The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

There's been posters here claiming Boston and TB would take a step back for years.

Tampa has taken a step back 3 straight cup finals, and then losing in round 1 that's a step back anyway you look at it.

 

[hockeywiz542]

New GM Brad Treliving is making it easy for Morgan Rielly and the Leafs to move on from Kyle Dubas

“We’re all big fans, extremely supportive of him,” Rielly said of Treliving, who has been a daily mainstay at workouts involving Leafs and Marlies.

www.thestar.com

Rielly has also been in touch with both Auston Matthews and William Nylander, the two core players who are subjects of the most off-season speculation. Both are eligible to sign extensions on July 1 and it’s believed Treliving is working on that in order to keep the core together. If Treliving can’t get a commitment from them beyond the 2024-25 season he may have to consider trading one or the other. Both players have expressed a desire to remain in Toronto, and Rielly says nothing has changed in their positions.

“My conversations with them have always been really positive and they’ve always expressed a desire to be here,” said Rielly. “All I know is that they’ve always loved playing here, they’ve always enjoyed Toronto, They’ve always tried to make the most of it. They realize the opportunity. They’re two bright individuals that obviously we want on our team for a long time.”

The big question surrounding the team is whether the core should even be brought back, because seven playoff appearances over seven years have ended in disappointment. Rielly, though, continues to believe in the group.

“I come at it from an angle that all the people that have whatever opinion are allowed to have that opinion. And there’s always going to be two schools of thought on just about everything,” said Rielly. “We’re not going to give up. We’re not going to stop trying. There’s no guarantee that it’s going to get done. But the belief is there and the support from our staff and from each other will always be there. We’re not going to go down without a fight."

“I obviously want everybody to come back and just keep swinging. There’s no guarantees that you’re going to do it every year. You have to understand how hard it is. After you take losses, you do you gain the appreciation for the teams that are able to do it. And so for us, I think it’s an opportunity to realize the opportunity and keep building, keep pushing, and just do everything you can to break through.”

 

[hockeywiz542]

McKenzie on whether Blackhawks might insulate Bedard, why Michkov might be worth the risk for lottery team, and logic behind Leafs potentially keeping core-four - TSN.ca

TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie joins OverDrive to look ahead to the upcoming NHL Draft. McKenzie shares his thoughts on whether he expects the Blackhawks to be competitive next season after they select Connor Bedard first overall next week, why Matvei Michkov might be worth the risk for teams drafting in the lottery next week, why the Leafs’ reportedly aiming bring back the core-four isn’t as illogical as some would have you believe, and more.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It's not really that hard to understand.

If by "core four" they mean the forwards (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares) then it's simple: Matthews is one of the best centres in the league and our only good one; Marner is overpaid so you can't get value for him; Nylander is tradable, but easily the best value contract, so you shouldn't; and Tavares can't be.

If by "core four" they mean the best (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly), then just change the last to read "our best and generally only offensive D".

 

[leafsfan5]

New GM Brad Treliving is making it easy for Morgan Rielly and the Leafs to move on from Kyle Dubas

“We’re all big fans, extremely supportive of him,” Rielly said of Treliving, who has been a daily mainstay at workouts involving Leafs and Marlies.

www.thestar.com

Rielly has also been in touch with both Auston Matthews and William Nylander, the two core players who are subjects of the most off-season speculation. Both are eligible to sign extensions on July 1 and it’s believed Treliving is working on that in order to keep the core together. If Treliving can’t get a commitment from them beyond the 2024-25 season he may have to consider trading one or the other. Both players have expressed a desire to remain in Toronto, and Rielly says nothing has changed in their positions.

“My conversations with them have always been really positive and they’ve always expressed a desire to be here,” said Rielly. “All I know is that they’ve always loved playing here, they’ve always enjoyed Toronto, They’ve always tried to make the most of it. They realize the opportunity. They’re two bright individuals that obviously we want on our team for a long time.”

