The Core Has To Go

[Gabriel426]

Knies too

Thought Knies was given, lol.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Yeah not only were we unlucky to draw 8th seed Florida instead of Boston, don't forget we also unlucky to lose the first 3 games against Florida. If it wasn't for that piece of bad luck, maybe we'd have had a fighting chance. If we knew how to fight that is.

I'm starting to wonder about certain accounts being alt accounts of the usual suspects.

 

[baton elevated]

Also posted in the leafs eliminated thread.. meant to post it in this one

Well said, I have felt the exact same way the last few years (started with Columbus series). I was a fanatic for this team, watching drafts and following their every move was exciting. Not anymore, if the game is on or not, no big deal. Most of the time I record it and go through the game in an hour. The commentators and color analysts are horrifically boring. Is there nobody on this green earth better than Craig Simpson and Jim Huson. Why do we get Leaf haters to cover our games? Harry Neal and Bob Cole were the absolute elite and are sorely missed.

 

[thewave]

I'm starting to wonder about certain accounts being alt accounts of the usual suspects.

You got me! I am Dekes for... ah-ha-ha just kidding.

 

[ULF_55]

Tkachuk nailed it.

Leafs are loaded with talent.

That doesn't make them a playoffs winning team.

One of the double digits has to go so they can use that $11mm on 2 playoff performers.

Tavares has a NMC.

The decision is determining which one of Matthews or marner has the strength of character to help lead a team to victory?

 

[authentic]

Tkachuk nailed it.

Leafs are loaded with talent.

That doesn't make them a playoffs winning team.

One of the double digits has to go so they can use that $11mm on 2 playoff performers.

Tavares has a NMC.

The decision is determining which one of Matthews or marner has the strength of character to help lead a team to victory?

No, to be a playoff winning team you have to learn how to board from behind and get away with it, elbow to the head, grab a hold of sticks and just generally cheat your way to a win!

 

[ULF_55]

No, to be a playoff winning team you have to learn how to board from behind and get away with it, elbow to the head, grab a hold of sticks and just generally cheat your way to a win!

Pretty much.

Or at least not choke on the pressure.

 

[Gabriel426]

Tkachuk nailed it.

Leafs are loaded with talent.

That doesn't make them a playoffs winning team.

One of the double digits has to go so they can use that $11mm on 2 playoff performers.

Tavares has a NMC.

The decision is determining which one of Matthews or marner has the strength of character to help lead a team to victory?

It won’t be the first time someone being move with a NMC.

I think you have to convince JT to waive his NMC for another team before even thinking about trading the others.
He is an honourable guy and will probably do it.

 

[frizzer1]

Look at Seattle and vegas too.
They should trade everyone and apply to the league for an expansion team draft.
Stock up on big players who can skate, even if limited skill wise.
Easy peasy.

I don’t ever want to watch holl and Brodie again.
Neither can move the puck to the forwards which is one of the reasons they can’t get offense from the forwards.

 

[andora]

Well said, I have felt the exact same way the last few years (started with Columbus series). I was a fanatic for this team, watching drafts and following their every move was exciting. Not anymore, if the game is on or not, no big deal. Most of the time I record it and go through the game in an hour. The commentators and color analysts are horrifically boring. Is there nobody on this green earth better than Craig Simpson and Jim Huson. Why do we get Leaf haters to cover our games? Harry Neal and Bob Cole were the absolute elite and are sorely missed.

Yeah cole and neale were top tier

 

[BayStBullies]

No, to be a playoff winning team you have to learn how to board from behind and get away with it, elbow to the head, grab a hold of sticks and just generally cheat your way to a win!

Yes. So why do the Leafs not do it? Why do they lose and go off the ice with no fuss?

 

[Brown Dog]

I think this fanbase fell in love with rebuilding when the era of this core started. And I get it. It wasn't the wasteland of quick fixes and bandaid solutions we had endured for the past couple decades (or longer) and brought with it the promise of a world beyond our inevitable cycle of mediocrity.

But it also wasn't competing, which is hard and usually heartbreaking because it comes with expectations.

