The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[authentic]

Tavares won a series with the Islanders around 26 years old.

His play in that series pretty much singlehandedly put Florida out.

If they underachieved for 6 straight playoff seasons then yes.

this isn’t based on 2023 alone.


But they aren’t capable of elevating their games when it matters most…..Please don’t include Rielly with the others. He’s actually a Leaf.

They didn't even make the playoffs 6 years in a row and barely snuck in this season.

Their best core player over this time period Barkov is getting praise and his stats in the playoffs are worse than Matthews or Marner.

 

[Lightsol]

LOVED Dale Hunter as a player. Tough, skilled and played with a nasty edge.

He understands the importance of parking someone’s ass in front of the goalie.

Which is why I’d advocate for Dale as coach and Mark as GM unless they could bring in Bowman and Quenneville.

Except that the major secret behind the success of the London Knights in the OHL is draft manipulation, which you can't do in the NHL. Which is why Mark's drafts sucked ass.

 

[Antropovsky]

Watching Florida handle Carolina this far even easier than us puts things a bit more in perspective. Doesn’t absolve some of the performances that were not up to snuff, but Florida is legit. They seem like the odds on favorite to win it all imo

I mean, Carolina is a team without a lot of high end talent but who us extremely well coached. The situations really aren't comparable. Isn't their best player a 2nd round pick? Their top goalie a leaf castaway? There highest draft pick in the last 5 years has been injured all playoffs...

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Except that the major secret behind the success of the London Knights in the OHL is draft manipulation, which you can't do in the NHL. Which is why Mark's drafts sucked ass.

Yup...the ole' London "Tell drafting teams you are going to go the college route so you can drop to us" routine was instrumental in building that dynasty. There is a reason nobody wanted Hunter when he got the boot...even Lou didn't want him on the Island as an assistant.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Well, Matthews, Marner and Tavares were much more consistent at playoff game elevation when Keefe wasn't the coach. I wonder how much overplaying the shit out of the former two played into them dropping off by playoff time...

Remember when Babs wouldn't play them more than 18-19min a night and people were saying he was an idiot? I do recall AM and MM had their most impactful playoffs as far as the eye test in the first 3 series that Babs coached because they weren't worn out rags by the time the real games started. I hated Babs...like really hated him thinking he was wasting our core by not playing them the way Edmonton rode their horses....but I guess the old coot knew something that Keefe obviously didn't.

 

[Donnie740]

Yup...the ole' London "Tell drafting teams you are going to go the college route so you can drop to us" routine was instrumental in building that dynasty. There is a reason nobody wanted Hunter when he got the boot...even Lou didn't want him on the Island as an assistant.

I see nothing at all wrong with that. It’s exactly what you’d expect from the Hunters as they’ve always been about winning at all cost.

Players obviously want to go to London and play for the Hunter brothers, or that strategy would be useless.

 

[Jojalu]

Watch the games and tell me if you see any difference in the style of play Boston and Carolina use in comparison to the Leafs.

Actually, never mind because you likely wouldn’t even realize what you’re seeing.



You really need to do something about your user name.

“JT da real deal” is embarrassingly bad.

Bos style of play is different. Last 4 years it has resulted in exactly one more series win than the Leafs, so what good has it done them?

Yes they won in 2011 with a completely different roster, but this version of the Bruins has done nothing.

Carolina is nowhere near as physical as the Leafs and rely on possession and shots.

They have had more success than both Bos and Tor but they have not won, or been to a Cup with their group.

 

[RoadWarrior]

His play in that series pretty much singlehandedly put Florida out.



They didn't even make the playoffs 6 years in a row and barely snuck in this season.

Their best core player over this time period Barkov is getting praise and his stats in the playoffs are worse than Matthews or Marner.

That reference was to the Carolina Hurricanes. Not the Panthers.

Florida won the Presidents trophy last season and made the playoffs.

 

[Notsince67]

I see nothing at all wrong with that. It’s exactly what you’d expect from the Hunters as they’ve always been about winning at all cost.

Players obviously want to go to London and play for the Hunter brothers, or that strategy would be useless.

At least they know who to go after.

 

[therealkoho]

Quick history lesson to the kiddies and the aged who never learned a thing....
Back in 1979, the Islanders failed to win a cup after dominating the regular season yet again. In 5 years they were either conference finalists or semi finalist (once)
In 1980, Arbour decided to focus the team on energy and learn how to play in the playoffs. They traded 2 depth players and picked up Butch Goring...a great 2 way center at the trade deadline. No core removal required. They dipped below the 100 point mark for the first time in 5 years.
They won the 1st of many cups that year and a dynasty was born.
Bossy, Trottier and Gillies were no longer the focus of a team's defensive effort. Yeah...that sounds familiar.
Coaching and tactics matter.
Depth matters.
Get your shit together folks because this lynch mobs makes zero difference in the scheme of things and you just show how little you grasp the game.