The big question surrounding the team is whether the core should even be brought back, because seven playoff appearances over seven years have ended in disappointment. Rielly, though, continues to believe in the group.

“I come at it from an angle that all the people that have whatever opinion are allowed to have that opinion. And there’s always going to be two schools of thought on just about everything,” said Rielly. “We’re not going to give up. We’re not going to stop trying. There’s no guarantee that it’s going to get done. But the belief is there and the support from our staff and from each other will always be there. We’re not going to go down without a fight."

“I obviously want everybody to come back and just keep swinging. There’s no guarantees that you’re going to do it every year. You have to understand how hard it is. After you take losses, you do you gain the appreciation for the teams that are able to do it. And so for us, I think it’s an opportunity to realize the opportunity and keep building, keep pushing, and just do everything you can to break through.”

Rielly is the captain of this team

 

[Gabriel426]

It's not really that hard to understand.

If by "core four" they mean the forwards (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares) then it's simple: Matthews is one of the best centres in the league and our only good one; Marner is overpaid so you can't get value for him; Nylander is tradable, but easily the best value contract, so you shouldn't; and Tavares can't be.

If by "core four" they mean the best (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly), then just change the last to read "our best and generally only offensive D".

In a way, it is not a matter of wanting to keep the core but more we are stuck with the core

New GM Brad Treliving is making it easy for Morgan Rielly and the Leafs to move on from Kyle Dubas

“We’re all big fans, extremely supportive of him,” Rielly said of Treliving, who has been a daily mainstay at workouts involving Leafs and Marlies.

www.thestar.com

Rielly has also been in touch with both Auston Matthews and William Nylander, the two core players who are subjects of the most off-season speculation. Both are eligible to sign extensions on July 1 and it’s believed Treliving is working on that in order to keep the core together. If Treliving can’t get a commitment from them beyond the 2024-25 season he may have to consider trading one or the other. Both players have expressed a desire to remain in Toronto, and Rielly says nothing has changed in their positions.

“My conversations with them have always been really positive and they’ve always expressed a desire to be here,” said Rielly. “All I know is that they’ve always loved playing here, they’ve always enjoyed Toronto, They’ve always tried to make the most of it. They realize the opportunity. They’re two bright individuals that obviously we want on our team for a long time.”

The big question surrounding the team is whether the core should even be brought back, because seven playoff appearances over seven years have ended in disappointment. Rielly, though, continues to believe in the group.

“I come at it from an angle that all the people that have whatever opinion are allowed to have that opinion. And there’s always going to be two schools of thought on just about everything,” said Rielly. “We’re not going to give up. We’re not going to stop trying. There’s no guarantee that it’s going to get done. But the belief is there and the support from our staff and from each other will always be there. We’re not going to go down without a fight."

“I obviously want everybody to come back and just keep swinging. There’s no guarantees that you’re going to do it every year. You have to understand how hard it is. After you take losses, you do you gain the appreciation for the teams that are able to do it. And so for us, I think it’s an opportunity to realize the opportunity and keep building, keep pushing, and just do everything you can to break through.”

Not dissing Reilly but they did went down without a fight against the Panthers. Also, keep doing the same thing and hoping to get a result is insanity.

 

[Sypher04]

I garauntee if we moved Marner there would be a long long lineup of teams prepared to give us very good value, even despite his big contract

That said, I think we’d be crazy to trade him, but we need him to work on his physical strength

 

[AustonMarner]

I read on article @ PPP today which seemingly insinuated that people who "cry" about wanting Tavares to be traded or believing Tavares is the reason the Leafs haven't had success in the playoffs are wrong because they don't understand the following analytics eg: Tavares' corsi, offence etc
To me, it came across as kind'a sad and pathetic really...

One question for everyone here reading...
What's more important to a scout?

Being able to critically watch and re-watch actual hockey games OR being able to understand and analyze the number's that are gathered from the same hockey games?

Look at it like this, imagine a Leafs scout for example, being given all the analytics information in the world but not letting them watch any hockey games whatsoever, how lost would they be at the end of the year to offer management relevant scouting report on any players?

