New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[YearlyLottery]

Do you think this team can win a cup with those guys as the core?

Do you think in the current lottery era we can restart all the way to 0, get lucky multiple times to win the lottery, and get multiple franchise pieces each year?

Whichever path forward is not easy.

 

[periferal]

Do you think in the current lottery era we can restart all the way to 0, get lucky multiple times to win the lottery, and get multiple franchise pieces each year?

Whichever path forward is not easy.

Well of course any path forward is not going to be easy. The real question is...What is possible? Is it even possible for this core to be salvaged into a Cup contender? Because I have serious reservations that is possible given the overall talent in the organization, cap, etc.

This team is nowhere near good enough to win a Cup now. So if you commit to a 2-3 year "retool" you need to add a couple of top pieces to get them to Cup contention (which you're only getting via a trade and not even sure how you'd get 1 much less 2/3 or how to fit them all under the cap). And in that time other key players like Pageau, Mayfield, Cizikas, Pelech, and Lee will either be gone or done - And then you'll have to also replace them.

This is why I couldn't stand Lou. As a matephor for his GMing...He kept maxing out our credit card on average things, and then to get a higher credit limit would switch to a credit card with a higher interest rate. Eventually you can't switch anymore and the bill becomes due.

I am super happy Lou is gone (partly so he can't do any more damage), but his tenure is going to have this team suffering a bunch and for a while. The sooner the next GM admits that and starts paying down those credit card bills the sooner we can realistically talk about being a contender again...But the pain of purging the fat from Lou's roster construction needs to happen before that can happen.

 

[LeapOnOver]

This is a fair thought process but it put the Jackets in a terrible position right after that they still have not recovered from.

I don't know...just missing the playoffs seems like they are recovering.

 

[WangMustGo]

Do you think in the current lottery era we can restart all the way to 0, get lucky multiple times to win the lottery, and get multiple franchise pieces each year?

Whichever path forward is not easy.

I think a path to winning the cup is through a total rebuild. I don’t think this core is capable of winning a cup. To be a real threat to win a cup I think you need to add 2 legit star forwards, a couple of top pairing defensemen, and a few good depth players. The only way to get the high end players is through the draft. Once you have those players you need to supplement them with cheap young players.

A rebuild is not easy, you need lottery luck and you need to develop your talent, I hate the idea of sucking for a while, but I’d rather have a team that can win a cup than a team that flirts with the playoffs and at best wins a round.

 

[LeapOnOver]

There is a fine line between "balls" and "stupidity." Jarmo had a franchise that had never won a single playoff series, was not coming close to a Cup that year, and was going to lose 3 of their 5 best players in free agency.

He essentially had 3 "Brock Nelson situations" on his hands on a 7th seeded team and decided to go "all in."

I fail to see that as "balls."

Keep that guy FAR FAR away from this franchise.

I know your opinion is always, only the stacked team can win the Stanley Cup, but your concrete assertions on who is 'not coming close to a cup' falls on deaf ears with me because I'm not arrogant enough to think I know results before they happen. So if you respond to my posts, let's stick to facts and not conjecture.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

If we keep them all then this team will be as disjointed as the teams Lou gave us. A core of over 30s on the back 9 of their careers by the time we’re ready to compete with our home growns.

For clarity, the post I responded to mentioned these gentlemen:
<<<
Hopefully Barzal, Horvat, Romanov, Holmstrom, Dobson, Sorokin want to stay.
<<<

Those were the only ones I was referring to.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

This is why I couldn't stand Lou. As a matephor for his GMing...He kept maxing out our credit card on average things, and then to get a higher credit limit would switch to a credit card with a higher interest rate. Eventually you can't switch anymore and the bill becomes due.

I really like this metaphorical analogy.

I am super happy Lou is gone (partly so he can't do any more damage), but his tenure is going to have this team suffering a bunch and for a while. The sooner the next GM admits that and starts paying down those credit card bills the sooner we can realistically talk about being a contender again...But the pain of purging the fat from Lou's roster construction needs to happen before that can happen.

