The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[myleafs]

The only case that could be made for bringing back the core is: regular season excitement.

There's a large enough sample size to realize this core, as constructed, does not have the heart, guts, versatility, and attitude necessary to win anything significant. They have proven that.

However, for 82 games this core is exciting, dramatic, entertaining and fun to root for. In terms of raw talent and pure skill, it's been decades since the Leafs had an offensive core capable of wowing us offensively. They just don't have another gear physically or mentally come playoffs.

It's also likely that any trade involving the core 4 would end up being a "loss" on paper and in terms of excitement. There's no way the Leafs could parlay a Matthews or Marner into a Draisaitl, Tkachuk, McDavid, MacKinnon, Pastrnak, Bedard, etc. So any deal they make would likely be a depth deal that returns better "team players for the playoffs." But those trades don't end up being sexy unless you win a Cup.

Those in charge of the team are likely subscribing to the "bird in hand" mindset. And this core, sans Tavares at this point, are so tantalizing that people can't help but wonder, "is this finally their year?"

The problem is that excitment is waning and more and more people are tuning this group out until they prove they are more than regular season harlem globetrotters. Disney on ice gets tiring pretty fast now especially after watching other teams in the playoffs. Time is running out. I agree though that I can see mlse just happy to be in the playoffs every year.

 

[ACC1224]

The problem is that excitment is waning and more and more people are tuning this group out until they prove they are more than regular season harlem globetrotters. Disney on ice gets tiring pretty fast now especially after watching other teams in the playoffs. Time is running out. I agree though that I can see mlse just happy to be in the playoffs every year.

Is that true(not saying it's not) or just your impression?

IMO, team is just as popular as ever.

 

[myleafs]

Is that true(not saying it's not) or just your impression?

IMO, team is just as popular as ever.

Quite a few people I know have started to turn off the leafs and dont have the same interest as before due to a few things such as perceived greed from the top. The top guys arent liked. Once the trio bent the leafs over in contracts the clock was ticking as it turned many off including myself....The cores attitude when losing is bratty at best.....but the main topic in our conversations always turns to the way they play. Soft soft soft......Not sticking up for themselves or each other all while playing perimeter hockey isnt a selling point and is a turn off. Watching our top 2 guys smirk and go limp while being manhandled all while everyone else just skates away avoiding any confrontation is hard to root for.

Watching the stanley cup and how those teams are going at it does not help. I have always stuck up for the leafs in our conversations but its getting harder and harder and I find myself just shrugging my shoulders and saying I hear ya. For me If they run it back this year its gonna be hard to care and ive cared for a very very long time.

 

[MCR74]

Unless you want another guaranteed early exit, there is no case. This core has proven they can't get it done time and time again.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Unless you want another guaranteed early exit, there is no case. This core has proven they can't get it done time and time again.

This time will be different - Bread Treveling

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Is that true(not saying it's not) or just your impression?

IMO, team is just as popular as ever.

Da waiting list to buy tickets is still 20+ years .. and sponsors make a killing advertising at home games .. and this existed whether team sucked or was decent .. it just doesn't matter how team does .. it will carry on until us true blue hockey guys stop funding da team .. and folks talk talk talk but guess what this month team is flush again with subscriber $$$ sponsor $$$ etc .. da year IS achieved by June 30th every year .. makes zero difference if a monkey was running team .. people on outside really do not understand how much profit da Leafs have already earned in 2023/24 season already before it even starts (so so so much deferred revenue it is ridiculous)

 

[hockeywiz542]

Where will Brad Treliving take the Maple Leafs? Decoding front office lingo

Brad Treliving has a tall task in front of him with the Maple Leafs and Justin Bourne tries to figure out where the new GM's head is at by dissecting what he's said so far.

www.sportsnet.ca

Topic: The Core Four

Real Treliving quote: "If you look at where these players are drafted, you just have to pick the number where they were drafted. There is a lot of pain to get good players."

"Having those players excites me. They are world-class players. We are going to review everything. I want to stress strongly I am not about coming in and making a statement. You can throw a body under the tarmac, and it might look good for a headline, but are you getting any better? At the end of the day, it is about getting better. Just being different doesn’t necessarily make you better."

What it means in plain English: This is equally parts savvy and frustrating. It’s savvy because he’s right, the players are elite, and getting elite players is so hard to do. They’re the drivers in this league, the difference-makers. But those in Toronto have seen it play out so similarly so many times, that it’s tough to support doing nothing with the group.

What I actually take away here is the “getting better” part about the team, which doesn’t read to me like a guy who thinks he’s been handed a Stanley Cup favourite who just needs a few bounces. A few missteps with this roster and they could slide back to where his Flames team was this past season, so I think he sees how crucial it is that if he decides to do something, it’s to improve more generally (rather than looking for one splash to put them over the top). And since it’s hard to improve by trading the best player in a deal, I don’t see Treliving doing anything with his core pieces any time soon, if he can avoid it.

