The case for trading Igor (at some point)

[NickyFotiu]

Would making the playoffs have helped out those teams or this organization at all? We weren't winning a Cup those years.

If anything, average to below-average Ranger teams *making* the Playoffs due to goaltending and at the expense of building a strong 5v5 roster may actually be the problem.

We didn't make the playoffs for 7 years. How did that help? We aren't getting better by dumping one of the few guys that plays well.

 

[Peltz]

The problem isn't paying a goalie. It's paying the goalie and then trying to insulate him with good defense. If you have a top goalie you should be playing as high variance as possible run and gun back and forth up the ice trading chances.

Eh… I don’t think you get good goaltending without good defense though. Goaltending is still a team position in a way. Letting your goalie see shots and keeping guys to the outside is key.

You gotta play well in every zone. Balance is where it’s at.

I really can’t stand all the folks saying to get rid of Igor though. The guy is as elite as they come. To say goalies can cool off and then ignore the Panarin shaped elephant in the room….

Any position can be voodoo. Any position in any zone.

But guys like Igor and Vasilevsky come along so rarely you gotta extend them and work around it. You all are just so spooked about what happened with Hank and Price. But the same thing can happen with McDavid and Drai too who can play their entire careers with no cup.

That doesn’t mean you don’t try to build a winner around these types of players. We are just so spoiled by good goaltenders without a cup to show for it that we are shooting from the hip and don’t know where to aim.

Over the past week I’ve heard Gallant is to blame. Then Drury. Then Glen Sather. Then Dolan. Then Gorton. Than the kids. And of course, Panarin.

And all of these have merit. Sure. But at the same time, this fanbase is starting to turn in on itself and point the finger at the wrong causes here.

In no way shape or form should Igor be under the gun here. And in no universe is goalie not the most important position in the game.

This team should be built around its two most elite players: Shesty and Fox.

 

[Luger]

I’d say Miller is maybe in the conversation of “big time” player that you keep if you consider a top 4 defensemen “big time”.

He has a bad end of the year but I think he bounces back to elite form next season. The suspension messed him up.

I agree, keep Miller. Also other young guys like the Kid Line and Schneider, unless we get offers for superior value.

But anybody 29+ should be traded for youth. Rebuild fully the right way for once. Retooling on the fly is why we got 1 Cup in 83 years.

 

[Synergy27]

[QUOTE="Peltz, post: 190242475, member:
But guys like Igor and Vasilevsky come along so rarely you gotta extend them and work around it. You all are just so spooked about what happened with Hank and Price. But the same thing can happen with McDavid and Drai too who can play their entire careers with no cup.
[/QUOTE]

Vasilevski’s cap hit was $3.5M for the first Cup. His high dollar contract kicked in the next year when they won the second, but that was the season that they placed Kucherov on IR and effectively played with a $98M cap.

They got bounced in round one this year because of all of the sacrifices they have had to make throughout their lineup. Also, Vasi had a 3.56GAA and a 0.875SV%.

The Lightning are not going to win another Cup while paying Vasi what he has earned and deserves. It’s a catch 22 with these guys. They deserve it. I want them on my team. You can’t win with that much cap space allocated there. Unless you cheat, which you kinda can’t do anymore.

 

[bobbop]

There is no case. When you hit your knees at night you should thank God that the Rangers have a Hall of Fame calibre goaltender with a decade of outstanding service in front of him.

 

[NCRanger]

The argument in favor of this is that no team outside of Tampa with Vasilevskiy has won the Cup with a so-called “elite” goaltender since the 2004-05 lockout.

 

[jniklast]

The argument in favor of this is that no team outside of Tampa with Vasilevskiy has won the Cup with a so-called “elite” goaltender since the 2004-05 lockout.

I'd say the Bruins with Thomas do also qualify for that.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

In the cap era it is not smart for your goalie to be one of your highest paid players. On the surface your idea seems crazy but its really not. Benny Allaire consistently elevates every goalie he works with. Even if some cap space could be created by moving one of the vets, its definitely something to consider.

