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The case for trading Igor (at some point)

irishlaxburger2 said:
Against a team who has also played three different goaltenders this playoffs.

Goaltending is not why the Canes are where they are, or why the Devils are in their position.

Not to mention, those same Devils beat us with that same goaltending, while we had Igor.
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Yes when the Devils goalies played well they won. When the Devils goalies played poorly they lost. That is the reason teams want goalies that play well the most often. Nobody goes looking for a goalie they can only count on 50% of the time.
 
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bern has been out in front on this

OP is wrong to infer we should just jettison an elite player b'c we are sick of the results, which are not his fault.

However, it is proper for all of us to ask if we get more functional value by selling Shesty now for top top top $$$$$.

We have backed ourselves in a corner to some extent due to Drury etc not listening to bern [multiple instances] and then wasting assets, either in rental or by ruining Kravtsov, a 9OA].

We have Garand
We have Halak + Talbot is a ufa
both will play for min $$ + work well w/Allaire

Shesty + LaF + Lindgren
for
Sanderson + Pinto + Grieg

to offset loss of youth to Sens, we'd have to give Sykora + BMB for future picks in a separate deal.

______________
Other way to go big is
Shesty + for Byfield +

big gamble but it could totally work
 
NickyFotiu said:
Yes when the Devils goalies played well they won. When the Devils goalies played poorly they lost. That is the reason teams want goalies that play well the most often. Nobody goes looking for a goalie they can only count on 50% of the time.
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Schmid couldn’t control a rebound in at least two of the wins against us. His stats simply looked good because he faced an extremely small amount of high and medium danger chances. The below isn’t winning via goaltending. It’s winning via dominant 5v5 play…

IMG_5475.jpeg
 
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irishlaxburger2 said:
Schmid couldn’t control a rebound in at least two of the wins against us. His stats simply looked good because he faced an extremely small amount of high and medium danger chances. The below isn’t winning via goaltending. It’s winning via dominant 5v5 play…

View attachment 706410
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Im not in to whatever chart you posted. NJ was better than us but thankfully we had a great goalie keep us in almost every game.
 
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I think the simplest fact is this: Igor is a superstar. Those are irreplaceably rare, regardless of if the position of the superstar is the lame goalie (that everyone seems to think is meaningless for the Cup now) or scintillating center. Unless a Hughes or the like is coming the other way as a result of it, trading him is folly.

Doing so just to save money is especially foolish. Again, aside from the rare case of a stud falling into our organization's lap (a late-round goalie like Igor or Hank becoming a Vezina winner or a guy so good that he can choose whom he plays for happens to choose us like Fox), we have proven time and time again that we completely fumble when throwing big paydays at players.

Let's spend that money on a player who has proven he gets us some return, IMO.


irishlaxburger2 said:
Schmid couldn’t control a rebound in at least two of the wins against us. His stats simply looked good because he faced an extremely small amount of high and medium danger chances. The below isn’t winning via goaltending. It’s winning via dominant 5v5 play…

View attachment 706410
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Wish I could like this post. Thank you, man. The amount of people that must have either not watched the games or been drunk off their asses during them that still think Schmid played well against us is mind-boggling. The Debs could have legitimately won game 7 with an empty net. No joke.
 
Not really interested in trading Igor, but let's see where he and Garand are in 2 years. They can make a decision then. When youre the NY Rangers with a Vezina goalie, "asset management" shouldn't be the motivating factor in how they proceed in goal.
 
McRanger92 said:
Not really interested in trading Igor, but let's see where he and Garand are in 2 years. They can make a decision then. When youre the NY Rangers with a Vezina goalie, "asset management" shouldn't be the motivating factor in how they proceed in goal.
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This is the same mistake they made w/Buch
Knew they were not competing so even mo reason to move him while he had term and was cheap.
Instead of nailing a 1st in the 10-12 OA area from Oil,
they held on to him until the last second when all he had was rfa rights.
Then what did we get?
Way less.

If Shesty can be used not for an overpayment, but to really change our trajectory and pay for past mistakes, it should be considered.
And we should be grateful we have Garand in the mix now, not hoping we have to hope to get a Garand.
Either Garand is ready now, or we rely on Halak + Talbot as cheap stopgaps.