I get the point, but as a fan of those teams(best hockey team ever). The 1C would skate through a wall and take your head off in order to win

The 1LW was the toughest guy in the league ask any of the Flyers, and was a point producer of some repute.

1RW there has never been a goal scorer like him.

The 1D was the best Jr ever behind Orr, as a professional opponents were swatted away like flies, he might have owned the leagues best point shot. He was the prototypical 1D

The rest of those Islanders were a fierce bunch who could all play whatever game was required of them

Our 1c has a great shot, is a good skater, who doesn't exactly intimidate anyone.

Our best scoring winger is a shadow of what Bossy was

We have no one like Jethro, and while I love Morgan he couldn't hold Potsys jock strap

You should read Trottiers book,a quick read and gives you a glimpse of what they were and why they won

 

[authentic]

That reference was to the Carolina Hurricanes. Not the Panthers.

Florida won the Presidents trophy last season and made the playoffs.

They didn't make the playoffs every season like Toronto, I'm aware of the season they had last year

 

[authentic]

Bos style of play is different. Last 4 years it has resulted in exactly one more series win than the Leafs, so what good has it done them?

Yes they won in 2011 with a completely different roster, but this version of the Bruins has done nothing.

Carolina is nowhere near as physical as the Leafs and rely on possession and shots.

They have had more success than both Bos and Tor but they have not won, or been to a Cup with their group.

People who are overly fixated on one aspect of the game the Leafs lack (such as team toughness in this case) don't really grasp the idea that if you score more than the other team, you win. You certainly don't need players running around taking everyone's head off to accomplish that.

 

[therealkoho]

People who are overly fixated on one aspect of the game the Leafs lack (such as team toughness in this case) don't really grasp the idea that if you score more than the other team, you win. You certainly don't need players running around taking everyone's head off to accomplish that.

Seems to be working for both Florida and the Knights of Vegas

 

[Notsince67]

I get the point, but as a fan of those teams(best hockey team ever). The 1C would skate through a wall and take your head off in order to win

The 1LW was the toughest guy in the league ask any of the Flyers, and was a point producer of some repute.

1RW there has never been a goal scorer like him.

The 1D was the best Jr ever behind Orr, as a professional opponents were swatted away like flies, he might have owned the leagues best point shot. He was the prototypical 1D

The rest of those Islanders were a fierce bunch who could all play whatever game was required of them

Our 1c has a great shot, is a good skater, who doesn't exactly intimidate anyone.

Our best scoring winger is a shadow of what Bossy was

We have no one like Jethro, and while I love Morgan he couldn't hold Potsys jock strap

You should read Trottiers book,a quick read and gives you a glimpse of what they were and why they won

The whole league was rougher back then. My aim was not to create an equivalency. It was to share a lesson of how these guys got over the hurdle. They actual played worse in the regular season to maintain a playoff ready style. To say they would have won anyways doesn't really resonate with me. The evidence of change driven through coaching was clear. Their game changed. In the playoffs, they won and kept winning. Part of their jam was coached into them, not innate relative to the league at the time.

 

[authentic]

Seems to be working for both Florida and the Knights of Vegas

That among many other things such as goaltending, forechecking, defense and outscoring your opponent

 

[therealkoho]

That among many other things such as goaltending, forechecking, defense and outscoring your opponent

Thanks for that heads up about getting more goals than the other guy

As for those two teams

 

[ShaneFalco]

People who are overly fixated on one aspect of the game the Leafs lack (such as team toughness in this case) don't really grasp the idea that if you score more than the other team, you win. You certainly don't need players running around taking everyone's head off to accomplish that.

Nope but it's a grind - a punishing one at that. You can't have your top forwards play with no physicality or the will to go the net, or you get goalied every year

 

[Racer88]

Except that the major secret behind the success of the London Knights in the OHL is draft manipulation, which you can't do in the NHL. Which is why Mark's drafts sucked ass.

Lol, that’s all hear say and speculation. London gets all the good players because they trade for many of them because we have one of if not the best facility in the entire province.
playing at Bud Gardens is like an NHL experience

 

[therealkoho]

The whole league was rougher back then. My aim was not to create an equivalency. It was to share a lesson of how these guys got over the hurdle. They actual played worse in the regular season to maintain a playoff ready style. To say they would have won anyways doesn't really resonate with me. The evidence of change driven through coaching was clear. Their game changed. In the playoffs, they won and kept winning. Part of their jam was coached into them, not innate relative to the league at the time.

And it was a much different league where player movement was restricted, and a league where the coach didn't have to worry about using the wrong words because he was the boss, and if you were dragging your arse, a quick trip to the minors(no waivers remember) usually reminded the player who the boss was.