 

[WillNy29]

Quite a few people I know have started to turn off the leafs and dont have the same interest as before due to a few things such as perceived greed from the top. The top guys arent liked. Once the trio bent the leafs over in contracts the clock was ticking as it turned many off including myself....The cores attitude when losing is bratty at best.....but the main topic in our conversations always turns to the way they play. Soft soft soft......Not sticking up for themselves or each other all while playing perimeter hockey isnt a selling point and is a turn off. Watching our top 2 guys smirk and go limp while being manhandled all while everyone else just skates away avoiding any confrontation is hard to root for.

Watching the stanley cup and how those teams are going at it does not help. I have always stuck up for the leafs in our conversations but its getting harder and harder and I find myself just shrugging my shoulders and saying I hear ya. For me If they run it back this year its gonna be hard to care and ive cared for a very very long time.

it feels like the guys we like never win here (Sundin, Clark, Gilmour) and the guys we hate go on and win elsewhere (Kessel soon to be x3, Murphy, Bozak).

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Anyone hear the 32 thoughts from today?

Friedman said his sources tell him that many many people in the organization (players, some coaching staff, etc.) think admin focuses too much on the core 4 in every way. The constant shuffling of the entire team around the core 4 results in the team not having an identity and the "other 19" (as Friedman calls them) feeling more like outsiders/spectators.

 

[weems]

Anyone hear the 32 thoughts from today?

Friedman said his sources tell him that many many people in the organization (players, some coaching staff, etc.) think admin focuses too much on the core 4 in every way. The constant shuffling of the entire team around the core 4 results in the team not having an identity and the "other 19" (as Friedman calls them) feeling more like outsiders/spectators.

This lines up well with what Friedman tweeted after the playoffs that there was some very harsh exit interviews and that one player told him don't suprised to see some big things happen in the coming weeks. Now that could have easily been a dig at Keefe and that he's potentially lost the room but it certainly felt the way it was being posted that it had more to do with the players.

 

[mikeyz]

I don't know what Marner wants but with a toxic fanbase constantly crapping on one of the best players in the league, I wouldn't doubt that any star in the nhl would require a premium to play here.

Maybe if he actually showed up in the playoffs we would get off his back.

Is that true(not saying it's not) or just your impression?

IMO, team is just as popular as ever.

It’s happened with me and a bunch of my friends who are Leaf fans and acquaintances I know as well.

 

[mikeyz]

This lines up well with what Friedman tweeted after the playoffs that there was some very harsh exit interviews and that one player told him don't suprised to see some big things happen in the coming weeks. Now that could have easily been a dig at Keefe and that he's potentially lost the room but it certainly felt the way it was being posted that it had more to do with the players.

I hope this happens

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Gabriel426]

Where will Brad Treliving take the Maple Leafs? Decoding front office lingo

Brad Treliving has a tall task in front of him with the Maple Leafs and Justin Bourne tries to figure out where the new GM's head is at by dissecting what he's said so far.

www.sportsnet.ca

Topic: The Core Four

Real Treliving quote: "If you look at where these players are drafted, you just have to pick the number where they were drafted. There is a lot of pain to get good players."

"Having those players excites me. They are world-class players. We are going to review everything. I want to stress strongly I am not about coming in and making a statement. You can throw a body under the tarmac, and it might look good for a headline, but are you getting any better? At the end of the day, it is about getting better. Just being different doesn’t necessarily make you better."

What it means in plain English: This is equally parts savvy and frustrating. It’s savvy because he’s right, the players are elite, and getting elite players is so hard to do. They’re the drivers in this league, the difference-makers. But those in Toronto have seen it play out so similarly so many times, that it’s tough to support doing nothing with the group.

What I actually take away here is the “getting better” part about the team, which doesn’t read to me like a guy who thinks he’s been handed a Stanley Cup favourite who just needs a few bounces. A few missteps with this roster and they could slide back to where his Flames team was this past season, so I think he sees how crucial it is that if he decides to do something, it’s to improve more generally (rather than looking for one splash to put them over the top). And since it’s hard to improve by trading the best player in a deal, I don’t see Treliving doing anything with his core pieces any time soon, if he can avoid it.

To me, it all depends on who are coming back in a trade?
Even if the core 4 are back, something need to change like the deployment of the core 4. If AM and MM are your most dangerous weapons, spread them out and sticks to it even if it means AM and MM could not get 100pts, as long as the team is winning.
If JT can’t handle being a 2C, then get Willie to play 2C and run JT at another 2C. That way there will be two second lines. Then get players to fit the way these two plays. Willie needs more North South players(Holmberg and Robertson) and let MM and Knies play with JT.
For some reason, Keefe and Dubas refuse to spread them into 3 lines even with ROR as 3C. It is either done bc Keefe thinks it works(which I doubt), or he needs to do it bc AM and MM needs to be together to cover each other weaknesses, and Willie needs to carry JT bc he is not even a 8mil player by himself.

How can that not be the case, considering these 4 forwards are the only forwards remaining from 5 years ago and most likely be the only forwards returning from last season opening night line up.
When it comes to Leafs forwards, there are the core 4 and everybody else.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

How can that not be the case, considering these 4 forwards are the only forwards remaining from 5 years ago and most likely be the only forwards returning from last season opening night line up.
When it comes to Leafs forwards, there are the core 4 and everybody else.