Rebuilding is the hockey fan equivalent of living the single life--where the present is low stakes and where a meaningful future can be imagined without the pain of living that reality. Maybe you check in for the game--or maybe you see what the Raptors are up to that night instead.

The infatuation with the rebuild was also cemented by how successful it was (or seemed to be at the time anyway). We hit big on Nylander and Marner, then got the lottery balls to fall our way in a year with a consensus #1 superstar at a position we'd been trying to fill since Mats. It was easy to feel positive about the direction of the team and there was a buzz of excitement about the possibilities. Like falling in love.

Maybe that's why there is this apparent perception that we just need to scrap this version a completely and try again and we're sure to have better success because Nylander and Marner and Matthews are frauds and if we get a divorce we'll find something real next time!

Lost in this idyllic vision of the future is that we are very likely going to take a large step back by dismantling the core of this team and there's a very good chance of being back in the wilderness if it's not done right.

I'm not saying we run it back, as some change is clearly needed. I'm just surprised how eager so many seem to be for teardown. I'm not excited about it, just sad.

 

[andora]

I think this fanbase fell in love with rebuilding when the era of this core started. And I get it. It wasn't the wasteland of quick fixes and bandaid solutions we had endured for the past couple decades (or longer) and brought with it the promise of a world beyond our inevitable cycle of mediocrity.

But it also wasn't competing, which is hard and usually heartbreaking because it comes with expectations.

Rebuilding is the hockey fan equivalent of living the single life--where the present is low stakes and where a meaningful future can be imagined without the pain of living that reality. Maybe you check in for the game--or maybe you see what the Raptors are up to that night instead.

The infatuation with the rebuild was also cemented by how successful it was (or seemed to be at the time anyway). We hit big on Nylander and Marner, then got the lottery balls to fall our way in a year with a consensus #1 superstar at a position we'd been trying to fill since Mats. It was easy to feel positive about the direction of the team and there was a buzz of excitement about the possibilities. Like falling in love.

Maybe that's why there is this apparent perception that we just need to scrap this version a completely and try again and we're sure to have better success because Nylander and Marner and Matthews are frauds and if we get a divorce we'll find something real next time!

Lost in this idyllic vision of the future is that we are very likely going to take a large step back by dismantling the core of this team and there's a very good chance of being back in the wilderness if it's not done right.

I'm not saying we run it back, as some change is clearly needed. I'm just surprised how eager so many seem to be for teardown. I'm not excited about it, just sad.

Well said

 

[sxvnert]

Only forward worth keeping is Willy Nylander. The rest are chokes.

 

[seventieslord]

Well said

Even I think this is very well said, and I would support a full rebuild.

 

[rielledup]

I think this fanbase fell in love with rebuilding when the era of this core started. And I get it. It wasn't the wasteland of quick fixes and bandaid solutions we had endured for the past couple decades (or longer) and brought with it the promise of a world beyond our inevitable cycle of mediocrity.

But it also wasn't competing, which is hard and usually heartbreaking because it comes with expectations.

Rebuilding is the hockey fan equivalent of living the single life--where the present is low stakes and where a meaningful future can be imagined without the pain of living that reality. Maybe you check in for the game--or maybe you see what the Raptors are up to that night instead.

The infatuation with the rebuild was also cemented by how successful it was (or seemed to be at the time anyway). We hit big on Nylander and Marner, then got the lottery balls to fall our way in a year with a consensus #1 superstar at a position we'd been trying to fill since Mats. It was easy to feel positive about the direction of the team and there was a buzz of excitement about the possibilities. Like falling in love.

Maybe that's why there is this apparent perception that we just need to scrap this version a completely and try again and we're sure to have better success because Nylander and Marner and Matthews are frauds and if we get a divorce we'll find something real next time!

Lost in this idyllic vision of the future is that we are very likely going to take a large step back by dismantling the core of this team and there's a very good chance of being back in the wilderness if it's not done right.

I'm not saying we run it back, as some change is clearly needed. I'm just surprised how eager so many seem to be for teardown. I'm not excited about it, just sad.

I'm fine with taking a step back and missing the playoffs for a couple of seasons.

If we did a full rebuild it wouldn't be a typical rebuild as we should have a big head start with the pieces we get back from trading the core.

