The Core Has To Go

[ShaneFalco]

View attachment 708118

Accurate

 

[Trapper]

Why does MT get it but our guys and GM do not ?? FFS Shanny forgot it. Guess it helps when your dad was such a player.

We need management in here that does get it and do what the Sharks never did: move Thornton and Marleau.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Buffalo seems to have vastly improved after trading their best player in Eichel. Sometimes you can have an addition by subtraction thing happening. This whole, "we will lost any trade because we are giving the best player" trope needs to die. Boston did fine trading away Jumbo...there are many cases like that.

Yeah all we have to do is have a random 2nd round pick become a 6’8 50/50 C or have a random 2nd round pick become a PPG repeat Selke winner.

 

[Gallagbi]

That says all you need to know about this core. The sad part is so many want to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic instead of accepting a rebuild is necessary

You retool before a rebuild imo

 

[stealth1]

You retool before a rebuild imo

They have tried retooling but til the move some to the big 4 this will be the end result.

IMO you trade Matthews and Marner this summer and build around Nylander, Knies and Reilly.

 

[Gallagbi]

They have tried retooling but til the move some to the big 4 this will be the end result.

IMO you trade Matthews and Marner this summer and build around Nylander, Knies and Reilly.

That's retool unless you're looking for all picks back

 

[ULF_55]

As much as we all love advanced stats.

I can't find them on the scoreboard when they are determing the winners.

Of course there are other attributes in winning a game, you have your defenders, goalies and producers.

marner

Rielly

Matthews

Nylander

O'Rielly

Tavares

 

[GoonieFace]

They've already changed:
GM
Head Coach
Asst Coaches
Goalies
Dmen
Bottom 6

What's next, changing the scouting staff before you realize the core is the problem??

Maybe changing the brand of toilet paper at Scotiabank is the lift they need

 

[613Leafer]

Tavares with his NMC and contract VERY likely can't be moved.

So what's the best way to use him? I would be strongly looking at stripping the captaincy, simply as part of a series of moves to really try and shake up the dressing room a bit.

Also, while it's been toyed with in the past, I think the offseason should include a coherent plan to get him permanently moved over to the wing. He's too slow and too much of a defensive liability to play centre - let him play as a winger who is good along the boards and who can drive the net.

 

[ULF_55]

Last 5 years:

Player	S/C	Pos	GP	G	A	P	Cap Hit %	Cap Hit $
Auston Matthews	L	C	37​	17​	20​	37​	14.1	$11,640,250
Mitchell Marner	R	R	37​	7​	27​	34​	13.2	$10,903,000
William Nylander	R	R	37​	15​	17​	32​	8.4	$6,962,366
Morgan Rielly	L	D	37​	10​	17​	27​	9.1	$7,500,000
John Tavares	L	C	31​	11​	11​	22​	13.3	$11,000,000

Rielly is just on his new cap hit this year, he was at 7%.

 

[Gary Nylund]

IMO why so many are against that is they don't want to start over again. Whats so good about making the playoffs if they you know they aren't winning anything. Doesn't matter how good Vegas says they are right @Gary Nylund or how good those analytics day right @Dekes For Days

Hard to know anything for sure, and I think Vegas was correct in having the Leafs as one of the top teams, I think they had the 4th best odds or something like that before the playoffs started and I think that's fair. I know some people say the Leafs can't win, if that were true then they should 10000000 to 1 to win but that just doesn't make sense. There were a ton of people who said we'd never win a round with this core and look what happened, we finally did win a round against a very strong TB team. Bobrovsky somehow turned into a superstar overnight or we may have gotten past FLA as well. It's also not inconceivable that they keep the core together and win it all next year.

That said, I don't see it happening. Time for big changes and if I was running things then Keefe would the first one gone, if Dubas didn't like it he'd be next, then I'd try to sign Matthews and Nylander if the price was fair and if not, they'd be gone too. Then comes Marner, I'm assuming he's still worth a lot in a trade and if he is, he'd be gone regardless of whether or not Matthews and/or Nylander are still here. Those are the biggest pieces, depending on what's left after that I'd start thinking about the rest.