In today's league you need players who are willing to do the things you need to do to win, not players who really aren't willing to do those things and can't be told to do it, because it's not in their nature to do it.

Florida has at least 8 of those guys who are willing to do those things, and the rest are following along because it's what teammates do. The Leafs had no such leaders in that category and it needed to be the 6'3" 215lb Matthews that needed to do it.

A few years back I suggested moving Will for Tkachuk, not because he and MM were Jr teammates, but because I remember what he did on the way to winning the Memorial Cup, and how Mitch suddenly had all the open ice in the world and because of that London outscored everybody

 

[Notsince67]

And it was a much different league where player movement was restricted, and a league where the coach didn't have to worry about using the wrong words because he was the boss, and if you were dragging your arse, a quick trip to the minors(no waivers remember) usually reminded the player who the boss was.

In today's league you need players who are willing to do the things you need to do to win, not players who really aren't willing to do those things and can't be told to do it, because it's not in their nature to do it.

Florida has at least 8 of those guys who are willing to do those things, and the rest are following along because it's what teammates do.

A few years back I suggested moving Will for Tkachuk, not because he and MM were Jr teammates, but because I remember what he did on the way to winning the Memorial Cup, and how Mitch suddenly had all the open ice in the world and because of that London outscored everybody

Sure I can buy that. Here it is though...the Leafs are consistently below average from a penalty perspective despite big roster turnover. This might indicate a coaching strategy that doesn't emphasize high energy aggression.

 

[tmlms13]

The one and only case for bringing them all back is that would never win a trade involving them so it's not worth it.

If so, Keefe has to go imo, I understand that Shanny might want the new GM to be a part of the decision, but Keefe has had his multiple swings with probably the most talented Leafs teams of all time and only gotten an infield single.

 

[therealkoho]

Sure I can buy that. Here it is though...the Leafs are consistently below average from a penalty perspective despite big roster turnover. This might indicate a coaching strategy that doesn't emphasize high energy aggression.

I hear that and maybe that might be part of it

But

And it's a big BUT

do you actually think if Nylanders job was to burn into the ozone on a ring around and crush the Dman on retrieval, he'd do it? He'd be able to do it? Matthews? Marner? Anybody? I'll guarantee all of them could as they're all strong guys, but because they wouldn't nobody else did

Cookie, Laffs, ZAR for sure but that was it, they weren't the teams' leaders though

you won't ever get the party going if you can't get anyone dancing.

 

[Donnie740]

I get the point, but as a fan of those teams(best hockey team ever). The 1C would skate through a wall and take your head off in order to win

The 1LW was the toughest guy in the league ask any of the Flyers, and was a point producer of some repute.

1RW there has never been a goal scorer like him.

The 1D was the best Jr ever behind Orr, as a professional opponents were swatted away like flies, he might have owned the leagues best point shot. He was the prototypical 1D

The rest of those Islanders were a fierce bunch who could all play whatever game was required of them

Our 1c has a great shot, is a good skater, who doesn't exactly intimidate anyone.

Our best scoring winger is a shadow of what Bossy was

We have no one like Jethro, and while I love Morgan he couldn't hold Potsys jock strap

You should read Trottiers book,a quick read and gives you a glimpse of what they were and why they won

I agree, the NYI dynasty was one of the best teams ever. So much talent and toughness all through the lineup.

Personally speaking though, I’d rank them fourth behind Montreal’s late 70’s the Oilers mid 80’s and Pittsburgh of the early 90’s.

 

[therealkoho]

The one and only case for bringing them all back is that would never win a trade involving them so it's not worth it.

If so, Keefe has to go imo, I understand that Shanny might want the new GM to be a part of the decision, but Keefe has had his multiple swings with probably the most talented Leafs teams of all time and only gotten an infield single.

Yep sure OK, the team didn't have the necessary amount of crunch

Win the trade or win a Stanley Cup

Let me think on that

BTW have you been watching the Panthers/Canes, the Canes are a good team and would've been a great opponent for our Bud's, but the Panthers are doing to them what they did to us and because of that are up 3 zip. The Canes may win a game and maybe even two. If they do they'll have to pay a price.

 

[tmlms13]

Yep sure OK, the team didn't have the necessary amount of crunch

Win the trade or win a Stanley Cup

Let me think on that

BTW have you been watching the Panthers/Canes, the Canes are a good team and would've been a great opponent for our Bud's, but the Panthers are doing to them what they did to us and because of that are up 3 zip. The Canes may win a game and maybe even two. If they do they'll have to pay a price.

Crunch? trade 90+ point players for some people who score 50 points but have a few extra body checks. I don't care if they are the reincarnation of Darcy Tucker. I'll take the 60 goal scorer and 2x First Team All star.

Why on earth would I watch the Panthers vs Canes. Might be the worst ECF of all time.