What do we have to lose by trying to start over? This team clearly does not work and there's no reason to think it ever will.

 

[Antropovsky]

Is there any other core on another NHL team as afraid to get into a scrum as the leafs core?

I think Keefe is the biggest problem on the Leafs... But a core as soft as this teams just won't work.

 

[png57]

JT is the best one to be moved from a pure practical standpoint but I don't think the Laughs will even try it due to his age, cap hit and no-movement clause not to mention he is also a hometown boy who also happens to be captain.

Unpopular opinion here but I will give #34 some slack. The amount of things he does well defensively goes very unnoticed. He's been clutch in the playoffs before including Round 1 this year and it is a shame that his drought came at the worst possible time in Round 2 even though he hit a few posts. He is literally Ovi and Bergeron in one package when dialed in. Talent of this calibre don't come by often and if you move him you could be looking for years without a top centre like the Kessel days which is not fun.

Willy and Rielly have shown what they can do in the playoffs particularly this run so I think they deserve to stay. This leaves Mitch. I honestly think the kid cracks under pressure. You can see how sensitive he is based on watching his interviews particularly this round. Hard to say it doesn't affect his playoff performance to a certain degree at the very least.

 

[hockeyes]

I think this fanbase fell in love with rebuilding when the era of this core started. And I get it. It wasn't the wasteland of quick fixes and bandaid solutions we had endured for the past couple decades (or longer) and brought with it the promise of a world beyond our inevitable cycle of mediocrity.

But it also wasn't competing, which is hard and usually heartbreaking because it comes with expectations.

Rebuilding is the hockey fan equivalent of living the single life--where the present is low stakes and where a meaningful future can be imagined without the pain of living that reality. Maybe you check in for the game--or maybe you see what the Raptors are up to that night instead.

The infatuation with the rebuild was also cemented by how successful it was (or seemed to be at the time anyway). We hit big on Nylander and Marner, then got the lottery balls to fall our way in a year with a consensus #1 superstar at a position we'd been trying to fill since Mats. It was easy to feel positive about the direction of the team and there was a buzz of excitement about the possibilities. Like falling in love.

Maybe that's why there is this apparent perception that we just need to scrap this version a completely and try again and we're sure to have better success because Nylander and Marner and Matthews are frauds and if we get a divorce we'll find something real next time!

Lost in this idyllic vision of the future is that we are very likely going to take a large step back by dismantling the core of this team and there's a very good chance of being back in the wilderness if it's not done right.

I'm not saying we run it back, as some change is clearly needed. I'm just surprised how eager so many seem to be for teardown. I'm not excited about it, just sad.

Don't worry, the odds of an actual rebuild are very very low. Even trading a single one of the core forwards is probably only like 30%. The reality is, if it's Dubas or someone else, they won't be given the green light to rebuild, or even retool to trade a single star. MLSE board will want to milk these guys until they literally have to throw out jerseys, until then, thanks for the money. Being decent in the regular season and selling the idea that maybe this year is different is all they need to print money. Why would they jeprodize that by risking a big step back?

 

[yubbers]

They've already changed:
GM
Head Coach
Asst Coaches
Goalies
Dmen
Bottom 6

What's next, changing the scouting staff before you realize the core is the problem??

The team is lead by a Cabbage Patch kid. Leadership is soft. So the team is soft. Not rocket sicence.

 

[WillNy29]

Matthews holds the cards…. After sleeping on it you still stay the course. IF he wants to extend you extend him.
IF he wants out… my guesses are

1.) LA
2.) Dallas
3.) Vegas
4.) NYR
5.) carolina
6.) Anaheim.
7.) Arizona

I would GUESS he wants a big market with southern weather and a chance to compete. Tax rates probably Help.

1.) LA has the assets and can fit him in if there is retention this year with kopitar coming off the next year. My guesses would be

Iafallo/arvidsson, Walker for cap and a combo of vilardi/byfield/clarke
Something like arvidson, walker byfield, 1st,3rd could work

2.) Dallas has better prospects… I would look at faksa, dellandrea, Harley and something

3.) Vegas can actually fit him in. No taxes always competing close with eichel. I would look at Roy, Hague/whitecloud, Brisson, 1st.