VS

Letting same scout watch and re-watch (analyze) live games and video of games but have zero access to analytics??

Who would know more about players? Who's opinions would you trust as a GM?? which information is more useful to understand?

The answer is obvious but my point is, moneyball mentality does have it's place but the thing about numbers is, every other one is odd & all those numbers are essentially valueless without proper context... and moreover, can be used to prove almost anything when skewed correctly or biasedly in this case

Someone find the analytics to prove that Tavares;

Isn't a horrible skater on the decline
11 million cap is fair for the value he brings
Isn't a complete wimp of a captain
(at least Gord Ogilvey was a man)
Couldn't be upgraded easily @ roughly half cap hit (O'Reilly)
Former team didn't actually improve the year after Tavares left (Islanders)
Has at all lived up to expectations!
or isn't holding back the Leafs chances of improving and winning a stanley cup (NMC)
...Bet it can't be done...

Will Treliving ask him to waive?
I highly doubt it...

Is it the best thing for the Leafs if Treliving did?
I think you'd be hard pressed to find one rational Leafs fan to argue otherwise...

Someone make a poll

I think it's ok to be a loyal person, it's really actually rather admirable but to be a Tavares loyalist requires ignorance or willful blind faith...

 

[PROUD PAPA]

In a way, it is not a matter of wanting to keep the core but more we are stuck with the core


Not dissing Reilly but they did went down without a fight against the Panthers. Also, keep doing the same thing and hoping to get a result is insanity.

It’s the answer I’d give too so I don’t spend the summer sucking on a microphone.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[darrylsittler27]

I garauntee if we moved Marner there would be a long long lineup of teams prepared to give us very good value, even despite his big contract

That said, I think we’d be crazy to trade him, but we need him to work on his physical strength

Im convinced one of marner or Nylander will be traded. We are stuck in a corner.

 

[ACC1224]

Im convinced one of marner or Nylander will be traded. We are stuck in a corner.

It could be Nylander, it won’t be Marner,100%

 

[Clark4Ever]

I'm starting to think that the best way forward is to extend all of them to shorter term contracts (in the 4-5 year range) at team friendly AAVs. This will benefit the team in the short term and allow MNM to cash in one more time as pending free agents before they start to decline.

 

[Notsince67]

It's not really that hard to understand.

If by "core four" they mean the forwards (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares) then it's simple: Matthews is one of the best centres in the league and our only good one; Marner is overpaid so you can't get value for him; Nylander is tradable, but easily the best value contract, so you shouldn't; and Tavares can't be.

If by "core four" they mean the best (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly), then just change the last to read "our best and generally only offensive D".

If Marner didn't have a NMC in his contract, you could absolutely get value with 2 more years. Zero to do with his contract.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I garauntee if we moved Marner there would be a long long lineup of teams prepared to give us very good value, even despite his big contract

That said, I think we’d be crazy to trade him, but we need him to work on his physical strength

Trading him would be crazy if the return was poor and smart if the return was good.

IMO it's Marner's mental strength that needs work, a lot of work. The way he played the worst game of his career against Florida in game screams mental weakness to me.

I'm starting to think that the best way forward is to extend all of them to shorter term contracts (in the 4-5 year range) at team friendly AAVs. This will benefit the team in the short term and allow MNM to cash in one more time as pending free agents before they start to decline.

And the smart thing to so would be to have NMC's not kick in before 3 years. Sign them for 5, take 2 more kicks at the can and then trade them all. Timing would be perfect as they will all be starting to decline by then anyway.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If Marner didn't have a NMC in his contract, you could absolutely get value with 2 more years. Zero to do with his contract.

First off, as far as I know the NMC is part of his contract, so yes, it does have to do with his contract.

But I know you meant "zero to do with the dollar amount of his contract".

I know you don't think he is overpaid, and I'm sure you know that I think he is. Difference of opinion, which is fine.