The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[Aashir Mallik]

"low end" 2C" don't put up 30+ goals and 80 points in 80 games.

If you are going to lie at least make it sound plausible so it's not so blantlyobvious that you are lying.

And please don't come back with "PP tho" because at the end of the day he still hit 80 points in 80 games

Well if you are going to completely ignore a valid point due to ignorance, then other reasons are out there

He needs to play with some of the top wingers in the league. Nylander and Marner are top 25 and top 7 wingers in the league respectively. He plays with jarnkrok and bunting like Matthews has done this season, he probably has 55 points.

Also, yes he is a 2C, because if he didn’t get sheltered this much then he wouldn’t have touched 80. This is a dude who struggles to score against third liners.


In the playoffs he becomes a 3C. Him and Jordan staal aren’t much different. He can score a GWG, that doesn’t change the fact that he is probably reason number 1 as to why we lost. Every playoffs he is the worst of the core 4. He’s usually our 5th best player as Rielly is also always better than him, and in Columbus andersen was too. He’s an overrated commodity that shouldn’t have been signed, which was dubas’s biggest mistake.

There are easily 40-50 centers who would produce just as well, if not better in bud situation.

Stop kissing this bums ass

 

[The Iceman]

Well if you are going to completely ignore a valid point due to ignorance, then other reasons are out there

He needs to play with some of the top wingers in the league. Nylander and Marner are top 25 and top 7 wingers in the league respectively. He plays with jarnkrok and bunting like Matthews has done this season, he probably has 55 points.

Also, yes he is a 2C, because if he didn’t get sheltered this much then he wouldn’t have touched 80. This is a dude who struggles to score against third liners.


In the playoffs he becomes a 3C. Him and Jordan staal aren’t much different. He can score a GWG, that doesn’t change the fact that he is probably reason number 1 as to why we lost. Every playoffs he is the worst of the core 4. He’s usually our 5th best player as Rielly is also always better than him, and in Columbus andersen was too. He’s an overrated commodity that shouldn’t have been signed, which was dubas’s biggest mistake.

There are easily 40-50 centers who would produce just as well, if not better in bud situation.

Stop kissing this bums ass

Has Jordan Staal had a hat trick or series winning goal this playoff?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I don't know what Marner wants but with a toxic fanbase constantly crapping on one of the best players in the league, I wouldn't doubt that any star in the nhl would require a premium to play here.

That's why Matthews and Marner need to be traded because they are going to walk.

 

[thusk]

Overreaction lol. You are right that I forgot to point out our goaltending, but it was so bad that I actually overlooked it, especially samsonov’s play, however two things can be true at once. Samsonov was dogshit, yet vasi was even worse. The oreilly GTG and Rielly GWG were both soft as f***. The Rielly GTG was incredibly soft. I’m naming these 3 goals because they are probably the 3 most instrumental goals of the series looking back, apart from JT game 6. Those are all stupidly bad. Samsonov had some bad ones too, essyimont is the biggest example.

Even for round 2 it’s very true. Samsonov’s play was extremely mediocre, especially in round 2. He must’ve had like a .885 or so whilst bobrovsky had like a .950. So yes our goaltending was absolutely trash in the first 3 games. I don’t think woll was bad at all, even in game 3. He came in cold and we helped him out by giving up a breakaway for his first chance. As for overtime, if oreilly could make a simple pass across to kerfoot, that game could’ve been over from before. If McCabe and Brodie had brains reinhart doesn’t get near the net. We played so tentative and slow and scared during game 3 OT, we couldn’t generate anything from our big guys in that period.

As for the weak goals, whilst they went in, Samsonov and woll weren’t letting in much past them. Florida scored: 3,3,3,1,3 throughout the series. We should’ve taken game 4 and at least, 1 of the games they scored 3. We have 40 million dollar f***ing forwards and they couldn’t score 3 goals on a f***ing goalie. If all it takes is a hot stretch for a goalie to shutdown our team, and by the looks of it any team, then the forward philosophy is flawed. The whole point of this forward core is that they don’t get treated like just any other forward group such as the canes. But we got the exact same treatment, both stonewalled. maybe our core just isn’t we good as we think than.

Because leafs spend money most of it on foward doesnt mean they have to win 4-3

Pittsburgh is a great exemple... most of their cash wws on offensive and during his cup... 40% of their game they scored less than 3 goal... vs ottawa in semi-final 5 of 7 they acored less than 3 goal. Sometime when you played in a more defensive series, you need to fin a way to be able to win game 1-0, 2-1 or 3-2 in 8th overtime if you need it... its exactly what florida doing right now vs Carolina...you cant score so make sure you still allowing less goal to your opponent... scoring 4-5 goal every game is not the only way to win game...

Ps i didn't Blame Woll. He was a rookie who go in cold gm 3 and had to face a pretty hot goalie when the series was already down by 2.

 

[therealkoho]

Shanny has given his fans here the orders to now like the core, this is hilarious how you've all switched your opinions.

yeah sure, that's what I'm saying!