4.) NYR. They will want changes. It is a huge team. Kane would probably sign there cheap. Colder, pressure, taxes… not sure if he would want that but
Chytil or Miller,Laff and 1st could work.

5.) Carolina. Dark horse. Freddie is his bestie. No real pressure. Good team. I wonder if they would pay him. But they have tons of space, good prospecrts/picks.

I would do necas straight up. Just because of RFA.

6.) Anaheim. Probably not because of where they are. But I would do mctavish/zellweger.

6.) Arizona. He is buddies with Keller. I don’t think he would ever go there… but grouse 6th and 12th may work.

Only if u think u could flip those picks and extend someone. Like lindholm for the 12th or something

all of these trades leave us laughably weak at centre and likely to not be able to get a good one for a while so probably a long time without getting to the playoffs let alone playoff success anyways

Would you guys have interest in Byfield?

lol not for Matthews

 

[WillNy29]

View attachment 708118

didn't he have less hits block and block shots than Matthews? and the same amount of goals?

 

[Kiwi]

all of these trades leave us laughably weak at centre and likely to not be able to get a good one for a while so probably a long time without getting to the playoffs let alone playoff success anyways


lol not for Matthews

You realize he might not resign right?

The way you lot talk you would think that choke job who's going to demand massive money is definitely going to want to stay here
If he walks for nothing next season everybody in management should never work in the industry again

Jesus we may not even make the playoffs you say, holy hell how are we ever going to exist without the magnificent success we've all become accustomed to year after year

 

[WillNy29]

I'm fine with taking a step back and missing the playoffs for a couple of seasons.

If we did a full rebuild it wouldn't be a typical rebuild as we should have a big head start with the pieces we get back from trading the core.

What do we have to lose by trying to start over? This team clearly does not work and there's no reason to think it ever will.

how do we know it would be a couple of seasons, what happens if we end up with the basic leafs luck and miss the playoffs for a decade like Buffalo?

there are no guarantees in the NHL and if you're willing to tear it down and rebuild you'll likely have to be ok with probably 7ish years again before becoming a contender. People here got spoiled because we made it to the playoffs literally the year after tanking. What if that doesn't happen again? do we tear it down again and rebuild again?

 

[Buds17]

I think this fanbase fell in love with rebuilding when the era of this core started. And I get it. It wasn't the wasteland of quick fixes and bandaid solutions we had endured for the past couple decades (or longer) and brought with it the promise of a world beyond our inevitable cycle of mediocrity.

But it also wasn't competing, which is hard and usually heartbreaking because it comes with expectations.

Rebuilding is the hockey fan equivalent of living the single life--where the present is low stakes and where a meaningful future can be imagined without the pain of living that reality. Maybe you check in for the game--or maybe you see what the Raptors are up to that night instead.

The infatuation with the rebuild was also cemented by how successful it was (or seemed to be at the time anyway). We hit big on Nylander and Marner, then got the lottery balls to fall our way in a year with a consensus #1 superstar at a position we'd been trying to fill since Mats. It was easy to feel positive about the direction of the team and there was a buzz of excitement about the possibilities. Like falling in love.

Maybe that's why there is this apparent perception that we just need to scrap this version a completely and try again and we're sure to have better success because Nylander and Marner and Matthews are frauds and if we get a divorce we'll find something real next time!

Lost in this idyllic vision of the future is that we are very likely going to take a large step back by dismantling the core of this team and there's a very good chance of being back in the wilderness if it's not done right.

I'm not saying we run it back, as some change is clearly needed. I'm just surprised how eager so many seem to be for teardown. I'm not excited about it, just sad.

Good post! A rebuild made enough sense then because it hadn't been tried and other methods weren't exactly successful. Shanahan and/or Dubas would be quite foolish to even approach ownership with such a suggestion right now IMO. I feel as though it might be time to move a core piece (likely Nylander) since the Tavares-Nylander combo in particular isn't a great option to run with for the amount invested in it. Changes at the GM and coaching level probably shouldn't be ruled out entirely either in terms of assembling and utilizing a supporting cast of change. Starting anew and missing the playoffs definitely shouldn't be the aim here.