Shesty for Sanderson is a major wince for both sides, but fully solves signif needs for both
 
He's UFA after 24/25. I think you have to see where things stand next year at this time.

I don't think our roster has much flexibility. Our core is set and not easily moveable. After next year, this roster will have had 3 cracks at it. If we can't show a big improvement, then you have to seriously entertain the idea of trading Shesterkin and getting value while you can.
 
Vito Andolini said:
He's UFA after 24/25. I think you have to see where things stand next year at this time.

I don't think our roster has much flexibility. Our core is set and not easily moveable. After next year, this roster will have had 3 cracks at it. If we can't show a big improvement, then you have to seriously entertain the idea of trading Shesterkin and getting value while you can.
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prob there is if we wait, we get a lot less than moving now.

If there is a primo package to be had now, DO IT NOW
If no primo package, hold our cards for the moment
 
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The Crypto Guy said:
What would be a primo package?
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I am flexible -- believe it or not as usual -- to entertaining ideas.
If you want to gamble, something around Byfield and a high RD prospect

But I'd be safer and do something w/principals Shesty and Sanderson.

If we are adding Sandy, and looking to shed cap, and they want something to help mitigate loss of Sandy, we can same time send Lindy for something acceptable, say, Pinto?

We have Robertson + Scanlin as elcs who must be developed to join an extended KAM to stay ahead of cap
 
If someone has time, it would be cool to see a chart or table showing what percentage of the cap the SC winner’s goalie has occupied since the cap was instituted.

I mentioned this earlier, but Vasilevsky wasn’t getting paid during their first Cup run, and the Bolts seriously manipulated the cap for their second. It’s been downhill from there for them with that cap hit on their books.

This thread isn’t about Igor. He’s basically the only player that everyone here can agree is consistently elite and who shows up when it matters. This thread is about conceptual roster construction and the growing set of data that indicates that elite goalies, with elite paychecks, aren’t an ingredient on a Cup winning team.
 
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Another dominte offensive team goes down the shitter due to having average goaltending. Poor McDavid, another year wasted.

But yes, lets trade our elite goalie because apparently average goalies always go on big hot streaks in the playoffs…womp.
 
After seeing how Bobrovsky win that game for Florida last night, we still peddling this bs about trading Igor someday?
 
Peltz said:
After seeing how Bobrovsky win that game for Florida last night, we still peddling this bs about trading Igor someday?
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And today. No wonder this thread is dead. Even if Florida doesn't win the Cup, they've achieved massive success on the back of a Vezina goalie for a 92-point team that was supposed to get swept by the winningest team in history in round 1.
 
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SeanAveryTheGreatOne said:
And today. No wonder this thread is dead. Even if Florida doesn't win the Cup, they've achieved massive success on the back of a Vezina goalie for a 92-point team that was supposed to get swept by the winningest team in history in round 1.
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And he is highly compensated for his play as well. And, quite frankly, Bobrovsky ain't even close to as good as Igor.

"Trade Igor" people are drunk.
 
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Peeps are forgetting.
If you have enough depth roster wide, bordering surplus, then you can entertain to trade at all or not, and if you're gonna replace the starter with presumably younger high end talent.

But if like Rs, you did not listen to bern for past several years, and there is a cumulative hit from MULTIPLE instances about not maximizing our assets, including by dealing youth for vets [or favoring vets, cannibalizing our youth], then you get what we got now.

The only way to optimize your chances is to draft well, and develop.

We need to think about if we can get high enuf end return then, and only then, yes, Shesty, Lindy and LaF shoud all be on the table.

Shesty + for Sanderson +

or

Shesty + for Byfield + Grans or other high RD

we roll w/Garand as soon as he's ready, and if nec, we roll w/Halak + Talbot etc as stopgaps

Stop avoiding growing pains, stop denying youth.
DO IT
 
Adin Hill winning the Stanley Cup this year

Proving, yet again, that goaltending matters way less than the skaters dressed in front of them

All you need is someone above average and not detrimental to your salary cap
 
If Garand has a good year in Hartford next season, you trade igor after next year.
 
As long as Allaire is in the organization, it’s going to be easier to find Stanley Cup winning goaltending than it is putting together a Stanley Cup winning roster.

For that reason, you need to allocate your salary cap accordingly.
 
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