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Because leafs spend money most of it on foward doesnt mean they have to win 4-3

Pittsburgh is a great exemple... most of their cash wws on offensive and during his cup... 40% of their game they scored less than 3 goal... vs ottawa in semi-final 5 of 7 they acored less than 3 goal. Sometime when you played in a more defensive series, you need to fin a way to be able to win game 1-0, 2-1 or 3-2 in 8th overtime if you need it... its exactly what florida doing right now vs Carolina...you cant score so make sure you still allowing less goal to your opponent... scoring 4-5 goal every game is not the only way to win game...

Ps i didn't Blame Woll. He was a rookie who go in cold gm 3 and had to face a pretty hot goalie when the series was already down by 2.

I’m not saying every game, but I do feel you have to find a way to do it once. Even in your examples there still were times where it was done. You do that in games 1 2 or 3 and it’s only a 3-2 series and that is far from over. Do it in game 5 and maybe you put some doubt in floridas mind. My point is that in 5 games you need to score 3+ at least, at the very least once.

We were able to win once, and game 5 we were given ample opportunity by woll throughout the entire game and OT to finish it and we couldn’t. I’d say in that series our offence let us down a bit more than our goaltending did

Has Jordan Staal had a hat trick or series winning goal this playoff?

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not but…

Has John Tavares ever played in the conference finals?

Funnily enough, staal has had a playoff hattrick and it was against Bob….in 2012

 

[Donnie740]

So you don't like Dubas, but you want to go forward with HIS core and using HIS payment methods (getting hosed)?

Either our players are talented enough and deserve the contracts
OR
They need help to win and thus should get less money

The Dubas core is Pyjama Boy, Kerfoot, Holl and Bozo the Keefe. That’s the worthless trash that he assembled.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly are absolutely NOT Dubas’ core.

They were all on ELCs when Dubas inherited them. The only thing Dubas did with the core was give them terrible team-unfriendly contracts.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

There are 2 reasons you bring back the core as is.

#1 You have to sign Matthews and it's easier to do that if he doesn't see you making changes that cause you to take a step back.

The Leafs have A LOT of cap space to work with they can retool this team.

I read an article, I believe it was by James Mirtle that said they had between 20-30 million to work with that's a lot of money you can do A LOT with that.

#2 you think a new coach could utilize the core more effectively than Keefe and that one is true, Sheldon Keefe and never properly utilized the level of talent he has been gift wrapped.

Because make no mistake Sheldon Keefe has been gift wrapped the most talented team in Leaf history and he's failed.

And just so we are clear I'm not saying They shouldn't bring back the core I'm saying these are the reasons why They would

 

[Notsince67]

*Some of the best players in the league that are 1/7 in the first round, have 1 win in the 2nd round total, want to be paid like players that produce 1+ppg while not doing that themselves, lost to a zamboni driver

Oh and after all of this they want a raise.

Funny how Florida got so much better trading away a 120 point player and yet it's unthinkable to trade away proven losers who again WANT A RAISE lmfao.

Clear you know jack shit about hockey. Stop pissing on this pole because you are a bit of a waste of my time.

Holy f*** this argument is already coming up

The loser mentality is running strong on here already. I guess 2019 was a great run too, ditto for 2021.

Then if you think about it, we were runner up to the runner up like 3 times, that should give us a Stanley cup right there.

Instead of “swapping a few players” this team needs an identity change, and it starts with one of the core 4, and probably one of Matthews or Marner. Also it’s not assign blame, it’s obvious to anyone with eyes it was their fault. The core 5 was the reason we lost, especially Matthews Marner nylander and Tavares. They single-handedly, along with time to time Samsonov implosions made the series a quick one

I call a rip it up and start from scratch a loser mentality.
Seen it for a few decades

 

[Arzak]

We need to start evaluating them as individuals.

But since we are not doing it, keep the best one, and trade the rest.

 

[keonsbitterness]

The Dubas core is Pyjama Boy, Kerfoot, Holl and Bozo the Keefe. That’s the worthless trash that he assembled.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly are absolutely NOT Dubas’ core.

They were all on ELCs when Dubas inherited them. The only thing Dubas did with the core was give them terrible team-unfriendly contracts.

What kind of argument is that? Inherited or not, of course they were his core. He supported them all the way and made it clear until recently that he would not trade any of them.

 

[NVious]

The Dubas core is Pyjama Boy, Kerfoot, Holl and Bozo the Keefe. That’s the worthless trash that he assembled.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly are absolutely NOT Dubas’ core.

They were all on ELCs when Dubas inherited them. The only thing Dubas did with the core was give them terrible team-unfriendly contracts.

And now they are going to get paid even more

Clear you know jack shit about hockey. Stop pissing on this pole because you are a bit of a waste of my time.


I call a rip it up and start from scratch a loser mentality.
Seen it for a few decades

Yeah you know so much.

How did you learn to try the same losers over and over again? Its just so brilliant. Call it the "hope the losers stop losing eventually while we continue to pay them more and more to lose" mentality"

Btw did Boston trade Thornton and win a cup?
Did Florida trade a soft 120 point player and are about to make it to the cup finals?

No answers will be found because you don't know jack shit about Hockey.

 

[ShaneFalco]

There really is no case

 

[keonsbitterness]

Btw did Boston trade Thornton and win a cup?

