The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If you are going to keep this core together, then they need to call up Washington and see if the caps are willing to trade Tom Wilson because that's the type of player the playoffs are built for.

Teams that succeed are built with rats and scumbags and look no further than Florida, that team is FILLED with Rats and scumbags, none bigger than Matt Tkachuk and they are 1 game away from the finals.

So you want to keep the pure ill you need a bastard
Piece of shit to play with them so you see what the price is for Tom Wilson because Washington is approching rebuild time.

 

[Donnie740]

The Cassandras around here are hillareous. After Murray gets kicked to the curb, the Leafs have something like 21 million to fill roster spots. "Let's open it up to 50mm to rebuild the team by jettisoning our best players. We can rebuild to cup competitive between 2 and 3 years."
We can do it with no GM in place."
Either leaf land has Manchurian candidates or there is an epidemic of learning disabilities all of a sudden.
Or is it just an influx of low functioning millennials supplementing the regular fools?

That’s how it works when you’re playing the NHL ‘23 video game. Just flip to rebuild mode and restock your team with a bunch of players rated 90+.

Which is why millennials identified so strongly with Dubas - - because he constructed a roster as if it were a video game or fantasy hockey.

 

[TML Dynasty]

Should be able to get a handle on what Nylander and Matthews want on their next deals. Trade if crazy. Hard part is doing so before NMC kicks in.

Marner scares me. 2 years left so u can’t negotiate. From all accounts wants to stay a leaf but wants top dollar to do so. 2 years makes him valuable in a trade tho.

I want to keep the core, hard to accumulate skill in this league. But not at any price. New GM has his work cut out.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Tavares.

These are the only players remaining since the 2018/2019 season. The first year Dubas was named GM. Everyone else has been replaced.

Multiple times.

The Leafs have looked at secondary scoring. They replaced it, all of it. And not only that, they replaced everyone else too.

The entire team, including the GM and coaching staff, has been changed with the exception of those core players.

Other than the losing, it's not the same team anymore. If scoring in the playoffs is an issue again this year, that's on Shanahan. The same guy that kept the same core together for all these years.

There is no one else to blame.

 

[thusk]

Leafs core playoff production;
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Tavares 55 22 22 44
Marner 50 10 37 47
Nylander 50 17 23 40
Matthews 50 22 22 44

Tampa:
Kucherov 142 53 107 160
Point 80 40 42 82
Stamkos 123 45 50 95
Hedman 160 22 88 110

Colarado:
Mack 77 44 56 100
Rant 70 30 57 87
Makar 61 16 49 65
Landeskog 69 27 40 67

[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


It's been 7 years buddy, this isn't the first time this group has failed.

Now the core wants a raise AFTER their failures.

And in those 7 years( last 8 series) how many time our goalie was the best one? Who allowed the less amount of weak goal? 1 Maybe 2 ( maybe 1st season vs Washington) and how many series they won? 1

Hockey is like football, if you want to ein a superbowl youre better to have a QB pretty hot... if hes not, youre better have a pretty solid team in front who will play pratically perfect game after perfect game... itd the same with hockey, if you goalie is hot youre in business, if hes not youre better have a pretty great team in front who will pratically playkng perfevt game after perfect game to win the cup...

 

[Notsince67]

That’s how it works when you’re playing the NHL ‘23 video game. Just flip to rebuild mode and restock your team with a bunch of players rated 90+.

Which is why millennials identified so strongly with Dubas - - because he constructed a roster as if it were a video game or fantasy hockey.

Let's order up some players through uber eats or skip the dishes.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Tavares.

These are the only players remaining since the 2018/2019 season. The first year Dubas was named GM. Everyone else has been replaced.

Multiple times.

The Leafs have looked at secondary scoring. They replaced it, all of it. And not only that, they replaced everyone else too.

The entire team, including the GM and coaching staff, has been changed with the exception of those core players.

Other than the losing, it's not the same team anymore. If scoring in the playoffs is an issue again this year, that's on Shanahan. The same guy that kept the same core together for all these years.

There is no one else to blame.

Some simple arithmatics...
32 teams. Average likelihood of a cup is 1 in 32 years. Swapping a few players every year without a cohesive strategy on building and playing to your strengths doesn't get you a hell of a lot closer.
Leafs lost last year to a Stanley Cup finalist and likely this year to something similar or better.
You want to assign blame and jettison some of the best players in the league?
Maybe you should pick a new team or a new sport because you as well as others don't have the temperament to come up with coherent prescription for what should be done other than going on a godzilla tandrum. It must be painful to be in a state of perpetual despair.

