The Core Has To Go

[Stephen]

When we win tomorrow… I expect you to continue cheering for failure.

Let’s be very clear here. No one’s cheering for failure. We’re living in failure that we have no control over. And dissecting and analyzing failure and trying to discuss alternative ways of doing things and to imagine what a failure free future might look like.

If they win and make it 3-1 it doesn’t change what they did in the first 3 games. If they come back and win Game 7, they will have done something that has virtually happened in over 100 years of this sport. So why wouldn’t they get their flowers then?

 

[GojuLeaf]

Neither mathews or Nylander have shown up in the biggest games .
Take a look at what the core 4 hame done when the chips are on the line nothing.
I just want a hard working team like Seattle that hits and work no stars.

That'd be all nice and good if you thought Seattle would win the cup but realistically they will be out in the conf finals.

 

[WillyC]

Let’s be very clear here. No one’s cheering for failure. We’re living in failure that we have no control over. And dissecting and analyzing failure and trying to discuss alternative ways of doing things and to imagine what a failure free future might look like.

If they win and make it 3-1 it doesn’t change what they did in the first 3 games. If they come back and win Game 7, they will have done something that has virtually happened in over 100 years of this sport. So why wouldn’t they get their flowers then?

Feel free to get back on the bandwagon when they win tomorrow… or continue on with the other pessimists in saying it’s only one win, they’ll lose game 5 at home.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

And whats weird is our president was a mean talented sob when he played and our coach was a nasty little prick when he played.....something doesnt add up

Is it possible that the message from the top is to be as PC, corporate-friendly and marketable as possible, and that this message pervades the organization as a result?

Toronto has always been a city that has embraced effort, grit and determination in its hockey team. Haven't been to TO in years but arrogant, flashy, soft perimeter play is not what the Leafs stood for at any point in the past when they were Cup contenders.

 

[Stephen]

His 5on5 quality of play and skating are erratic against the role and expectations of a 1C. Lowered paid 1/2 goalscoring LW? Still an asset. If he can do a job at an appropriate price point (or less) not bringing him back "just because" is acting like a jilted ex, not rationally. JT would be 35 to start his next contract. Marleau was 38, Thornton 41. Absolutely nothing wrong with Gio and Spezza's time here.

.

Look. If the Leafs become more of a better balanced, hungrier pack rat team with speed, size, youth, less of a top heavy profile, let’s say like Florida’s middle 6 or Seattle or Carolina or something, I don’t want JT hanging around and having to build a special pairing to get more juice out of him starting in 2025. By that time we will have honoured a 7 year agreement and we can part ways amicably. There’s no reason to bring him back for sentimental reasons. That’s my take but feel free to include him in your vision of a retool.

 

[Gabriel426]

Ouchie lol

Once again, the boys will win the expected Stanley Cup and we will go be joining the expected parade.
Advanced stats like this really don’t show much bc the only important stats is the W and actual goals scored.

 

[Aashir]

If we have to take a step back next season, like Florida, so be it. You can not continue with the core 4 any more.

Step back…lol

I get what you are saying, but they’ve went further than anything they’ve seen since 96.

I wish our leafs could’ve done this when we weee a bubble team like florida in the reg season in 19-20. I hope we can do it next year if we have a nice retool.

Once again, the boys will win the expected Stanley Cup and we will go be joining the expected parade.
Advanced stats like this really don’t show much bc the only important stats is the W and actual goals scored.

The only stats that matter in those list: the first one and last one. Everything squished in between is meaningless.

And those two stats are ironically the two worst ones for our core

 

[Suntouchable13]

Step back…lol

I get what you are saying, but they’ve went further than anything they’ve seen since 96.

I wish our leafs could’ve done this when we weee a bubble team like florida in the reg season in 19-20. I hope we can do it next year if we have a nice retool.

Yes, if we take a step back in the regular season but advance further in the playoffs that’s all that matters.

 

[horner]

That'd be all nice and good if you thought Seattle would win the cup but realistically they will be out in the conf finals.