Not only did the Bruins win a Cup, but they basically lost that trade. Sometimes subtraction leads to addition.

 

[Notsince67]

Quick history lesson to the kiddies and the aged who never learned a thing....
Back in 1979, the Islanders failed to win a cup after dominating the regular season yet again. In 5 years they were either conference finalists or semi finalist (once)
In 1980, Arbour decided to focus the team on energy and learn how to play in the playoffs. They traded 2 depth players and picked up Butch Goring...a great 2 way center at the trade deadline. No core removal required. They dipped below the 100 point mark for the first time in 5 years.
They won the 1st of many cups that year and a dynasty was born.
Bossy, Trottier and Gillies were no longer the focus of a team's defensive effort. Yeah...that sounds familiar.
Coaching and tactics matter.
Depth matters.
Get your shit together folks because this lynch mobs makes zero difference in the scheme of things and you just show how little you grasp the game.

 

[Maximus74]

With stronger goaltending, we don't lose to Florida in 5 and might end up winning.
The biggest thing for me tho is team toughness. When Bennett did WWE shit to our rookie with zero consequences, I knew we would lose. Not sticking up for teammates is the mark of a losing culture.

 

[Jojalu]

O


No, that’s exactly what Dubas FAILED do.

Instead of surrounding the core with tough, aggressive, fast skating, hard checking players he added more soft finesse players - - the only difference was they were less skilled.

Instead of dumping his buddy Bozo the Keefe, he insisted on sticking with him for five consecutive years of embarrassing coaching mistakes.

When players are struggling - - like Matthews and Marner clearly were against Florida - - a competent coach would scale back their ice time and send out guys who were playing better in the moment, instead of continuing to force feed them 22 to 24 minutes per game and 90 seconds of every power play.

When the opposition clogs the neutral zone with five players lined up across the blue line, a competent coach would employ the dump and chase instead of watching his core try to single-handedly stick handle through the opposition or turn around and skate backwards into their own zone.

So what exactly has Bos and Car failed to do that is any different than Tor?

 

[GoonieFace]

Quick history lesson to the kiddies and the aged who never learned a thing....
Back in 1979, the Islanders failed to win a cup after dominating the regular season yet again. In 5 years they were either conference finalists or semi finalist (once)
In 1980, Arbour decided to focus the team on energy and learn how to play in the playoffs. They traded 2 depth players and picked up Butch Goring...a great 2 way center at the trade deadline. No core removal required. They dipped below the 100 point mark for the first time in 5 years.
They won the 1st of many cups that year and a dynasty was born.
Bossy, Trottier and Gillies were no longer the focus of a team's defensive effort. Yeah...that sounds familiar.
Coaching and tactics matter.
Depth matters.
Get your shit together folks because this lynch mobs makes zero difference in the scheme of things and you just show how little you grasp the game.

So they won more than 1 playoff round for several years before they won the cup?

This team has won 1 playoff round period. Bit of a different scenario

Maybe these guys are just perennial losers, some people just are.

 

[Notsince67]

So they won more than 1 playoff round for several years before they won the cup?

This team has won 1 playoff round period. Bit of a different scenario

Maybe these guys are just perennial losers, some people just are.

Al Arbour is the winningest coach in history. Coaching matters. And Dennis Potvin didn't see a cup until 8 years. Clowns around here would have demanded he gets traded in a core cleanse. They were perennial cup chokers. Guaranteed this fan base doesn't have the rectal fortitude to avoid shitting their pants if the leafs were in that position.

 

[m1ker]

The first step the new GM needs to do is sign all 3 to an extension and if they don't agree or ask for too much, trade them

Second step is getting a goalie, 2 top defenseman and 2 power forwards for the top 6. If you can't do that, you need to make a trade.

 

[m1ker]

would you rather see a

Jones-Werenski pairing with a prime bobrovsky in net
or
Matthews-Marner
Tavares-Nylander

i'm sure stats alone can answer this one

 

[Notsince67]

The first step the new GM needs to do is sign all 3 to an extension and if they don't agree or ask for too much, trade them

Second step is getting a goalie, 2 top defenseman and 2 power forwards for the top 6. If you can't do that, you need to make a trade.

A goalie, 2 top defensemen and 2 power forwards? Thats it?
I wonder why the team doesn't win the cup every year.

 

[m1ker]

A goalie, 2 top defensemen and 2 power forwards? Thats it?
I wonder why the team doesn't win the cup every year.

I didnt finish typing out the 3rd and 4th step

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Need a GM who believes D and G are how you build a team for playoffs .. shed Murray but keep our 2023 pick .. use free agency/trades to build our D over summer keep Rielly Schenn Lily McCabe and ADD 2 big tough fast D download Brodie Holl Gio .. sign Sammy 1-year deal and go with him and Woll .. one of D needs to be a top 2 guy .. then resign ROR short term for 2 years .. move JT to LW .. add a couple big fast wingers who can play hard on puck and be physical .. resign Matty

 

[steam whistle]

I just recently figured out Brendan Shanahan making $7M salary, well, how many your guys making quarter million yearly?