They have tried retooling but til the move some to the big 4 this will be the end result.

IMO you trade Matthews and Marner this summer and build around Nylander, Knies and Reilly.

I'd be completely fine with that, I'd also be fine with resigning Matthews depending on the price.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Opinion | Who’s in charge of the Maple Leafs’ future? The chain of command could be turned upside down here

It’s usually ownership calling the shots, moving down through managers, then coaches and finally to the players. That may not be the case in Toronto.

www.thestar.com

The first option is simply to roll that same foursome back for another year. This group has seen five years of disappointing endings — seven for Matthews, Marner and Nylander. But contractually, bringing them back for one more year is possible. The risk, however, makes the idea a moot point.

With one year remaining for both Matthews and Nylander, they would both reach unrestricted free agency on July 1, 2024. Both are eligible for extensions on July 1 of this year. Choosing not to sign new contracts at that point would give them control moving forward. Marner has two years remaining on his deal, but garners a full no-movement clause July 1 this year, so he essentially gains control then. Tavares is the most secure, with two years remaining and a full no-move currently in place. He is not going anywhere.

It’s a lot to digest. In a nutshell, the first three are inextricably tied together, and Matthews with his Hart Trophy and two Rocket Richard trophies drives the bus. Should he opt not to sign a new deal, the leverage moves to his side. He could then influence any moves with the others, stating his desire to return only if he’s happy with the rest of the roster.

One can only imagine all three in the same room on July 1, deciding their short- and long-term futures.

For a similar case, Matthews need only look at Matthew Tkachuk, the de facto leader of the Florida Panthers who just eliminated his team. Last summer, Tkachuk informed the Calgary Flames he would be playing out his contract and targeting free agency. The Flames’ hand was forced. Rather than losing him at the end of the season, they fashioned a multi-player deal that sent Tkachuk exactly where he wanted to go in the sunny south, and he subsequently inked a long-term deal.

Control has increasingly leaned toward the players in these cases, and will again with Matthews.

The bigger question for Leafs management may be whether all of the Core Four should return for an encore. Though the choice might not be entirely theirs as the pieces fall, the group as a whole has not worked despite individual success in the regular season.

The stars have not led the way at critical times. Something is missing. Seven years is more than long enough to judge.

From the arrival of Tavares through a change in coaches and a revolving door of support players, including the most recent trade-deadline additions of Cup-pedigreed talent, the mix has never been quite right. At times brilliant, there has been a maddening inconsistency and too often unwillingness to do what is required at the most demanding moments.

Those last points will very likely lead to changes that could be welcomed by both the club and the key players involved.

The real question may be who is actually in control of that change.

 

[rielledup]

Why would anyone want to continue with this core after 7 years with one series win where they looked like crap and then followed that up with getting eliminated in 5?

If you can get a big return for Marner and Matthews you do it and get a big head start on the rebuild.

 

[Funk21]

Tavares with his NMC and contract VERY likely can't be moved.

So what's the best way to use him? I would be strongly looking at stripping the captaincy, simply as part of a series of moves to really try and shake up the dressing room a bit.

Also, while it's been toyed with in the past, I think the offseason should include a coherent plan to get him permanently moved over to the wing. He's too slow and too much of a defensive liability to play centre - let him play as a winger who is good along the boards and who can drive the net.

You strip him of his captaincy and tell him the team is rebuilding and he is not a part of the future. If he wants to stay then it going to be two years of him likely not making the playoffs. I suspect he waived his NMC.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

View attachment 708118

Bang on.

The entire hockey world knows this is the truth and it's been the case since the Montreal series.

