The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[Arzak]

Mike Johnson (TSN) predicts Matthews will want 13-14 mill a year for 3 years.

If that is the case and BT gives him that, you can bet that core will be done. Not just one of their wingers, but possibly Rielly too.

Wow, I was being sarcastic and talking without a sauce predicting their need to max their earnings with cap raise and JT coming off the books.

Matthews will be highest paid now and again in 3 years.
Probably how he imagined it signing 5-year contract.

Thank you Kyle Dubas.

 

[ToneDog]

Wow, I was being sarcastic and talking without a sauce predicting their need to max their earnings with cap raise and JT coming off the books.

Matthews will be highest paid now and again in 3 years.
Probably how he imagined it signing 5-year contract.

Thank you Kyle Dubas.

The Dubasites argued 5 years and then 8 was better than 8 and then 8 because you get the best 13 years of his career. Now he has all the leverage and probably isn't even entertaining 8 years. LOL.

 

[ULF_55]

Wow, I was being sarcastic and talking without a sauce predicting their need to max their earnings with cap raise and JT coming off the books.

Matthews will be highest paid now and again in 3 years.
Probably how he imagined it signing 5-year contract.

Thank you Kyle Dubas.

So we will be able to thank Treliving for the 3 year deal.

 

[Tak7]

Imo, the issue is that they have ever exhausted trade options. In fact, they've never even entertained it and it's reported that they won't once again this off-season

I understand not wanting to trade these guys for nothing, but we have to actively shop and see what's out there

I agree, but we just don't know what trade discussions they have had. It seems like they've at least peddled Nylander around the league in a the more recent past, but we really don't know what the story has been with the others.

 

[MCR74]

Mike Johnson (TSN) predicts Matthews will want 13-14 mill a year for 3 years.

If that is the case and BT gives him that, you can bet that core will be done. Not just one of their wingers, but possibly Rielly too.

If that's the case, ship him out. He's not a $14M player.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I agree, but we just don't know what trade discussions they have had. It seems like they've at least peddled Nylander around the league in a the more recent past, but we really don't know what the story has been with the others.

I don't think they peddled any of them .. there is ZERO talk from anyone at MLSE or any sponsor or any family member or any scout i know .. ZERO .. it would get out if they were entertaining options

 

[mjd1001]

Nice theory.

Please explain the logistics around how this happens. Start with how many teams have the cap space, desire, and assets for Matthews, while taking into account they must be a team Matthews is willing to go to.

I'm very interested in how this would produce "a lot more" than the Eichel trade commanded.

I can't therorize the exact mechanics of another team working out a deal with Matthews would be. After the Leafs identify a partner he and his agent are possibly given permission to talk with them about a new deal. Back channels are worked. This stuff happens. I think it would be VERY unlikely that a team would trade for him without knowing a contract would happen shortly after.
As far as getting more than Eichel? He is a better player than Eichel. He would be being traded at the same age. He has a LOT more production than Eichel, and Eichel has a much, much worse injury history. How you think he wouldn't get a better return...I just don't understand.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Many still haven't figured out how bad the damage is. We have no picks, a weak prospect pool and have fallen behind the East. Expansion teams are better. The Dubas model is shattered and we will be forced to move on.

 

[egd27]

I can't therorize the exact mechanics of another team working out a deal with Matthews would be. After the Leafs identify a partner he and his agent are possibly given permission to talk with them about a new deal. Back channels are worked. This stuff happens. I think it would be VERY unlikely that a team would trade for him without knowing a contract would happen shortly after.
As far as getting more than Eichel? He is a better player than Eichel. He would be being traded at the same age. He has a LOT more production than Eichel, and Eichel has a much, much worse injury history. How you think he wouldn't get a better return...I just don't understand.

Right, so once we've decided we don't want to meet his ask we just need to find a team with cap, interest in taking on said huge contract, and assets we covet, that AM34 is willing to work out a contract extension he likes on the QT. Oh yea, the new team may also be on the hook for this July's $7.2M bonus.

How hard could that be ?

 

[mjd1001]

Right, so once we've decided we don't want to meet his ask we just need to find a team with cap, interest in taking on said huge contract, and assets we covet, that AM34 is willing to work out a contract extension he likes on the QT. Oh yea, the new team may also be on the hook for this July's $7.2M bonus.

How hard could th

To address you once again, YES! when you are talking about an elite talent, a top 10, possibly top 5 player in the league, Yes, of COURSE teams will go through all of that to get him. Don't see why you don't think that is possible. You want a guy that is a MVP level player, teams will do that.

Not to mention that he may be more valuable to other teams than the Leafs. His talent will be the same for anyone else on the ice but the Leafs don't need the extra draw/attention his marketing brings. To other teams the attention and revenue he brings will likely be more important to them.

