The Core Has To Go

[seventieslord]

Could be but I don't think he'll chase the money.

He can't really hurt the team if he's making one or two million dollars, but hasn't the team learned that these so-called hungry veterans who've never won anything don't actually help the team achieve the ultimate goal? We're going to keep him to be our Marleau, Thornton, Spezza?

 

[ToneDog]

Could be but I don't think he'll chase the money.

July 1st is not that far away. Be best for him to ask to be moved if he does not plan to sign July 1st or soon thereafter.

 

[I am Canadian]

We wouldn’t have to pay him 16. It would probably cost 14 and he’s well worth it.

How is he well worth it? For regular season goals?

 

[WillyC]

Do we have room for these bandwagon jumpers when we win tomorrow?

Or will they double down and hope we lose.

 

[myleafs]

I think we have to keep JT. No choice.

I like Nylander. What you see is what you get. No, you're not getting someone who's going to grind the corners and put on a defensive clinic, but he's going to put up points consistently when it matters.

Matthews and Marner? Get what you can and move on whatever that means.


I'm trying to upvote your post but there's nothing in the text editor that will allow it. Maybe I was penalized last week or something. I tend to black out sometimes.

Anywho, this post^10.

1 assist in his last 5 games -3

 

[The Management]

I don't even know how to talk about this team in rational terms anymore. This is when you need this core of players to assert themselves on the game and take control.

Florida is getting contributions from guys like Verhaeage and Reinhart who just seem to have found an extra gear, and our stars who everyone would otherwise agree are objectively much better players, haven't shown up on the scoresheet when we needed it.

Really super frustrating and I wouldn't want the job of trying to figure out who stays and who goes if we lose this series (which probability suggests we will).

 

[Racer88]

Willy, Matthews and Marner will all going to have great success at some point on properly constructed teams. Any well structured team would be lucky to have them but as for all of them together as a core, the are awful.
they are lazy selfish and uncommitted to sacrifice……..no matter what they might say in the media.
The key next year for no matter who is the GM will be to decide who is worth keeping.
we already know that Tavares isn’t going anywhere so the new GM will have 1 hand tied behind his back to start.
as far as Marner and Matthews they have been in the league almost 7 years and they still disappear when it matters most.
They are not big game, big moment players

 

[myleafs]

Mathews and Marner are two different players in the regular season and playoffs.

Regular season: Mathews franchise center, Marner elite 1st line winger
Playoffs: Mathews inconsistent 1st line center, Marner average 2nd line winger

It will never change they will always get us to the playoffs and make this team great during the regular season

I would take that at this point but I dont see them as even this

 

[4thline]

So far over his contract with the Leafs John Tavares is 10th among centres in goals, 13th in points, 9th in even strength goals, 11th in even strength points.

The cap hit ended up a little out of line from that performance level due to covid crushing the cap and causing a rollback on top end salaries, but he's been an upper tier 1C for the majority of the deal. If he can still be a top 6C or W when the contract is up and is willing to be paid appropriately there is no reason not to sign him.

 

[myleafs]

There are two reasons why you keep the core.

- you treat your star players with respect because it helps your reputation as a place future star players wish to play.
- you hope that eventually they "figure it out" it sure as shit aint easy. If it were, everyone would be able to do it.

I agree, the Toronto market is ridiculous because it's the f***ing mecca of Hockey. Magnifies everything and we haven't won the cup in 56 years. So patience here is rather slim.

They should keep the core. And re evaluate once their contracts are up. But respect your core. They are your drafted talent. They WILL get you to the dance every season.


If you are not winning, you are losing. Only one team wins each season.

facts are fine.

If you want to run it back again and live through the same thing over and over again, have at it. Ive seen enough

This board is at least consistently entertaining. Yes, trade everyone, fire everyone, let's turn into Buffalo, they are much more fun to watch.

If all our players are overpaid, how are we not sending out multiple draft picks to clean house?

Actually since the Eichel trade the sabres are becoming a fun team to watch

 

[Stephen]

Do we have room for these bandwagon jumpers when we win tomorrow?

Or will they double down and hope we lose.

I’m not sure you can call it a “bandwagon” when you have to look up to see 3-1.

 

[myleafs]

Tavares needs to be gone. I know he has a nmc, and makes 11 million. I don’t care, we traded Clarkson after all. There is a way, and it has to be done.

If we get a solid offer, we need to trade Marner as well. I would not panic dump him, but for a legit offer I would do it.

If Matthews does not want to resign for a reasonable number, (below McDavid) trade him as well.

I would keep Willy. His skating and skill is so elite, and he’s the only guy who did anything, again. However, he needs to resign for a reasonable amount too.

Dump Murray and 91, and we have over 15 million in cap space. Not to mention Kerfoot, Holl, and others off the books.

I understand why people look at Willy and say he is the only guy doing anything of the core 4 because he looks good skating and can hold on to the puck but.......last 5 games....1 assist -3 and still avoids contact at all costs

 

[ACC1224]

He can't really hurt the team if he's making one or two million dollars, but hasn't the team learned that these so-called hungry veterans who've never won anything don't actually help the team achieve the ultimate goal? We're going to keep him to be our Marleau, Thornton, Spezza?

Yes, Captain and bottom of the lineup player.

July 1st is not that far away. Be best for him to ask to be moved if he does not plan to sign July 1st or soon thereafter.

Think Tavares has a couple years left.

 

[Tuna99]

My dude, you should try watching the games if you're going to tell us who never does it when it counts.

