this board... we are nowhere in the crease, shooting from outside the circles and yet it's a hot goalie once again.

 

[Bluelines]

Keefe put them in a position to not succeed, that much is obvious by now. He played them too much during the season and then cranked it up for the playoffs. You could see the last couple of games that AM and MM were running on fumes. It was the first fricking round and he killed them. He is more stubborn than Babs was. It's like he will do the opposite of what Babcock did just because it's the opposite. I doubt they do much until Keefe is turfed because if your answer to everything is more AM and MM...you have a problem that cannot be fixed.

Using your star forward for PK duties, then sending him out to generate offence right after the PK is over is counter intuitive to me. You just rode this guy for 45 to 90 seconds in a high stress situation, now you are going to expect him to have the lungs to play 45 seconds of pressuring the other team?

 

[Bluelines]

What a joke, first you question someone for using winning the Playoff round as an objective measurement of progress because they ignored the competition and yet your definition of progress is our regular-season record vs CA teams only.

What kind of hypocrisy is this? Winning playoff round is meaningless unless its TB, but we progressed because we played bottom of the league the whole year...funny you can put it down and dont see it.


Now that we got the first of your joke out of the way, what underlying stats are you talking about? We have terrible underlying stats, the shot distribution showing how bad it really was so I really have to wonder. Please share these stats showing playoff improvement.


A good old argument about Leafs getting golied ... What is the difference between Leafs not scoring and HOT GOLIE ?

Every time, it's the hot goalie on this board... we are nowhere in the crease, shooting from outside the circles and yet it's a hot goalie once again.

When something like this comes out of me I flush it.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yup and they play similar puck possession styles. They match up well vs each other.

And when intensity picks up in playoffs, AM and Marner disappeared. TB is in a tier on its own for now. Hoping that will change.

 

[Gabriel426]

What body language would you have liked to see?

The fact that it is not okay to lose the game. Look at the Raptors when they lost Game 5 in the Finals.

 

[Bluelines]

And when intensity picks up in playoffs, AM and Marner disappeared. TB is in a tier on its own for now. Hoping that will change.

TB is better at everything, coaching, goalie, defence, forwards, experience. I would be surprised to see Toronto win a series vs TB but I think it would be closer than some people think.

 

[Bluelines]

The fact that it is not okay to lose the game. Look at the Raptors when they lost Game 5 in the Finals.

I don't understand, what does that look like?

 

[Gabriel426]

TB is better at everything, coaching, goalie, defence, forwards, experience. I would be surprised to see Toronto win a series vs TB but I think it would be closer than some people think.

I don’t think it will be a sweep even if Vas gets hot.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don't understand, what does that look like?

The Raps didn’t feel lucky they made it close at the end, rather they looked disappointed and pissed bc they didn’t finish the team off. Leafs players looked like it is okay to lose this one bc they will have another chance in Game 6. I think it was Spezza who said the last game in the Series is the hardest to win after Game 4. I don’t believe Kawhi and anyone said anything similar to that after Game 4 of the Finals.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The Raps didn’t feel lucky they made it close at the end, rather they looked disappointed and pissed bc they didn’t finish the team off. Leafs players looked like it is okay to lose this one bc they will have another chance in Game 6. I think it was Spezza who said the last game in the Series is the hardest to win after Game 4. I don’t believe Kawhi and anyone said anything similar to that after Game 4 of the Finals.

Even Keefe was putting that out there

 

[Bluelines]

The Raps didn’t feel lucky they made it close at the end, rather they looked disappointed and pissed bc they didn’t finish the team off. Leafs players looked like it is okay to lose this one bc they will have another chance in Game 6. I think it was Spezza who said the last game in the Series is the hardest to win after Game 4. I don’t believe Kawhi and anyone said anything similar to that after Game 4 of the Finals.

I think maybe your inflecting a perception bias. "The Game 4 (series clinching game) is the hardest game to win " thing, is a sports line that has been said by thousands of athletes over many may many team sports. You don't have to have a facial expression that you are devastated or throw an angry tantrum to show you care. Take me for example, I've never mastered that "act like you've been there before" personna, I'm up, I'm down when I'm competing. Where my wife you would never know she is devastated, she is cold stone emotionless when good or bad shit goes down, even keel.

 

[Arzak]

When something like this comes out of me I flush it.

I'm defining progress as in the team is actually a better team than the year before. Quantifiably we were a better team in the regular season this year than we were the year before. Underlying stats show that the Leafs were a better team in the playoffs this year vs the play in round but faced a hot goalie.

Try it again, this floater is still here. You keep contradicting yourself.

It must be hard to provide non-existing underlying stats . Your definition of progress is indeed regular season CA prince.. If it's all so quantifiable why are you so shy? Provide some actual numbers or at least name the stat/stats you rely on so heavily. It's not shot distribution/high danger scoring chances for sure, hence your delusion shot volume means hot goalie...