Players on winning teams always talk about the camaraderie in the dressing room. They're almost family. They have each other's backs.

If the "other 19" (I still like that term from Friedmon) feel like passengers on the core 4's train, is there any wonder we never ever see leaf players standing up for each other? Of not starting games on time? Of losing to Zamboni drivers?

Imagine "the other 19" thinking that the core 4 had a terrible game showing very little effort and then nodding along in approval when Keefe FINALLY called them out. Now imagine their reaction seeing Marner and co. being physically upset about it. THEN imagine their reaction to seeing Keefe (lol) apologize for calling them out. I still can't believe that actually happened...

 

[ShaneFalco]

Probably because they take up half the cap and can't adapt to.playoff hockey. So you look to the bargain bin

 

[MCR74]

Maybe if he actually showed up in the playoffs we would get off his back.

Bingo. That and quit posting shots of golfing or heading out to the cottage the day after being eliminated.

 

[Gabriel426]

Players on winning teams always talk about the camaraderie in the dressing room. They're almost family. They have each other's backs.

If the "other 19" (I still like that term from Friedmon) feel like passengers on the core 4's train, is there any wonder we never ever see leaf players standing up for each other? Of not starting games on time? Of losing to Zamboni drivers?

Imagine "the other 19" thinking that the core 4 had a terrible game showing very little effort and then nodding along in approval when Keefe FINALLY called them out. Now imagine their reaction seeing Marner and co. being physically upset about it. THEN imagine their reaction to seeing Keefe (lol) apologize for calling them out. I still can't believe that actually happened...

I agree with you, it starts at the top

 

[mjd1001]

So let's go back to the first bit why aren't you changing a winning lineup? What because you won't get a Matthews back, but what you might get back is a couple of talented pieces that can get you 20 goals apiece, and hit just enough to open up ice for other guys, hit enough that the other guys follow them into the breech. You might get some picks with which to draft the kind of players who aren't 5'8" but 6'2" and will do whatever it takes to win, and maybe win enough during the regular season to make the post season and turn it on to win it all.

So would they have still lost the trade?

Matthews should get more in return than Eichel got for Buffalo. Maybe a lot more. He has a lot more production through his carreer. No major injury history. Didn't want to 'get out'. So remember what Buffalo got for Eichel:

-Mid teens 1st round pick.
-2nd round pick
-Young Player who was picked in the early teens of the first round a previous season.
-Winger just entering his prime who is one of the best forecheckers in the league and a 30+ goal scorer and was locked up on a team friendly deal. (Tuch)
-Net additonal $5M cap space.

Again, Matthews should get MORE than that if you moved him.

 

[mjd1001]

Unless you want another guaranteed early exit, there is no case. This core has proven they can't get it done time and time again.

Honestly, Its not just an excuse, who they have played and lost to has a lot to do with early exits.
In the next year or two, they WILL have an easier path and they will get farther if you keep this core together.
Tampa is getting older. Boston is old and have a major retooling. Buffalo is a year or two away from being great. Detroit is a year or two away and doesn't have a huge ceiling. Same with Ottawa.
So....Florida. Avoid them in the first round and you are OK, and even if you get them it is still a 50-50 series.

I want this core broken up because I don't like them. I want a change. BUT I'll admit if the 4 of them are back this team still should be/will be a likely top 5 team in the league with a good shot to advance deep in the playoffs.

 

[Dreakmur]

Matthews should get more in return than Eichel got for Buffalo. Maybe a lot more. He has a lot more production through his carreer. No major injury history. Didn't want to 'get out'. So remember what Buffalo got for Eichel:

-Mid teens 1st round pick.
-2nd round pick
-Young Player who was picked in the early teens of the first round a previous season.
-Winger just entering his prime who is one of the best forecheckers in the league and a 30+ goal scorer and was locked up on a team friendly deal. (Tuch)
-Net additonal $5M cap space.

Again, Matthews should get MORE than that if you moved him.

Eichel was traded with like 7 years left on his contract. Matthews has 1. He’s a better player, but control is important too.

 

[mjd1001]

Eichel was traded with like 7 years left on his contract. Matthews has 1. He’s a better player, but control is important too.

I'm going on the assumption that he won't be traded unless the new team has a deal already worked out in principal.

 

[Dreakmur]

I'm going on the assumption that he won't be traded unless the new team has a deal already worked out in principal.

That team could just wait a year and pick him up for free as a UFA, right?

 

[mjd1001]

That team could just wait a year and pick him up for free as a UFA, right?

Not if they want to make sure you have him. If a team 'passes' on a trade for him, he is likely to resign with the Leafs or get traded to another team, which will have an opportunity to negotiate with him for a long term deal before completing the trade.

Bottom line is, if any other team really wants him, they are likely going to have to trade for him.

 

[Racer88]

The emotional side of me want all 4/of this core gone……… I mean working at Home Depot gone…….flipping burgers at BK gone .
The realist side of me wants a new coach and each one of the 4 brought in and told that they will do what the coach says and play the way he want or there will be consequences.
That scenario is the only case for brining them back.