The thing is yes nobody on the Leafs is doing right now, but at least Matthews will stand in front of net and take contact - I'd take Matthews and Marner on my team all day. Nylander is just not a player I am never impressed with. I only watch mostly in ht play-offs and every year I say to myself - "There goes soft-Lander again bailing on important plays. he's soft and he's going to stay soft - Matthews completely changed and improved his game this year, Nylander still don't do playoff traffic

Honestly from the outside looking in I'm surprised Nylander is still there - he's been soft when it counts from the beginning and that won't change ever

 

[ACC1224]

So far over his contract with the Leafs John Tavares is 10th among centres in goals, 13th in points, 9th in even strength goals, 11th in even strength points.

The cap hit ended up a little out of line from that performance level due to covid crushing the cap and causing a rollback on top end salaries, but he's been an upper tier 1C for the majority of the deal. If he can still be a top 6C or W when the contract is up and is willing to be paid appropriately there is no reason not to sign him.

I don't suspect the team is as down on him as some fans are.

 

[myleafs]

What do you guys think is more likely, that a collective group of talented players consistently underperform to the point of worthlessness year in and year out while Keefe is a great coach? Or is it more likely that we are running a terrible system when it comes to playoff hockey that allows other teams to box out and contain our best players year after year because Keefe (and to a lesser extent Dubas) are good and our players just vanish?

Taht talented group of forwards have zero jam and thats the issue come playoff time when you have to fight for everything.

 

[ACC1224]

Could be but I don't think he'll chase the money.

@I am Canadian what's so funny?

 

[Stephen]

So far over his contract with the Leafs John Tavares is 10th among centres in goals, 13th in points, 9th in even strength goals, 11th in even strength points.

The cap hit ended up a little out of line from that performance level due to covid crushing the cap and causing a rollback on top end salaries, but he's been an upper tier 1C for the majority of the deal. If he can still be a top 6C or W when the contract is up and is willing to be paid appropriately there is no reason not to sign him.

The reason not to sign him at all in 2 years is his 5 on 5 quality of play is completely erratic here in 2023 and his skating is awful. We could have another legacy player a la Thornton, Spezza, Giordano, Marleau. But why not just a 20 something prime aged guy with the energy to do the job?

I just compare Tavares’ stats line to shift to shift impact vs a Sundin and it’s just night and day. They are identical on the stats line but couldn’t be farther apart in actuality.

 

[IPS]

The reason not to sign him at all in 2 years is his 5 on 5 quality of play is completely erratic here in 2023 and his skating is awful. We could have another legacy player a la Thornton, Spezza, Giordano, Marleau. But why not just a 20 something prime aged guy with the energy to do the job?

I just compare Tavares’ stats line to shift to shift impact vs a Sundin and it’s just night and day. They are identical on the stats line but couldn’t be farther apart in actuality.

Upper tier 1C is not the words I'd use to describe Tavares watching him play the last 2 years. I find this guy legitimately hard to watch most nights.

I would gladly GLADLY take a 65ish point 2-way C who's fast over Tavares at this point.

 

[myleafs]

Color me crazy but I think that if you want to attract future talent, that you don't shit on and chase out of town your current drafted talent. Kind of says a bad message. "why the f*** would I play for Toronto? If I don't win them a cup in 7 years they are going to publicly crucify me before running me out of town?"

San Jose never won anything during the Thorton, Marleau era...do you see them shitting all over those players?


I agree. But the league was fresh out of wife abusers who know the value of body shots because black eyes on your wife's face are harder to explain!

fake news much

 

[IPS]

I don't even know how to talk about this team in rational terms anymore. This is when you need this core of players to assert themselves on the game and take control.

Florida is getting contributions from guys like Verhaeage and Reinhart who just seem to have found an extra gear, and our stars who everyone would otherwise agree are objectively much better players, haven't shown up on the scoresheet when we needed it.

Really super frustrating and I wouldn't want the job of trying to figure out who stays and who goes if we lose this series (which probability suggests we will).

Yeah, welcome to Leafs playoff hockey, where our stars can't even leave 2nd gear and other team's secondary players turn into 500% more effective players and outplay our $11M stars.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Show them respect? What kind of respect have they shown the fans by not showing up at all in 3 games so far? You don’t show up only when you feel like it, you show up consistently every game. Our best players are no shows so far, but people want to show them respect? For what?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

My existence on this board may be flavouring my memory of the calls to trade Mats for sure. I remember it being a two year thing, but that might be within the existence of looney Leaf chat board'ers.

Sluggo. lol. Legend. He existed here too didn't he?

No, at least publicly I don't think we have ever seen a situation where a team lets out it that they'd like to move a guy and it doesn't happen for multiple years. Maybe thats PR control, we can't know that, but ya, usually when it becomes obvious that both sides should move on it happens.

Oh boy, that's a doozy of a memory.

On that note, remember that Ian White Homer, Big Mama was it?

I would also say remember when some posters would join in with outside trolls when bad things would happen to the Leafs (which happened often in those days) but it seems like those things are now officially sanctioned, if not encouraged, by HFBoards

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Check out this recent Youtube video for clues. Includes his strategy for a short-term 5 year deal to make him a UFA at age 26 with full NMC to allow him complete control of his future, as opposed to locking in long-term 8 years by design.

Auston Matthews RICH Southwest Lifestyle!​

Video includes his new 7,500 sq ft home just 380 miles from Arizona to downtown LA worth $3.5 mil.

Matthews' new home ..

View attachment 705308

View attachment 705309

Actions speak louder than words and it appears Matthews contract length and his resent putting down solid roots in USA doesn't scream long-term commitment to stay in Canada, particularly if the money is the same. IMO

​

Yup. I've been on the "he's leaving" train since he's been here.

 

[IPS]

Show them respect? What kind of respect have they shown the fans by not showing up at all in 3 games so far? You don’t show up only when you feel like it, you show up consistently every game. Our best players are no shows so far, but people want to show them respect? For what?

Don't be gaslit by the cheerleaders.

This franchise is unaccpetable in every sense of the word nowadays.