The Core Has To Go

[WillNy29]

You realize he might not resign right?

The way you lot talk you would think that choke job who's going to demand massive money is definitely going to want to stay here

Jesus we may not even make the playoffs you say, holy hell how are we ever going to exist without the magnificent success we've all become accustomed to year after year

lol a lot of people saying this and then when you trade him for pennies on the dollar and he goes and wins a cup somewhere else while we miss the playoffs for another decade you'll all be the first to lament that we need a superstar player. At least the fans are consistent

 

[hockeyes]

Good post! A rebuild made enough sense then because it hadn't been tried and other methods weren't exactly successful. Shanahan and/or Dubas would be quite foolish to even approach ownership with such a suggestion right now IMO. I feel as though it might be time to move a core piece (likely Nylander) since the Tavares-Nylander combo in particular isn't a great option to run with for the amount invested in it. Changes at the GM and coaching level probably shouldn't be ruled out entirely either in terms of assembling and utilizing a supporting cast of change. Starting anew and missing the playoffs definitely shouldn't be the aim here.

Lol, Tavares-anything isn't worth the amount invested, pretty strange to hitch Nylander to Tavares just because a rookie coach did it.

 

[Kiwi]

lol a lot of people saying this and then when you trade him for pennies on the dollar and he goes and wins a cup somewhere else while we miss the playoffs for another decade you'll all be the first to lament that we need a superstar player. At least the fans are consistent

He can't even help get us out of the second round but I'm supposed to give a **** if he goes somewhere else and succeeds?

I'd rather lose for a decade and collect the young talent required to chase a cup than get punted in the 1st round, or miracle of miracles the 2nd round every year but know we aren't winning **** with this core of gutless wonderkids

 

[Buds17]

Lol, Tavares-anything isn't worth the amount invested, pretty strange to hitch Nylander to Tavares just because a rookie coach did it.

Tavares likely isn't going anywhere due to that NMC. The combo is rather weak defensively and it isn't helpful to the team if all combinations of Matthews/Tavares and Marner/Nylander can't be utilized effectively when needed due to the cap commitment involved with the Core Four.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Tkachuk nailed it.

Leafs are loaded with talent.

That doesn't make them a playoffs winning team.

One of the double digits has to go so they can use that $11mm on 2 playoff performers.

Tavares has a NMC.

The decision is determining which one of Matthews or marner has the strength of character to help lead a team to victory?

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, can someone show me the talent everyone keeps saying we have? Because all playoffs all I saw was the “talent” guys mishandling pucks, missing shots, and failing to make simple passes.

It wasn’t grit or character that was causing us problems, it was the fact that Rielly was the only D that could move the puck out of the zone on his first attempt more than 50% of the time, and that our expensive forwards couldn’t hit the net or make a pass. The amount of times Marner over handled the puck, lost the zone after a long cycle with exhausted defenders, and turned it into a breakaway against us was absurd. There’s no amount of grit or character that fixes that, only hand surgery or a lobotomy can.

Outside of the core 4, Rielly, and Knies we have NO talent. Who’s the next most talented player in the organization? Bunting or Kerfoot? These aren’t the days when we had skill and speed down the lineup, more than half of the lineup is slow and gritty now. Honestly Rielly and Nylander are the only fast players we have left, everyone else plays slow.

How everyone latched on to this one narrative in 2016 and absolutely refuses to let it go under any circumstances is insane. If I could press a button and have Matthews never back check or block a shot again but he gets his 60 goal hands/shot back, I’d mash it until it broke.

 

[WillNy29]

He can't even help get us out of the second round but I'm supposed to give a **** if he goes somewhere else and succeeds?

I'd rather lose for a decade and collect the young talent required to chase a cup than get punted in the 1st round, or miracle of miracles the 2nd round every year but know we aren't winning **** with this core of gutless wonderkids

so pretty much you would redo what we did and hope it would somehow be different the second time. Makes sense

 

[yubbers]

You realize he might not resign right?

