The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[thethirdhockeyman91]

Absolutely not. The leafs should look to the Washington capitals as a good example. After years of underperforming in the playoffs, the capitals moved on from two core pieces Alex Semin and Mike Green. They replicated those guys with new players like Oshie, etc and ended up finally winning in 2018. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Off topic

Why do we not have any defenseman that can rip the puck from the point.
Seems other teams have one dman that can.
Do our dman practice taking snapshots.

It all started with Babcock. He said taking slap shots was inefficient and dangerous because a blocked shot could go the other way for a breakaway. So we took a 1/400 scenario and made it seem like the other 399 times we shoot it hard and cause chaos to be useless....The fact that Muzzin came in ripping them for about 2 weeks and then stopped shows you all you need to know. They prefer floaters from the point in case there is a Vaselivsky type goalie having a bad series ....that happens all the time I hear.

 

[egd27]

So if you can't understand that 7 years ago they were rookies and you hate this team, stop f***ing watching them and tormenting us with your issues

Do you understand that 7 years ago the VGK didn't even exist ?

 

[mjd1001]

Heres the top 10 and it's extremely shocking to see Mittlestadt there

Edit - This isnt per 60 like original tweet

View attachment 718042

yes it is surprising, and he may not be a great player ever, but then again maybe he might. Some players who are stars do it right away, others take a few years.

I Remember a year or two after he was drafted, going into his first year with Buffalo there was talk around the NHL was that he was neck and neck with Elias Petterson for Breakout young player or possibly in contention for Rookie of the year. That didn't happen and obviously Petterersson has done a lot more, but Mittelstadt could be one of those later bloomers and this could be the first sign of it.

 

[Racer88]

Yup


You brought up stone

I’m actually surprised that you are willing to lose for another 6 years. Is it because you want to defend the core or are you just ok with having a decent regular season with no regard for the post season

 

[Boxscore]

Absolutely not. The leafs should look to the Washington capitals as a good example. After years of underperforming in the playoffs, the capitals moved on from two core pieces Alex Semin and Mike Green. They replicated those guys with new players like Oshie, etc and ended up finally winning in 2018. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

The bolded is extremely valid. But methinks there's more at play with the Leafs than just winning a Cup. They want to be a draw and they want to do it the way they want. The fact that Shanahan was legit ready to extend Dubas the night the Leafs got bounced tells me the organization is bullish, egotistical, stubborn, and have a severe blind spot. It starts with the leadership, including Shanahan, who cannot concede or admit failure.

 

[Fogelhund]

No.

Thank you for providing further insight into your position. It’s telling.

 

[koyvoo]

Vegas actually did get rid one proven career playoff loser in Pacioretty, a mainstay in their top six the past four seasons, another guy who clearly has a career trend of producing in the playoff environment far less than he does in regular session games. Literally just dumped him.

 

[Gabriel426]

The bolded is extremely valid. But methinks there's more at play with the Leafs than just winning a Cup. They want to be a draw and they want to do it the way they want. The fact that Shanahan was legit ready to extend Dubas the night the Leafs got bounced tells me the organization is bullish, egotistical, stubborn, and have a severe blind spot. It starts with the leadership, including Shanahan, who cannot concede or admit failure.

There is a couple of things at play here.
1. If Dubas is willing to trade the core, which he seems to be open to at the presser when he talked about the Tkachuk trade, then he deserves to be brought back
2. Did Shanny really want to extend Dubas or was it the Board?
3. Lets say Shanny wanted to extend Dubas in order to block Treliving from coming in b/c he knows Treliving is friends with the Board and Larry.
4. Looking at it now, it seems like the players knew Dubas won't be back.

I am not saying you are wrong but I think we can find any excuses whenever a team is not winning. But to me, the most obvious thing is your top 3 highest paying forwards combed for 1 goal in 5 games while playing 95% of PP time and almost all Ozone starts.

 

[koyvoo]

Absolutely not. The leafs should look to the Washington capitals as a good example. After years of underperforming in the playoffs, the capitals moved on from two core pieces Alex Semin and Mike Green. They replicated those guys with new players like Oshie, etc and ended up finally winning in 2018. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Great example of another two guys who definitely proved it a career trend to become far lesser versions of themselves in the playoff environment compared to what they would bring you in regular season games.

 

[arso40]

There is a couple of things at play here.
1. If Dubas is willing to trade the core, which he seems to be open to at the presser when he talked about the Tkachuk trade, then he deserves to be brought back
2. Did Shanny really want to extend Dubas or was it the Board?
3. Lets say Shanny wanted to extend Dubas in order to block Treliving from coming in b/c he knows Treliving is friends with the Board and Larry.
4. Looking at it now, it seems like the players knew Dubas won't be back.

I am not saying you are wrong but I think we can find any excuses whenever a team is not winning. But to me, the most obvious thing is your top 3 highest paying forwards combed for 1 goal in 5 games while playing 95% of PP time and almost all Ozone starts.

Why Willy was getting put on the second pp2 is beyond me another reason keefe needs to go I’ll admit he was a breathe of fresh air after babs but now he’s just blatantly not ready for this job

 

[Boxscore]

There is a couple of things at play here.
1. If Dubas is willing to trade the core, which he seems to be open to at the presser when he talked about the Tkachuk trade, then he deserves to be brought back
2. Did Shanny really want to extend Dubas or was it the Board?
3. Lets say Shanny wanted to extend Dubas in order to block Treliving from coming in b/c he knows Treliving is friends with the Board and Larry.
4. Looking at it now, it seems like the players knew Dubas won't be back.