 

[kliq]

The team has been a disappointment to put it mildly. They just don’t have it and while Dubas has moved heaven and earth to keep them together and do Cap Gymnastics putting together version after version of this group they just are winners or the type of players who hate losing more than they like winning. They are regular season superstars and that just doesn’t cut it.

Both AM and Nylander are eligible for contract extensions this summer and it’s my belief that both should be traded because trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Do we again tear it down to the studs or do we keep some players?
IMO Trade:
Am
Nylander
JT-but I don’t think anybody would take him unfortunately
Lafferty
Murray-even if it’s for a coke machine
Brodie

Honestly if we can get Bedard or Fantilli or a player like Byfield plus for AM I do it. I even look at trading him to Zona to get a boatload of picks. We are up against the cap and can’t build a proper team With the type of money AM and Nylander are likely looking for. The great thing is some other team likely is willing to pay a kings ransom for them. This is not an overreaction this core sucks.

Keep
Marner
Reilly
Samsonov
Woll
Liljegren
Timmins
Knies

I hate to say this as I do like the Leafs despite being a Wings fan (I grew up in Windsor following both)…..but there is a stereotype that certain Leafs fans are delusional. Making a thread where you are proposing trading AM with a year left n his contract for Connor Bedard is exactly why those stereotypes exist.

Now to be clear, I see the majority in here see that and are calling it out……but come on, how can you think that’s even within the rhelm of possibility?

 

[sxvnert]

That's the part that I think enrages fans more than anything. They assured us that they were worth the money they were asking for because they were the important ones...and they left nothing for surrounding talent. Just a few % points less on the cap hit and you have yourself some room....but no...they had to grab every last cent. Now...eat those cents...

"But no one could have predicted the flat cap!" While continuing to sign terrible contracts & refusing to move any of the core four.

How much better could this playoff roster have been if $10,287,500 [Kerfoot $3,500,000, Murray $4,687,500 Järnkrok $2,100,000] was used on better players.

I'm far more pissed off at Dubas/Keefe than the failing core.

 

[sxvnert]

They have tried retooling but til the move some to the big 4 this will be the end result.

IMO you trade Matthews and Marner this summer and build around Nylander, Knies and Reilly.

People against moving Matthews + Marner don't seem to understand that cap space is an asset.

 

[GoonieFace]

I hate to say this as I do like the Leafs despite being a Wings fan (I grew up in Windsor following both)…..but there is a stereotype that certain Leafs fans are delusional. Making a thread where you are proposing trading AM with a year left n his contract for Connor Bedard is exactly why those stereotypes exist.

Now to be clear, I see the majority in here see that and are calling it out……but come on, how can you think that’s even within the rhelm of possibility?

Holl for Bedard is more reasonable, let me clarify..Miriam Bedard

 

[ACC1224]

I doubt they make any substantial changes. Just the normal off season retooling

 

[Eternal Leaf]

It's hard to know what's out there on the market as a fan.

Ideally, I'd look at flipping Marner for a premier defenceman. I think a swap like that would be a good way to redistribute the cap and then you can begin adding depth to the forward core.

Regardless, they need to find a way to move on from Tavares (if he waives) or Marner.

 

[disgruntleddave]

Nobody is taking tavares. The assets it would cost to move him would be too high too.

 

[Gabriel426]

A Marner can definitely be traded like those two players mentioned. The return is obviously important but it also doesn’t have to be superstar for a greater superstar. You can get valuable pieces by committee that give you a different look, picks and cap flexibility all at the same time and if those tools are used properly it can be positive.

Of course the greatest chance of success is to avoid a panic sell.

We are at a point where nobody but Reilly, Woll and Sammy are safe.
It all depends on the package and not dumping players.

 

[stealth1]

I doubt they make any substantial changes. Just the normal off season retooling

It will be the same ending. Sure let's run back again.

 

[authentic]

We are at a point where nobody but Reilly, Woll and Sammy are safe.
It all depends on the package and not dumping players.

Knies too