 

[Captain Crunch]

View attachment 711556

I would agree with this approach because I’ve always viewed Dubas and Bozo the Keefe as being the biggest problems.

Having a competent GM who understands how to construct a roster that compliments the strengths of the core and compensates for the weaknesses of the core would be a massive upgrade for the franchise.

Having an NHL-calibre coach who can establish consistent line pairings, implement an effective scheme, make in-game adjustments and hold players accountable is something the Leafs haven’t had for the past half decade.

Sorry, I don't agree. It has been proven in every playoff series since this core has been brought together, there is not enough cap money to get the players and positions, especially dmen, that are needed to be a legitimate Cup contender. Until the cap goes up significantly, and also assuming this core hasn't tried to bleed every dollar they can out of management from the cap allotment, this team will continue to be a pretender.
When ROR questions the comittment level of some of the players, and I'm betting it was directed at the core, that should be enough to tell anyone with half a brain that changes need to be made to this core.

 

[Notsince67]

Should be able to get a handle on what Nylander and Matthews want on their next deals. Trade if crazy. Hard part is doing so before NMC kicks in.

Marner scares me. 2 years left so u can’t negotiate. From all accounts wants to stay a leaf but wants top dollar to do so. 2 years makes him valuable in a trade tho.

I want to keep the core, hard to accumulate skill in this league. But not at any price. New GM has his work cut out.

I don't know what Marner wants but with a toxic fanbase constantly crapping on one of the best players in the league, I wouldn't doubt that any star in the nhl would require a premium to play here.

 

[ToneDog]

If you are going to keep this core together, then they need to call up Washington and see if the caps are willing to trade Tom Wilson because that's the type of player the playoffs are built for.

Teams that succeed are built with rats and scumbags and look no further than Florida, that team is FILLED with Rats and scumbags, none bigger than Matt Tkachuk and they are 1 game away from the finals.

So you want to keep the pure ill you need a bastard
Piece of shit to play with them so you see what the price is for Tom Wilson because Washington is approching rebuild time.

Rather go all in for Brady. A Matty and Brady 1,2C would be something. Tavares can move to the wing.

 

[Trapper]

Rather go all in for Brady. A Matty and Brady 1,2C would be something. Tavares can move to the wing.

Kyle Dubas now has a better chance of getting Tkachuk on his team than we do.

But maybe a Marner for Stutzle/D package could be possible. We could use another C moving Tavares to the wing.

 

[TML Dynasty]

And in those 7 years( last 8 series) how many time our goalie was the best one? Who allowed the less amount of weak goal? 1 Maybe 2 ( maybe 1st season vs Washington) and how many series they won? 1

Hockey is like football, if you want to ein a superbowl youre better to have a QB pretty hot... if hes not, youre better have a pretty solid team in front who will play pratically perfect game after perfect game... itd the same with hockey, if you goalie is hot youre in business, if hes not youre better have a pretty great team in front who will pratically playkng perfevt game after perfect game to win the cup...

I agree with a lot here, but how many times do we say we ran into a hot goalie. Our high priced core needs to score regardless of who is in the opposite net. Maybe a new system is required….more shots on net and making life difficult.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Some simple arithmatics...
32 teams. Average likelihood of a cup is 1 in 32 years. Swapping a few players every year without a cohesive strategy on building and playing to your strengths doesn't get you a hell of a lot closer.
Leafs lost last year to a Stanley Cup finalist and likely this year to something similar or better.
You want to assign blame and jettison some of the best players in the league?
Maybe you should pick a new team or a new sport because you as well as others don't have the temperament to come up with coherent prescription for what should be done other than going on a godzilla tandrum. It must be painful to be in a state of perpetual despair.

The bolded is an accurate description of the Leafs deadline strategy for years. So I can see your point. After that it starts getting a bit half baked.

Your whole defense of the losing is that they "lost to a Stanley Cup finalist".

It's a fallacy to say that just because all the teams that beat the Leafs went to the cup means the Leafs would have as well for one thing.

It's also a really lame excuse.

What you're basically saying is that they lost to a better team, so it's ok.

No it's not. All these teams they lost to are better than the Leafs? That's not a good thing when so many teams are better than you are.

I'm surprised I even have to tell you that.

Since when does the "they lost to a better team" excuse end anyway? It's been seven years of losing to a better team. When is it the Leafs turn to be the better team?

 

[thusk]

I agree with a lot here, but how many times do we say we ran into a hot goalie. Our high priced core needs to score regardless of who is in the opposite net. Maybe a new system is required….more shots on net and making life difficult.