At least they eould have made the conference finals.

 

[4thline]

Look. If the Leafs become more of a better balanced, hungrier pack rat team with speed, size, youth, less of a top heavy profile, let’s say like Florida’s middle 6 or Seattle or Carolina or something, I don’t want JT hanging around and having to build a special pairing to get more juice out of him starting in 2025.

If do that why would we need a special pairing to get more juice out of him? His shot, boardwork, and hands in tight would be tailor made for that game, as long as he wasn't playing F1

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Is it possible that the message from the top is to be as PC, corporate-friendly and marketable as possible, and that this message pervades the organization as a result?

Toronto has always been a city that has embraced effort, grit and determination in its hockey team. Haven't been to TO in years but arrogant, flashy, soft perimeter play is not what the Leafs stood for at any point in the past when they were Cup contenders.

Absolutely it comes from the top. There is no other way to explain it other than it is mandated not to cause scrums or take penalties no matter who did something to your teammates. LeBrun said as much after the montreal series....he said other GM's said our organization is just "nice" and they play that way...like gentlemen...

 

[horner]

That'd be all nice and good if you thought Seattle would win the cup but realistically they will be out in the conf finals.

Have you watched them play .

They just beat up Dallas last game 7 - 2 I think.
They work there asses off stand up for teammates and hit..
Don't count them out of making the Stanley Cup finals.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Absolutely it comes from the top. There is no other way to explain it other than it is mandated not to cause scrums or take penalties no matter who did something to your teammates. LeBrun said as much after the montreal series....he said other GM's said our organization is just "nice" and they play that way...like gentlemen...

With all due respect to the late Jean Beliveau...gentlemen usually don't win Stanley Cups. If what you're saying is true, and the #1 goal of a team therefore isn't the Stanley Cup (because you need dirtbags in order to win), I honestly don't know how one can justify spending dollars on that team.

 

[Gabriel426]

Absolutely it comes from the top. There is no other way to explain it other than it is mandated not to cause scrums or take penalties no matter who did something to your teammates. LeBrun said as much after the montreal series....he said other GM's said our organization is just "nice" and they play that way...like gentlemen...

I think it is the players more than anything. Not saying the top won’t go, let’s not do stupid stuff, but you look at the TB series and now, the whole team is playing differently.

 

[myleafs]

That'd be all nice and good if you thought Seattle would win the cup but realistically they will be out in the conf finals.

I would take that right about now

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I think it is the players more than anything. Not saying the top won’t go, let’s not do stupid stuff, but you look at the TB series and now, the whole team is playing differently.

Who chooses the players? The management team. Shanny does not like the rough and tumble player anymore. He wants skill and IQ just like his old Detroit team that couldn't win until a rough player showed up (Shanny)....which is comical in some respects.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

No he'll be asked where he wants to go and where he'll agree to be extended like MT did last summer. You can't let him do what JT did the Islanders.

100% agree with that. But it's not to Matthews' advantage to do so.

 

[Blanka]

1 assist in his last 5 games -3

f*** You're right. I guess I'm including some of his past playoff performances where he was as good as the "other two" but made $3-4m less, but yeah. He's nowhere to be found this round.

The other thing is he doesn't seem to have as many costly turnovers as Marner; that last game in particular was especially nightmarish.

But I'll be honest. I don't like any of them but he'll probably come in cheaper I suppose. It's just a matter of whether we want to sever ties with that pervasive mindset as a whole.

I wish I knew what the hell I was talking about. This team makes me crazy.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Let’s be very clear here. No one’s cheering for failure. We’re living in failure that we have no control over. And dissecting and analyzing failure and trying to discuss alternative ways of doing things and to imagine what a failure free future might look like.

If they win and make it 3-1 it doesn’t change what they did in the first 3 games. If they come back and win Game 7, they will have done something that has virtually happened in over 100 years of this sport. So why wouldn’t they get their flowers then?

What many of these posters call "cheering for failure" I call accepting and debating what to do about reality.