My big hope is that whoever comes in is coming in with the clear directive to take a different route, yet understands that a teardown isn't really possible with the current contracts designed as they are.

Thus, he or she won't be asked to "get rid" of certain players, cost what it may.

I don't know how painful the fat purging will end up being, but I do know that several of the players we'd ideally like to move have to give the green light to be moved ([M]NTCs).

What we do know is that, if desired, both MacLean and Engvall are buriable.

We also know that Palms, DeAngelo, Reilly, Fasching, and Martin can just walk.

Even if no-one else can be moved in a sensicle manner, then this is the wiggle room new management has.

Of course, somebody who has contract-signing authority needs to be brought in fairly soon because you don't want to hit July 1st with your RFA business not yet taken care of. And you should spend a good chunk of June designing your various draft plans - trade ideas included.

Dobson, Holmstrom, Romanov, Tsyplakov, Gatcomb, Boqvist, Perunovich, Bolduc, Beckman, and Foudy are all RFA topics that decisions need to be made on, some far more pertinent than others.

There's a world of opportunity.

This also includes a path that simply upgrades on the UFAs moving out and via the demotion of several on two-way contracts.

I'm just so glad we're not facing an offseason with the certain continuation of the metaphorical analogy you presented above.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I think a path to winning the cup is through a total rebuild. I don’t think this core is capable of winning a cup. To be a real threat to win a cup I think you need to add 2 legit star forwards, a couple of top pairing defensemen, and a few good depth players. The only way to get the high end players is through the draft. Once you have those players you need to supplement them with cheap young players.

A rebuild is not easy, you need lottery luck and you need to develop your talent, I hate the idea of sucking for a while, but I’d rather have a team that can win a cup than a team that flirts with the playoffs and at best wins a round.

In the past I'd agree with you. But we have not seen a team rebuild entirely through the new lottery and win a Cup that way.

 

[Chardo]

I wonder what Collins and Malkin want. Do they think the team needs a few tweaks or a full rebuild? Will that opinion factor in the interview process?

 

[12Dog]

Isles firing the long-time equipment manager, Leni DiCostanzo and strength and conditioning coach, Derrek Douglas. Both been with NYI over 15 years.

And demoting team massage therapist Jim Miccio to the Bridge. He had been with NYI for over 24 (!!) years.

Continues the theme of clearing out the old boys club even further.

Is Casey’s caddie still employed?

 

[GM4Hire]

To get away from a full rebuild, it’s going to take a few major deals that is going to remove some unwanted parts along the way to reset quickly.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Do you think this team can win a cup with those guys as the core?

I do and with the true target competition window in 2-4 years. That is reliant upon the younger core pieces to pan out and supplement the aging core (Ritchie, Eiserman, Bednarik, 2025 firsts) and hopefully an impact addition (via trade or UFA).

Age windows for 2-4 years
Barzal (29-31yo), Horvat (32-34yo), Romanov (27-29yo), Holmstrom (25-27yo), Dobson (27-29yo), Sorokin (31-33yo)

 

[doublechili]

I wonder what Collins and Malkin want. Do they think the team needs a few tweaks or a full rebuild? Will that opinion factor in the interview process?

C'mon, we're trying to decide things here. I don't see what Collins and Malkin have to do with this.

 

[periferal]

I know your opinion is always, only the stacked team can win the Stanley Cup, but your concrete assertions on who is 'not coming close to a cup' falls on deaf ears with me because I'm not arrogant enough to think I know results before they happen. So if you respond to my posts, let's stick to facts and not conjecture.

Do I really have to explain that of course no one knows what the future holds. That said we can look backwards to what has actually happened to determine that there are patterns that seem to bear out over time.

Just look at the past 10-15 years of Cup winners. They all had a level of talent significantly above what the Isles have now. Of course for some even that can be debated, but I think it's as obvious as the earth being round.