The way you lot talk you would think that choke job who's going to demand massive money is definitely going to want to stay here
If he walks for nothing next season everybody in management should never work in the industry again

Jesus we may not even make the playoffs you say, holy hell how are we ever going to exist without the magnificent success we've all become accustomed to year after year

IMO he's not. But he'll play chicken with Dubas. Why wouldn't you?

 

[hockeyes]

Tavares likely isn't going anywhere due to that NMC. The combo is rather weak defensively and it isn't helpful to the team if all combinations of Matthews/Tavares and Marner/Nylander can't be utilized effectively when needed due to the cap commitment involved with the Core Four.

None of that is Nylanders fault. Play Tavares 4th line duty or press box if he can't keep up. Trade Nylander if it makes sense, but do it based on his actual merrits, not what an anchor does.

 

[Buds17]

None of that is Nylanders fault. Play Tavares 4th line duty or press box if he can't keep up. Trade Nylander if it makes sense, but do it based on his actual merrits, not what an anchor does.

He'd be moved based on lacking the NMC that Tavares, Matthews and Marner have or will have, and also the need to change the team in a way that's meaningful enough.

Putting a big salary on the 4th line or in the press box just isn't going to accomplish all that much in a cap league.

I'd quite honestly prefer a coaching change over the moving out of a core player. I'm actually not sure which is the more likely move of the two to occur, if either?

 

[seventieslord]

I'm fine with taking a step back and missing the playoffs for a couple of seasons.

If we did a full rebuild it wouldn't be a typical rebuild as we should have a big head start with the pieces we get back from trading the core.

What do we have to lose by trying to start over? This team clearly does not work and there's no reason to think it ever will.

You're 100% right here.

 

[hockeyes]

He'd be moved based on lacking the NMC that Tavares, Matthews and Marner have or will have, and also the need to change the team in a way that's meaningful enough.

Putting a big salary on the 4th line or in the press box just isn't going to accomplish all that much in a cap league.

I'd quite honestly prefer a coaching change over the moving out of a core player. I'm actually not sure which is the more likely move of the two to occur, if either?

NMC or not, he has shown up when it matters. I'd shame my target trade bait into waiving their clause. These guys all have big egos and if you start benching or scratching them, they will agree to trades I am sure. Worst case, just put out a few hit pieces and the fans will boo them out of town.

 

[mikeyz]

He can't even help get us out of the second round but I'm supposed to give a **** if he goes somewhere else and succeeds?

I'd rather lose for a decade and collect the young talent required to chase a cup than get punted in the 1st round, or miracle of miracles the 2nd round every year but know we aren't winning **** with this core of gutless wonderkids

Exactly!!!!

 

[mikeyz]

I'm just surprised how eager so many seem to be for teardown. I'm not excited about it, just sad.

It's not surprising at all if you have been watching the playoffs for the last 7 years.

 

[mikerooooose]

Wings fan. I would take Nylander in a second.

Leafs should have traded Marner long ago. Not a playoff player.

 

[AvroArrow]

Anyone else see that post of Marner golfing like 12 hours after being eliminated, guy had his tee time booked. Needs to f***ing go. Team just got eliminated in humiliating fashion, largely because you were a no show and you're playing golf the next morning. Horrible mindset, if you want regular season entertainment and ticket sales he's your guy. If you want to compete in the playoffs, no chance.

 

[Trapper]

Tkachuk nailed it.

Leafs are loaded with talent.

That doesn't make them a playoffs winning team.

One of the double digits has to go so they can use that $11mm on 2 playoff performers.

Tavares has a NMC.

The decision is determining which one of Matthews or marner has the strength of character to help lead a team to victory?

If you have to choose you keep Matthews over Marner. The center and goal scorer.

 

[MCR74]

Anyone else see that post of Marner golfing like 12 hours after being eliminated, guy had his tee time booked. Needs to f***ing go. Team just got eliminated in humiliating fashion, largely because you were a no show and you're playing golf the next morning. Horrible mindset, if you want regular season entertainment and ticket sales he's your guy. If you want to compete in the playoffs, no chance.