 

[Egghead1999]

With all due respect to the late Jean Beliveau...gentlemen usually don't win Stanley Cups. If what you're saying is true, and the #1 goal of a team therefore isn't the Stanley Cup (because you need dirtbags in order to win), I honestly don't know how one can justify spending dollars on that team.

You are right.
A team needs dirtbags to win, and the Leafs only get the sandpapers at TDL and want the sandpapers doing heavy lifting game in and game out in the play-off, then the team's stars are a "no show" at the hard area or on the score sheet. In fact, Leafs do not pay the dirtbags to play in the playoff. The dirtbags must come within the team.

 

[seventieslord]

Look. If the Leafs become more of a better balanced, hungrier pack rat team with speed, size, youth, less of a top heavy profile, let’s say like Florida’s middle 6 or Seattle or Carolina or something, I don’t want JT hanging around and having to build a special pairing to get more juice out of him starting in 2025. By that time we will have honoured a 7 year agreement and we can part ways amicably. There’s no reason to bring him back for sentimental reasons. That’s my take but feel free to include him in your vision of a retool.

Yeah, seriously. When his contract is up and we haven't already unloaded him, there's no obligation on either side. Toronto is one of 32 teams he could sign with and he is one of hundreds of players they could sign to be an offensive winger. Not choosing this one specific player out of hundreds doesn't make us Petty or a jilted ex, nor is it an arbitrary just because decision.

This whole thing about bringing him back just reeks of blind sentimentality, and I don't recall that ever winning anybody anything.

With all due respect to the late Jean Beliveau...gentlemen usually don't win Stanley Cups. If what you're saying is true, and the #1 goal of a team therefore isn't the Stanley Cup (because you need dirtbags in order to win), I honestly don't know how one can justify spending dollars on that team.

And just because Jean beliveau was a gentleman it doesn't mean he wasn't intense as f***. He was.

 

[Trapper]

You are right.
A team needs dirtbags to win, and the Leafs only get the sandpapers at TDL and want the sandpapers doing heavy lifting game in and game out in the play-off, then the team's stars are a "no show" at the hard area or on the score sheet. In fact, Leafs do not pay the dirtbags to play in the playoff. The dirtbags must come within the team.

The sandpaper has to be in some of your core.





It’s not in ours.
I’m convinced Tavares could wear his street clothes under his uniform.
We will only half or not engage to win a battle at all costs, etc.
We don’t put pressure on players who are struggling on the other side.
We don’t bug bite away at the other team.

 

[Stephen]

What many of these posters call "cheering for failure" I call accepting and debating what to do about reality.

Exactly. No one wants to be right when there is failure. We’re mentally looking ahead to what might happen to course correct.

 

[nuck]

Look. If the Leafs become more of a better balanced, hungrier pack rat team with speed, size, youth, less of a top heavy profile, let’s say like Florida’s middle 6 or Seattle or Carolina or something, I don’t want JT hanging around and having to build a special pairing to get more juice out of him starting in 2025. By that time we will have honoured a 7 year agreement and we can part ways amicably. There’s no reason to bring him back for sentimental reasons. That’s my take but feel free to include him in your vision of a retool.

Planning the 2025 lineup today doesn't make a lot of sense as we don't know the cap or who the available UFA talent might be. But on Tavares in general I think his decline started with Keefe's arrival rather than old age. At least I would like to see him under another coach before saying style and deployment have not been a factor in his game changing. There will be a few players who's games are going to look quite different once a new coach arrives and god willing some young guys that come up in the system to stake their spots. He might have more game left than we think but not have a spot where he is needed.

 

[Trapper]

Exactly. No one wants to be right when there is failure. We’re mentally looking ahead to what might happen to course correct.

The first step is admitting you have a problem.
They don’t want to.
It’s bad luck, it’s the refs, we got goalied, the other team was lucky, it was our goalie, it was Holl, it was this…
Now can these guys actually stand up and fight to the end or will they just accept defeat with a sigh and the same tired post game responses.