With that said I'd like to add the kind of talent I always see circling around a Cup. You know guys like MacKinnon, Hedman, Crosby, Kane, Toews, Makar, McDavid, Pietrangelo, Eichel, Doughty, Malkin, Stamkos, Draisaitl, and the list goes on. And we don't need to discuss how most all of these guys are acquired because it's been dicsussed and very obvious.

So there are no absolutes, but there are very obvious trends that lead to Cups..And I'd like to be part of those trends, as opposed to not facing that your favorite teams' roster is nowhere near talented enough to win it all.

 

[mm11]

Do I really have to explain that of course no one knows what the future holds. That said we can look backwards to what has actually happened to determine that there are patterns that seem to bear out over time.

Just look at the past 10-15 years of Cup winners. They all had a level of talent significantly above what the Isles have now. Of course for some even that can be debated, but I think it's as obvious as the earth being round.

With that said I'd like to add the kind of talent I always see circling around a Cup. You know guys like MacKinnon, Hedman, Crosby, Kane, Toews, Makar, McDavid, Pietrangelo, Eichel, Doughty, Malkin, Stamkos, Draisaitl, and the list goes on. And we don't need to discuss how most all of these guys are acquired because it's been dicsussed and very obvious.

So there are no absolutes, but there are very obvious trends that lead to Cups..And I'd like to be part of those trends, as opposed to not facing that your favorite teams' roster is nowhere near talented enough to win it all.

Except, two of those guys never won a cup.

 

[periferal]

To get away from a full rebuild, it’s going to take a few major deals that is going to remove some unwanted parts along the way to reset quickly.

True, but I'm wondering how a rebuild can be avoided. What "major deals" could be made that could get this team back to contender status within 1-2 years?

Sure you could trade prospects like Eiserman, D. Nelson, Ritchie, and 1st round picks for a very good vet player, but how are you fitting that player under our cap after we pay Dobson (and who is even trading a 9M+ player)? And if you trade Dobson then our D isn't good enough and you have to replace him.

There needs to be a total reset where at minimum everyone but Sorokin can be traded (and if you want to do a rebuild actually best to trade him first as we'll probably never be bad enough with him to get a top 5 pick.

We probably shouldn't be adding any players over the age of 27. Also there needs to be a total focus on revamping the scouting department and maximizing the value of every pick.

 

[periferal]

Except, two of those guys never won a cup.

I always know who I'm dealing with when the reply circumvents the point and avoids having a legit conversation about the issue at hand.

But you're right - McDavid and Draisaitl, despite coming within 2 goals of a Cup, never won one. Good one. If they ever hit the trade market make sure you come back and remind us how not interested in them you are.

 

[mm11]

I always know who I'm dealing with when the reply circumvents the point and avoids having a legit conversation about the issue at hand.

But you're right - McDavid and Draisaitl, despite coming within 2 goals of a Cup, never won one. Good one. If they ever hit the trade market make sure you come back and remind us how not interested in them you are.

I like to fact-check on hockey data. I'm a nerd. If I can interject, like your thoughts on revamping the scouting department.

 

[BMOK33]

Do I really have to explain that of course no one knows what the future holds. That said we can look backwards to what has actually happened to determine that there are patterns that seem to bear out over time.

Just look at the past 10-15 years of Cup winners. They all had a level of talent significantly above what the Isles have now. Of course for some even that can be debated, but I think it's as obvious as the earth being round.

With that said I'd like to add the kind of talent I always see circling around a Cup. You know guys like MacKinnon, Hedman, Crosby, Kane, Toews, Makar, McDavid, Pietrangelo, Eichel, Doughty, Malkin, Stamkos, Draisaitl, and the list goes on. And we don't need to discuss how most all of these guys are acquired because it's been dicsussed and very obvious.

So there are no absolutes, but there are very obvious trends that lead to Cups..And I'd like to be part of those trends, as opposed to not facing that your favorite teams' roster is nowhere near talented enough to win it all.