 

[huerter]

Scoring matters, but actual scorers do not.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

It’s definitely the Rangers offseason if we are having a thread about trading Igor.

We did so great with Dunham, Weekes, Markkanen and LaBarbera in the 2000s. Who needs elite goalies like Lundqvist and Igor.

Top goaltending can win cups, and you want the top goalies who give you the best chance of that. Not "oh lets get any random goalie because they can go on a hot streak because that nobody from the Canes did in 15 years ago" (Now i wait for someone to say the Avs did it last season...yea the Avs with one of the most powerhouse teams in the last 2 decades? Yea when we get a team like that we can talk about trading Igor).

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The Rangers will trade Igor, finally get somewhere with the roster and then have major goaltending issues preventing them from going all the way.

Hockey's different here

If you have an all-world elite Vezina goaltender, best bet would be to hold onto him

 

[SeanAveryTheGreatOne]

I’d rather pay a goalie who posts a 2.55-2.75 GAA 6M per year than pay a goalie 10M to have a 2.25 GAA. It just doesn’t make sense.

Why? So we can pay the next Panarin 16m instead of 12m?

I'm not being hyperbolical. You know that's the only thing this organization would do with the cap space.

I want them to resign Igor so they can't spend that money elsewhere.

 

[Peltz]

The Rangers will trade Igor, finally get somewhere with the roster and then have major goaltending issues preventing them from going all the way.

Hockey's different here

If you have an all-world elite Vezina goaltender, best bet would be to hold onto him

You'd think it would be this simple... and that's because it is. All of the cap to spend on forwards really means nothing when an 11 million dollar LW isn't scoring anyway.

Hang onto your playoff performers at all costs and get rid of the rest. Igor, undoubtedly is one of those guys who performs in the spring and will be for many years. It's really that simple.

Cap space can be used to purchase bad players and losing a guaranteed good player to have more space to take risks on unproven guys the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

This lineup didn't fail because they didn't allocate enough cap space to purchase high profile forwards. An expensive forward core guarantees you nothing. And modeling our success after the Avalanche is the most laughable thing I've ever heard. We aren't going become them by letting go of Igor.

 

[Savant]

Igor should be traded but y’all aren’t ready for that conversation yet. Rangers cannot pay his next contract and with other goalies posies to be on the market, this would be the best time to drop a Nuke.

Rangers created this problem with the cap and they have very few ways to solve it. This is one of them. It’s unfortunate but you don’t need an elite goalie to win a cup.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Igor should be traded but y’all aren’t ready for that conversation yet. Rangers cannot pay his next contract and with other goalies posies to be on the market, this would be the best time to drop a Nuke.

Rangers created this problem with the cap and they have very few ways to solve it. This is one of them. It’s unfortunate but you don’t need an elite goalie to win a cup.

I think the issue has more to do with goalie value being absolutely terrible on the trade market, and the Rangers realistically getting nowhere near enough in return for one of the best overall players in the game simply because he's a goalie and not a skater.

 

[Hire Sather]

I think the issue has more to do with goalie value being absolutely terrible on the trade market, and the Rangers realistically getting nowhere near enough in return for one of the best overall players in the game simply because he's a goalie and not a skater.

Which would tell you how much the league values an elite goalie versus a plug in guy like Vanacek.

Devils gave up what for him? 2nd? 3rd? Really curious what the best offer we'd get right now for Igor. 2 more years at 5.6?

 

[17futurecap]

They will try and win with him for two more years, and then it will probably be demolition time to the roster, especially if McDavid doesn’t commit to Edmonton.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

The Rangers will trade Igor, finally get somewhere with the roster and then have major goaltending issues preventing them from going all the way.

Hockey's different here

If you have an all-world elite Vezina goaltender, best bet would be to hold onto him

I think there’s a better chance of the Rangers finding another elite goaltender than there is of them transforming the roster so much they become elite 5v5 (but lack a goalie, at that point).