 

[BrannigansLaw]

You are missing the forest through the trees. You are defining progress as winning a round regardless of who you beat.

I'm defining progress as in the team is actually a better team than the year before. Quantifiably we were a better team in the regular season this year than we were the year before. Underlying stats show that the Leafs were a better team in the playoffs this year vs the play in round but faced a hot goalie.

Leafs played like garbage in Games 5-7 but quantifiably you're right!

 

[Gabriel426]

I think maybe your inflecting a perception bias. "The Game 4 (series clinching game) is the hardest game to win " thing, is a sports line that has been said by thousands of athletes over many may many team sports. You don't have to have a facial expression that you are devastated or throw an angry tantrum to show you care. Take me for example, I've never mastered that "act like you've been there before" personna, I'm up, I'm down when I'm competing. Where my wife you would never know she is devastated, she is cold stone emotionless when good or bad shit goes down, even keel.

That could be true. But results speak louder than anything. Raptors won the Finals. Leafs came back from a 3-0 down and won in OT in Game 4 of the playins and came out completely flat in the Winner takes all Game 5. Leafs came out flat in Series clincher Game 5, forced OT and lost on a mistake, than the only player who showed up in Game 6 was Campbell until they were down 2-0 and forced OT. Then came out flat again in Game 7 and didn't force OT. Four Series Clinching games in a row where they came out flat.

 

[Curt]

What a joke, first you question someone for using winning the Playoff round as an objective measurement of progress because they ignored the competition and yet your definition of progress is our regular-season record vs CA teams only.

What kind of hypocrisy is this? Winning playoff round is meaningless unless its TB, but we progressed because we played bottom of the league the whole year...funny you can put it down and dont see it.


Now that we got the first of your joke out of the way, what underlying stats are you talking about? We have terrible underlying stats, the shot distribution showing how bad it really was so I really have to wonder. Please share these stats showing playoff improvement.


A good old argument about Leafs getting golied ... What is the difference between Leafs not scoring and HOT GOLIE ?

Every time, it's the hot goalie on this board... we are nowhere in the crease, shooting from outside the circles and yet it's a hot goalie once again.

Blue lines is the joke of the site. No one takes what he says seriously

 

[Curt]

That could be true. But results speak louder than anything. Raptors won the Finals. Leafs came back from a 3-0 down and won in OT in Game 4 of the playins and came out completely flat in the Winner takes all Game 5. Leafs came out flat in Series clincher Game 5, forced OT and lost on a mistake, than the only player who showed up in Game 6 was Campbell until they were down 2-0 and forced OT. Then came out flat again in Game 7 and didn't force OT. Four Series Clinching games in a row where they came out flat.

how many more times do people have to see this for them not to think it’s a “fluke”

Marner will never show up in the playoffs. He doesn’t care enough to go to the areas that matter. It’s really that simple

the sooner the loser is gone the better

 

[Bluelines]

I'm defining progress as in the team is actually a better team than the year before. Quantifiably we were a better team in the regular season this year than we were the year before. Underlying stats show that the Leafs were a better team in the playoffs this year vs the play in round but faced a hot goalie.

Try it again, this floater is still here. You keep contradicting yourself.

It must be hard to provide non-existing underlying stats . Your definition of progress is indeed regular season CA prince.. If it's all so quantifiable why are you so shy? Provide some actual numbers or at least name the stat/stats you rely on so heavily. It's not shot distribution/high danger scoring chances for sure, hence your delusion shot volume means hot goalie...

You one of those guys eh? You don't know any facts but "know" the other guy is wrong

You seem to be a simple guy, so I will keep it simple for you.

2020 Playoffs averaged 2 goals scored per game / 2.4 goals against
2021 Playoffs averaged 2.6 goals scored per game/ 2.0 goals against.

Quantifiably better in the playoffs vs the play in's.

 

[Racer88]

Using your star forward for PK duties, then sending him out to generate offence right after the PK is over is counter intuitive to me. You just rode this guy for 45 to 90 seconds in a high stress situation, now you are going to expect him to have the lungs to play 45 seconds of pressuring the other team?

For 11 million per year I expect him to even take a few shifts in the net…..lol

 

[Bluelines]

Blue lines is the joke of the site. No one takes what he says seriously

HAHAHHAA.. OMFG... how would you ever know this as fact...? Pitiful, simply pitiful.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Even Keefe was putting that out there

I think that is the difference between well run teams and the Leafs. The well run teams DEMAND that they play hard and win game 5...not make excuses that they have another 2 cracks at it. Complacency is rampant for a team that really shouldn't be complacent at all IMO.