How many goal florida scored vs carolina? 6 total, they was leading 3-0... Do you think they care about hoe many goal they scored?

If Campbell would not allowed 1-2 weak goal by game, gm 5 6 and 7 vs mtl, pretty sure leafs won it despite how good was price

If andersen didnt allowed trash goal vs atkinson gm, or giving up a 3 goal lead game 3, or giving up a trash goal in 3rd tobreudce all leafs chance to come back at 0... maybe this serie is completly different

Thats was why i was pretty high on Gibson last year despite his stats in a trash team because its not with an injured Murray or Samsonov leafs will win it.. Now Woll give us some hope but still a long road for him.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Marner scares me. 2 years left so u can’t negotiate. From all accounts wants to stay a leaf but wants top dollar to do so. 2 years makes him valuable in a trade tho.

I want to keep the core, hard to accumulate skill in this league. But not at any price. New GM has his work cut out.

Not according to anyone in the main boards

 

[Dreakmur]

If failure is defined as not winning a cup, yes.

Please list their core players that have been there for all 7 of those years.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Kevin McGran: Seven Musings: It feels like the Maple Leafs don’t have a plan. Harold Ballard would be proud

Moving on from Dubas might be the right decision. But it wasn’t made for any of the right reasons.

www.thestar.com

We’re on to the sideshow now. If the new GM sees his hand forced to the point where he has to trade Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner before their no-movement clauses kick in July 1, well, wouldn’t that just erase everything Shanahan sold MLSE ownership on. They won’t get the same quality of player back. Maybe more and cheaper players.

Playoff dates, and the revenue and ratings that come with them, goodbye. Especially in a division where Buffalo, Detroit and Ottawa are all on the rise.

This has to be Shanahan’s last GM hire. After all, how many can one president go through?

He fired Dave Nonis, went briefly with a Dubas-Mark Hunter tandem, said hello and goodbye to Lou Lamoriello, lost Hunter with Dubas’s ascension, and now has parted ways with Dubas.

He said he wants an experienced GM. It will be curious to see if an experienced executive will put up with a president who wants to be more than a rubber stamp on personnel moves.

6. Maybe the play for the new GM is to run it all back, even if it means walking Matthews and Nylander to free agency. They’ll both be motivated in show-me years. And that’s $18 million or so of cap space the new guy can use. It would also give time for the new GM to build relationships with those players.

 

[On-the-Fly]

Maybe by "core 4" they referred to Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Nylander

Tavares not included.

Or is that too optimistic?

Exactly.

 

[NVious]

And in those 7 years( last 8 series) how many time our goalie was the best one? Who allowed the less amount of weak goal? 1 Maybe 2 ( maybe 1st season vs Washington) and how many series they won? 1

Hockey is like football, if you want to ein a superbowl youre better to have a QB pretty hot... if hes not, youre better have a pretty solid team in front who will play pratically perfect game after perfect game... itd the same with hockey, if you goalie is hot youre in business, if hes not youre better have a pretty great team in front who will pratically playkng perfevt game after perfect game to win the cup...

Lmfao more excuses for the 40 million dollar tinmen.

So we pay them 40 million and then STILL have to listen to excuses about why it wasn't THEIR fault they couldn't score lmfao.

 

[Aashir]

The worst signing in sports history? Not even close that's ridiculous

sports have never seen a signing never live up to his contract this badly, and also destroy a promising young teams future as badly as John Tavares did for the leafs

He ruined the team by coming here. He was never even close to living up to his value, years 1-2 he was a low end 1C or high end 2C. Years 3-4 he was just a 2C. This year he was a low end 2C

Next year I won’t be surprised if he ends with 50 points

 

[NVious]

Some simple arithmatics...
32 teams. Average likelihood of a cup is 1 in 32 years. Swapping a few players every year without a cohesive strategy on building and playing to your strengths doesn't get you a hell of a lot closer.
Leafs lost last year to a Stanley Cup finalist and likely this year to something similar or better.
You want to assign blame and jettison some of the best players in the league?
Maybe you should pick a new team or a new sport because you as well as others don't have the temperament to come up with coherent prescription for what should be done other than going on a godzilla tandrum. It must be painful to be in a state of perpetual despair.

*Some of the best players in the league that are 1/7 in the first round, have 1 win in the 2nd round total, want to be paid like players that produce 1+ppg while not doing that themselves, lost to a zamboni driver

Oh and after all of this they want a raise.

Funny how Florida got so much better trading away a 120 point player and yet it's unthinkable to trade away proven losers who again WANT A RAISE lmfao.