I am not saying you are wrong but I think we can find any excuses whenever a team is not winning. But to me, the most obvious thing is your top 3 highest paying forwards combed for 1 goal in 5 games while playing 95% of PP time and almost all Ozone starts.

Honestly, I can't help but agree with everything you wrote. Winning solves a lot of problems. Losing, and appearing to not be phased in the least by it, makes everything significantly worse. Regardless of the politics at play, one thing is certain -- from the board, to senior leadership, down to the coaching staff and players -- every one of them has come up short then punted when it's time to answer. Rinse, repeat.

 

[Gabriel426]

Why Willy was getting put on the second pp2 is beyond me another reason keefe needs to go I’ll admit he was a breathe of fresh air after babs but now he’s just blatantly not ready for this job

I can see why they want to put ROR there and need to put JT there to justify his 11mil.
Which is quite sad bc JT and ROR most effective spot on the PP is the same.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Run it back is Shanahan's solution for everything.

Core four can't score?
Run it back.
Coach can't win in the playoffs?
Run it back.
Goaltending is questionable?
Run it back.

They don't make changes. They see what hasn't worked for years. Then insist on doing more of the same.

Recycling the same failed plan over and over.

Only to go out early every playoffs. Then has the nerve to tell us he still believes in this core. That they "are going to get this done".

Good Lord.

Can Shanahan be any more in denial?

I'm sorry, but I don't see any situation where this core suddenly flips a switch and "gets" it. Shanahan had the opportunity after firing Dubas to accept this philosophy as flawed. Instead he dug in his heels and insists on running it back.

They've butchered things so badly it's mind boggling.

Shanahan keeps playing the same game, with the same players, hoping for a different result. They keep losing instead. Some fans are content with it all.

The rest of us want to try playing a different game with someone else.

 

[mikeyz]

Thank you for providing further insight into your position. It’s telling.

He said no because it’s true. He shouldn’t ave to elaborate any further.

Do you believe that they’ve gotten better? Because I don’t think so. Especially in the playoffs. In fact, you can make an argument they have gotten worse. Especially looking at that Panthers series.

 

[Notsince67]

As part of a group, to show how they are a deep team. He isn’t a superstar level player, but he’s able to be as effective as other players like Marner who are superstars

You seem to be fixated on him, missing the point that he’s part of an 8 man core

Lot...the irony

Do you understand that 7 years ago the VGK didn't even exist ?

And each of those players were veterans from other teams like Stone who only saw the playoffs twice

 

[Notsince67]

I’m actually surprised that you are willing to lose for another 6 years. Is it because you want to defend the core or are you just ok with having a decent regular season with no regard for the post season

I don't accept the premise. Building out the team and proper coaching improves the team. This isn't a chemical reaction ffs. It's a sports team.

 

[Racer88]

I don't accept the premise. Building out the team and proper coaching improves the team. This isn't a chemical reaction ffs. It's a sports team.

I agree it’s a process but at some point you have to move the process along especially when it’s not working. 7 years with one first round win.

 

[rumman]

Do you understand that 7 years ago the VGK didn't even exist ?

perspective...........

 

[darrylsittler27]

The case for keeping the top 4. There isnt one. It means Shanhan is an idiot. This team got skyjacked by a kid who never played hockey for 5 years. One round in 5 years and all that money..Pejorative Slured.

 

[Trapper]

You could probably trade everyone (except Matthews/Rielly/Woll) and rebuild a team faster than re-signing the same core to more money and trying to find bargain bins to make up for all the shortcomings.

 

[rumman]

I don't accept the premise. Building out the team and proper coaching improves the team. This isn't a chemical reaction ffs. It's a sports team.

I think it’s pretty much proven that surrounding this core with whatever scrubs will fit under the cap hasn’t worked, won’t work, will never work. Or is 5 years to short a window to prove this theory will eventually work?

 

[myleafs]

Run it back is Shanahan's solution for everything.

Core four can't score?
Run it back.
Coach can't win in the playoffs?
Run it back.
Goaltending is questionable?
Run it back.

They don't make changes. They see what hasn't worked for years. Then insist on doing more of the same.

Recycling the same failed plan over and over.

Only to go out early every playoffs. Then has the nerve to tell us he still believes in this core. That they "are going to get this done".

Good Lord.

Can Shanahan be any more in denial?

I'm sorry, but I don't see any situation where this core suddenly flips a switch and "gets" it. Shanahan had the opportunity after firing Dubas to accept this philosophy as flawed. Instead he dug in his heels and insists on running it back.

They've butchered things so badly it's mind boggling.

Shanahan keeps playing the same game, with the same players, hoping for a different result. They keep losing instead. Some fans are content with it all.

The rest of us want to try playing a different game with someone else.

So if people think its all Shanny who has been pulling the strings all along and pretty much everyone has said the trade deadline was really good for the leafs this year then does Shanny get the credit for that or is he just responsible for the failures? And if he gets the credit then those same people who said Dubas was finally figuring it out really means that Shanny is finally figuring it out?

 

[GoonieFace]

So if people think its all Shanny who has been pulling the strings all along and pretty much everyone has said the trade deadline was really good for the leafs this year then does Shanny get the credit for that or is he just responsible for the failures? And if he gets the credit then those same people who said Dubas was finally figuring it out really means that Shanny is finally figuring it out?

Or is the reason we never see Shanahan and Dubas in the same room, is that they morphed together to create one enormous turd

 

[mikeyz]

I’m actually surprised that you are willing to lose for another 6 years. Is it because you want to defend the core or are you just ok with having a decent regular season with no regard for the post season

I think it's his subconscious working as a defense mechanism to cope with the losing just in case Shanahan decides to run this back for another 6 years.