Sounds about right. Didn't he post a picture of him packing up for the cottage after last year's loss?

 

[ACC1224]

Anyone else see that post of Marner golfing like 12 hours after being eliminated, guy had his tee time booked. Needs to f***ing go. Team just got eliminated in humiliating fashion, largely because you were a no show and you're playing golf the next morning. Horrible mindset, if you want regular season entertainment and ticket sales he's your guy. If you want to compete in the playoffs, no chance.

What would be an appropriate way to spend the next day? How did all the other players around the league spend the next day after being eliminated?

 

[baton elevated]

lol a lot of people saying this and then when you trade him for pennies on the dollar and he goes and wins a cup somewhere else while we miss the playoffs for another decade you'll all be the first to lament that we need a superstar player. At least the fans are consistent

Why would it be pennies on a dollar? I believe there would be big interest with his name recognition and nationality. If he doesn't want to re-sign you have no other option.

 

[Legion34]

lol a lot of people saying this and then when you trade him for pennies on the dollar and he goes and wins a cup somewhere else while we miss the playoffs for another decade you'll all be the first to lament that we need a superstar player. At least the fans are consistent

IF he doesn’t want to sign here. He has to be traded. Can you think of a trade where we get a top C?

 

[BraveCanadian]

If you have to choose you keep Matthews over Marner. The center and goal scorer.

Normally I’d agree but the injury history and likelihood of a decent content renewal change that equation for me.

 

[hamzarocks]

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, can someone show me the talent everyone keeps saying we have? Because all playoffs all I saw was the “talent” guys mishandling pucks, missing shots, and failing to make simple passes.

It wasn’t grit or character that was causing us problems, it was the fact that Rielly was the only D that could move the puck out of the zone on his first attempt more than 50% of the time, and that our expensive forwards couldn’t hit the net or make a pass. The amount of times Marner over handled the puck, lost the zone after a long cycle with exhausted defenders, and turned it into a breakaway against us was absurd. There’s no amount of grit or character that fixes that, only hand surgery or a lobotomy can.

Outside of the core 4, Rielly, and Knies we have NO talent. Who’s the next most talented player in the organization? Bunting or Kerfoot? These aren’t the days when we had skill and speed down the lineup, more than half of the lineup is slow and gritty now. Honestly Rielly and Nylander are the only fast players we have left, everyone else plays slow.

How everyone latched on to this one narrative in 2016 and absolutely refuses to let it go under any circumstances is insane. If I could press a button and have Matthews never back check or block a shot again but he gets his 60 goal hands/shot back, I’d mash it until it broke.

We had "talent" when Kapanen, AJ, Brown, Moore, Kadri etc were on the team/coming up from the system.

We didn't have good defensive depth and enough grit back then

Got rid of the talented support for better defense and more gritty depth and the top guys ended up falling off.

We need Knies + Robertson + Minten to be 50+ point producers within 2 years to recoup that skill along with the big 4

 

[Trapper]

Normally I’d agree but the injury history and likelihood of a decent content renewal change that equation for me.

It’s definitely homework time. Was his injury nagging and can heal properly.
Then the million dollar question: Are you staying?
Find these things out.

 

[BallardEra]

Look who's talking now:

 

[BraveCanadian]

It’s definitely homework time. Was his injury nagging and can heal properly.
Then the million dollar question: Are you staying?
Find these things out.

Supposedly his wrist that was finally healed late in the season was hurt again? If that is the case it has been bad a lot more often than good the last couple years and a goal scorer with a bum wrist isn’t a goal scorer so…

As far as the contract, if he’s willing to agree to an extension before the nmc kicks in then fine.. but I’m not sure they can sign on the dotted line before it kicks in?

If not, see ya.. can’t risk losing him for nothing and the team already bent over backwards on money AND term this deal.