In general most teams always have an elite #1 center and a dman who plays 30-35 minutes who is total shutdown, the final piece is often a 3rd and 4th line that combine for like 20-40 goals in season. Rarely do you see a team win a cup missing any of those 3. I think the lack of a first one is largely why the Rangers never won a cup the last 15 years. The goaltender does not matter as much as people think. some really bad goaltenders have won cups

 

[PK Cronin]

In general most teams always have an elite #1 center and a dman who plays 30-35 minutes who is total shutdown, the final piece is often a 3rd and 4th line that combine for like 20-40 goals in season. Rarely do you see a team win a cup missing any of those 3. I think the lack of a first one is largely why the Rangers never won a cup the last 15 years. The goaltender does not matter as much as people think. some really bad goaltenders have won cups

I've always viewed it as 2 top tier forwards, 1 elite defenseman, 1 good goaltender. An elite goaltender makes up if you have a lesser version of one of the other pieces, but if you're really good in the other areas then a mediocre goaltender can win.

 

[WangMustGo]

I do and with the true target competition window in 2-4 years. That is reliant upon the younger core pieces to pan out and supplement the aging core (Ritchie, Eiserman, Bednarik, 2025 firsts) and hopefully an impact addition (via trade or UFA).

Age windows for 2-4 years
Barzal (29-31yo), Horvat (32-34yo), Romanov (27-29yo), Holmstrom (25-27yo), Dobson (27-29yo), Sorokin (31-33yo)

Not saying you are wrong, but I just don’t see it. Look at recent Stanley cup teams. Where is the Tkachuk, Barkov, Mackinnon, Makar, Kucherov, Hedman, Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo? Those teams all have one thing in common at least 2 superstar players.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I don't know...just missing the playoffs seems like they are recovering.

It's almost been a decade since those trades took place.

 

[GM4Hire]

True, but I'm wondering how a rebuild can be avoided. What "major deals" could be made that could get this team back to contender status within 1-2 years?

Sure you could trade prospects like Eiserman, D. Nelson, Ritchie, and 1st round picks for a very good vet player, but how are you fitting that player under our cap after we pay Dobson (and who is even trading a 9M+ player)? And if you trade Dobson then our D isn't good enough and you have to replace him.

There needs to be a total reset where at minimum everyone but Sorokin can be traded (and if you want to do a rebuild actually best to trade him first as we'll probably never be bad enough with him to get a top 5 pick.

We probably shouldn't be adding any players over the age of 27. Also there needs to be a total focus on revamping the scouting department and maximizing the value of every pick.

I'm thinking one of Barzal/Dobson/Horvat packaged along with one or 2 of Pelech/Pulock/Mayfield for a few younger , cheaper just about there type of players for a little cap room to start a faster retool

 

[WangMustGo]

I'm thinking one of Barzal/Dobson/Horvat packaged along with one or 2 of Pelech/Pulock/Mayfield for a few younger , cheaper just about there type of players for a little cap room to start a faster retool

Adding Pelech/Pulock/Mayfield reduces the value of Dobson/Horvat/Barzal. Not to mention no one will want to take that massive cap hit for young players.

 

[YearlyLottery]

True, but I'm wondering how a rebuild can be avoided. What "major deals" could be made that could get this team back to contender status within 1-2 years?

Sure you could trade prospects like Eiserman, D. Nelson, Ritchie, and 1st round picks for a very good vet player, but how are you fitting that player under our cap after we pay Dobson (and who is even trading a 9M+ player)? And if you trade Dobson then our D isn't good enough and you have to replace him.

There needs to be a total reset where at minimum everyone but Sorokin can be traded (and if you want to do a rebuild actually best to trade him first as we'll probably never be bad enough with him to get a top 5 pick.

We probably shouldn't be adding any players over the age of 27. Also there needs to be a total focus on revamping the scouting department and maximizing the value of every pick.

I think in order to avoid a major rebuild they need to acquire an elite talent via the draft sooner rather than later. That much we 100% agree with.

Now... Will a team with Barzal, Sorokin, Dobson, and Horvat finish low enough to have a top draft pick? Not unless the ping pong balls go our way.