I have all the confidence in the world the organization can figure out the goalie position again. And I have zero confidence they can figure out a way to ice a team that’s dominant 5v5.

 

[Savant]

I think the issue has more to do with goalie value being absolutely terrible on the trade market, and the Rangers realistically getting nowhere near enough in return for one of the best overall players in the game simply because he's a goalie and not a skater.

The goalie market isn’t always great but Igor would also be the best goalie on the block in some time; and he’d be getting acquired with term. Would need to be a hockey trade that makes sense obviously but you can use him to fix the cap and refill some assets. Rangers don’t have a ton else that is desirable. No one is tripping over themselves to get Goodrow.

 

[NickyFotiu]

There are few very positive needle movers. 15% of the NHL imo.
There are guys that do not move the needle very much good or bad. 70% imo.
There are few very negative needle movers. 15% of the NHL imo

Igor is a positive needle mover.

One of the very few that we have so we will keep him.

Like most teams we have plenty of the middle group.

 

[SML2]

Igor was a 4th round pick. Henrik was a 7th. Here's what I do.
Ride his contract out. If we haven't won it all by the last season, you offer him a team friendly deal for below market value with the understanding that this team will never win anything if he's making 10+. If he says no, you retain half and sell him as a rental to the highest bidder. While we are waiting for that to happen, grab a few goalies in the later rounds, put them in the crock pot on low for a few years and see what you get.
Goalies are tough because the kids on the great teams don't get tested enough. They are rarely losing and don't get to face adversity. You need a kid who's kind of on a bad team but personally plays well. He will have the compete level, the mental toughness and resilience to handle playing in this league. Because their stats won't be great because they aren't on a great team, that's the kind of guy you can find in rounds 4-7.

As far as Igor, if he doesn't take the team friendly deal,then he's more about the money than winning. That means you blow this thing up anyway.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

There are few very positive needle movers. 15% of the NHL imo.
There are guys that do not move the needle very much good or bad. 70% imo.
There are few very negative needle movers. 15% of the NHL imo

Igor is a positive needle mover.

One of the very few that we have so we will keep him.

Like most teams we have plenty of the middle group.

You win Stanley Cups with middling goaltenders. Not middling skaters.

We need to flip the script there. Granted, not right now. But before Igor’s next contract.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You win Stanley Cups with middling goaltenders. Not middling skaters.

We need to flip the script there. Granted, not right now. But before Igor’s next contract.

You win cups with great teams who hit their strides at the right time, have some luck and few injuries. Goalies can play a big role on those teams. We played in the cup in 2014. Quick did not luck average to me. Vasilinky won the Conn Smythe. Nothing average about him. So did Tim Thomas. So did Patrick Roy. Nothing average about these guys that were dominant goalies in their cup years.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This thread is a joke right? The only player that showed up in the playoffs. Panarin taking up the bulk of the cap and doing nothing is the issue. If Garand becomes a star goalie then we can move on from him but intil then its silly

 

[mike14]

It’s definitely the Rangers offseason if we are having a thread about trading Igor.

We did so great with Dunham, Weekes, Markkanen and LaBarbera in the 2000s. Who needs elite goalies like Lundqvist and Igor.

Top goaltending can win cups, and you want the top goalies who give you the best chance of that. Not "oh lets get any random goalie because they can go on a hot streak because that nobody from the Canes did in 15 years ago" (Now i wait for someone to say the Avs did it last season...yea the Avs with one of the most powerhouse teams in the last 2 decades? Yea when we get a team like that we can talk about trading Igor).

Counter point would be that we won the same number of cups with them as we did with Lundqvist and Shesty (so far)...

I think around 8-8.5% of the cap is the absolute max for an elite goalie. So come 24-25 you get a feelf for what the cap is doing and talk to Shesty about what he wants. If it's around that % you make the deal, if he wants something around 10% and doesn't look like budging you roll the dice and move on