And as far as Cap room, pieces will be coming back to the Leafs. If a team is right up to the cap or over it...there may be an issue, but they don't need to have $12.4m in cap space. They will likely be sending some cap space back, and to fit a talent like AM, they can make other moves to clear space.

Again, when you are talking a talent like AM, other teams WILL do things beyond what they would for other players who are just 'good' or 'stars'.

If that's the case, ship him out. He's not a $14M player.

It depends. If you get the 2021-22 version of him, he is worth that much. That isnt out of the question either as he should still be in his statistical prime for 3-4 more years.

Plus $14m over 2-3 years isn't as ideal as $14 over 6 or 7 years. If he gets 6 or 7, he is still in (or close to) his prime toward the end of that contract, but the end of the contract likely has a higher cap so those years are less of a percentage.

If you give him $14m, in a perfect world that is 4-5 years for me and I'd do that.

 

[Gaberd2608]

To address you once again, YES! when you are talking about an elite talent, a top 10, possibly top 5 player in the league, Yes, of COURSE teams will go through all of that to get him. Don't see why you don't think that is possible. You want a guy that is a MVP level player, teams will do that.

Not to mention that he may be more valuable to other teams than the Leafs. His talent will be the same for anyone else on the ice but the Leafs don't need the extra draw/attention his marketing brings. To other teams the attention and revenue he brings will likely be more important to them.

And as far as Cap room, pieces will be coming back to the Leafs. If a team is right up to the cap or over it...there may be an issue, but they don't need to have $12.4m in cap space. They will likely be sending some cap space back, and to fit a talent like AM, they can make other moves to clear space.

Again, when you are talking a talent like AM, other teams WILL do things beyond what they would for other players who are just 'good' or 'stars'.


It depends. If you get the 2021-22 version of him, he is worth that much. That isnt out of the question either as he should still be in his statistical prime for 3-4 more years.

Plus $14m over 2-3 years isn't as ideal as $14 over 6 or 7 years. If he gets 6 or 7, he is still in (or close to) his prime toward the end of that contract, but the end of the contract likely has a higher cap so those years are less of a percentage.

If you give him $14m, in a perfect world that is 4-5 years for me and I'd do that.

I struggle to see a scenario where $14 million is justified. If they offered him $14 million and it was not for 8 years I would think that would be even worse.

There is no model in a cap world to justify allocating that much of the cap to one player. Especially a player who requires elite linemates to function. If Matthews got $14 million but we could play him with Knies on an ELC and Jarnkrok at $2 million then maybe it would be possible but Matthews is not Crosby. He does not elevate the play of his linemates and he has zero leadership qualities from what can see.

I think assuming the term was in the 5-6 years, I would go as high as $13 million just to move forward as it would be annoying to lose him over $0.5 million but I would not be impressed with him and there would be zero chance I would make him an A or a C.

 

[egd27]

To address you once again, YES! when you are talking about an elite talent, a top 10, possibly top 5 player in the league, Yes, of COURSE teams will go through all of that to get him. Don't see why you don't think that is possible. You want a guy that is a MVP level player, teams will do that.

Not to mention that he may be more valuable to other teams than the Leafs. His talent will be the same for anyone else on the ice but the Leafs don't need the extra draw/attention his marketing brings. To other teams the attention and revenue he brings will likely be more important to them.

And as far as Cap room, pieces will be coming back to the Leafs. If a team is right up to the cap or over it...there may be an issue, but they don't need to have $12.4m in cap space. They will likely be sending some cap space back, and to fit a talent like AM, they can make other moves to clear space.

Again, when you are talking a talent like AM, other teams WILL do things beyond what they would for other players who are just 'good' or 'stars'.

You didn't address the Matthews side of the equation at all. Think he's going to sign an extension with just anyone that wants him when he can go wherever he want in one more season?

If he doesn't want to extend with the Leafs, how many teams do you think he'd want to sign with now, knowing that he can field offers as a UFA after next season?

This line of discussion started with niagra bill saying just trade him to Arizona if he doesn't sign by June 22nd. It's not that simple.

Dubas painted us into a corner with his signing bonuses, and full NMC. It all may work out, but don't kid yourself, Matthews holds all the cards already.

 

[MCR74]

I struggle to see a scenario where $14 million is justified. If they offered him $14 million and it was not for 8 years I would think that would be even worse.

There is no model in a cap world to justify allocating that much of the cap to one player. Especially a player who requires elite linemates to function. If Matthews got $14 million but we could play him with Knies on an ELC and Jarnkrok at $2 million then maybe it would be possible but Matthews is not Crosby. He does not elevate the play of his linemates and he has zero leadership qualities from what can see.

I think assuming the term was in the 5-6 years, I would go as high as $13 million just to move forward as it would be annoying to lose him over $0.5 million but I would not be impressed with him and there would be zero chance I would make him an A or a C.

I'm having difficulty justifying $14M too. Good player no doubt, but his wonky wrist and playoff no-shows leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Mess]

Many still haven't figured out how bad the damage is. We have no picks, a weak prospect pool and have fallen behind the East. Expansion teams are better. The Dubas model is shattered and we will be forced to move on.

I agree its shocking how much damage the previous GM inflicted on Leaf Nation that others can't see nor willing to acknowledge. He has been mortgaging the Leafs future for the present years in advance.

We were competing for the 2023 Stanley Cup and we only have 5 of a possible 12 selections from rounds 1-4 (top 120 picks) surviving today 3 year into future drafts.

Don't even get me started on the core 4 where common sense alone should suggest in a Cap World that having 4 forwards eat up 1/2 your cap is a death sentence and self inflicted wound. Now with all these overpaid contracts of under-producing players with tricky and prickly NMC

Big unmovable contracts with limited draft picks to draft and develop, I feel bad for Treliving inheriting this mess and the full pain of these players wanting raises on previous bad contracts with a empty feeder system only full of 5-8 to 5-11 players 170 lbs that most NHL teams would have little use for when everyone is going Big, Mean, Mobile and Brad Treliving is going to have to face that scorched earth fallout by being unable to build a winning team in the present.

Until the Leafs can get out from under the Cap Hell that the Tavares contract started and will hopefully end in a couple years things are going to be difficult for our GM liviing in the wake of that damage of the past.

 

[Moonman]

Many still haven't figured out how bad the damage is. We have no picks, a weak prospect pool and have fallen behind the East. Expansion teams are better. The Dubas model is shattered and we will be forced to move on.

Amen

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Bringing back the core is cowardly imo.

Look at Vegas - went deep, didn't work, completely retooled. Florida, same thing. Tampa kept their core, but their core was much better and more well rounded than ours is.

 

[FerrisRox]

Bringing back the core is cowardly imo.

Look at Vegas - went deep, didn't work, completely retooled. Florida, same thing. Tampa kept their core, but their core was much better and more well rounded than ours is.

...And their core was successful.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

If reports are true about Matthews ask.... Man he's a funny guy. In what world does less points than Nylander in a contract year get you $14M on a three year deal?

I don't care if they're just shooting high as a negotiation tactic, that's just insulting. If this is true time to replenish the prospect pool starting with a Mathews trade. The sore 4 era is over.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Maybe by "core 4" they referred to Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Nylander

Tavares not included.

Or is that too optimistic?

Tavares is only included in the 'overpaid three'.

 

[authentic]

If that's the case, ship him out. He's not a $14M player.

Bringing back the core is cowardly imo.

Look at Vegas - went deep, didn't work, completely retooled. Florida, same thing. Tampa kept their core, but their core was much better and more well rounded than ours is.

Is it really their core that was so much better or is it their overall team? If their core is so much better than why did our core outplay theirs both times we played in the playoffs?

 

[notDatsyuk]

When you laugh while getting punched in the face, you are a pathetic hockey player without even the minimum size balls needed for playoff hockey.

When a rookie gets judo smashed into the ice and sustains a concussion, no one does anything about it, ever, you are a pathetic bunch of soft individuals masquerading as a “team”; this group is a disgrace to the crest.

Launch Marner into space and trade one or both of Matthews or Nylander at 12:01 of July 2nd if they don’t sign

JT? Guy’s as untradeable as Clarkson, let’s just hope he gets stripped and ends up on Robidas. He’s the softest and most uninspired of the bunch

You know that the Leafs traded Clarkson, right?

Frightening to think that, with their respective cap hits, Clarkson had more trade value than Tavares does.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Is it really their core that was so much better or is it their overall team? If their core is so much better than why did our core outplay theirs both times we played in the playoffs?

Their team, in part because they don't have so much salary invest in a few players all playing the same positions.

 

[RoadWarrior]

There is no reasonable case for bringing back the core unless the only thing that matters is the regular season.
If ownership doesn’t care about the playoffs then they should absolutely run it back.

 

[Farsailor]

So whats the latest? They are bringing in Austons big idol as some sort of assistance to the gm? As if this team didnt have enough of friendships running all the way up. Maybe it will sign Matthews but surely also the continuing of no one held responsible for anything. Might be way off here but what is going on really..

 

[RoadWarrior]

Wow, I was being sarcastic and talking without a sauce predicting their need to max their earnings with cap raise and JT coming off the books.

Matthews will be highest paid now and again in 3 years.
Probably how he imagined it signing 5-year contract.

Thank you Kyle Dubas.

They can bring the core back and use minor leaguers to fill out the bottom 6. It’s doable but it won’t make them a better team.