 

[NVious]

That’s how it works when you’re playing the NHL ‘23 video game. Just flip to rebuild mode and restock your team with a bunch of players rated 90+.

Which is why millennials identified so strongly with Dubas - - because he constructed a roster as if it were a video game or fantasy hockey.

So you don't like Dubas, but you want to go forward with HIS core and using HIS payment methods (getting hosed)?

Either our players are talented enough and deserve the contracts
OR
They need help to win and thus should get less money

 

[Aashir]

Just funny so see overraction

Vs tb
Gm 1 samsonov gave up at least 4 weak game and tampa easily won it

Gm 2
Vasilevskiy gave up 2 weak goal in 1st and toronto won it easily

Gm 3 Vasilevskiy gave 2 weak goal vs 1 for Samsonov who was hot rest of the team... Toronto won by 1

Gm 4 vasilevskiy gave up 1 weak goal vs 0... leafs won by 1

Gm 5 samsonov allowed 1 weak goal vs 0... tb won by 1+empty net goal

Gm 6 both goalie was great and toronto won on a lucky bounce goal...

5 of 6 game, goalie who allowed less weak goal, his team won

Vs florida
Gm 1 samsonov gave up 2 weak goal vs 0... florida won by 2

Gm 2 samsonov gave 1 weak goal vs 0
Florida won by 1

Gm 3 woll gave up 1 weak goal vs 0
Florida won by 1

Gm 4 both goalie was great, toronto won

Both goalie gave 1 weak goal florida won

3 of 5 game the team who gave up less weak goal won and the 2 game tie was split..

I just dont understand why when oppsite G was just better than our goaltender = panic, everybody suck and we should t4ade everyone

When our g was better = we won because we played an AHL goalie level ( who still best NHL goaltender)


Maybe if samsonov didn't allowed a f***ing bad rebound for 1st goal of the game or an awful goal on montour to neutralize every chance to comeback... maybe the result would be different...

If samsonov didnt allower a trash goal to Barkov to tie the game... maybe unstead of losing 3-2, maybe its a 2-1 win...

If Woll didnt allowed weak overtime goal to reinhart, maybe leafs would won it

One thing is sure, when your foalie always allowing higher amount of weak goal, its hard to overcome this

Overreaction lol. You are right that I forgot to point out our goaltending, but it was so bad that I actually overlooked it, especially samsonov’s play, however two things can be true at once. Samsonov was dogshit, yet vasi was even worse. The oreilly GTG and Rielly GWG were both soft as f***. The Rielly GTG was incredibly soft. I’m naming these 3 goals because they are probably the 3 most instrumental goals of the series looking back, apart from JT game 6. Those are all stupidly bad. Samsonov had some bad ones too, essyimont is the biggest example.

Even for round 2 it’s very true. Samsonov’s play was extremely mediocre, especially in round 2. He must’ve had like a .885 or so whilst bobrovsky had like a .950. So yes our goaltending was absolutely trash in the first 3 games. I don’t think woll was bad at all, even in game 3. He came in cold and we helped him out by giving up a breakaway for his first chance. As for overtime, if oreilly could make a simple pass across to kerfoot, that game could’ve been over from before. If McCabe and Brodie had brains reinhart doesn’t get near the net. We played so tentative and slow and scared during game 3 OT, we couldn’t generate anything from our big guys in that period.

As for the weak goals, whilst they went in, Samsonov and woll weren’t letting in much past them. Florida scored: 3,3,3,1,3 throughout the series. We should’ve taken game 4 and at least, 1 of the games they scored 3. We have 40 million dollar f***ing forwards and they couldn’t score 3 goals on a f***ing goalie. If all it takes is a hot stretch for a goalie to shutdown our team, and by the looks of it any team, then the forward philosophy is flawed. The whole point of this forward core is that they don’t get treated like just any other forward group such as the canes. But we got the exact same treatment, both stonewalled. maybe our core just isn’t we good as we think than.

 

[Aashir]

Some simple arithmatics...
32 teams. Average likelihood of a cup is 1 in 32 years. Swapping a few players every year without a cohesive strategy on building and playing to your strengths doesn't get you a hell of a lot closer.
Leafs lost last year to a Stanley Cup finalist and likely this year to something similar or better.
You want to assign blame and jettison some of the best players in the league?
Maybe you should pick a new team or a new sport because you as well as others don't have the temperament to come up with coherent prescription for what should be done other than going on a godzilla tandrum. It must be painful to be in a state of perpetual despair.

Holy f*** this argument is already coming up

The loser mentality is running strong on here already. I guess 2019 was a great run too, ditto for 2021.

Then if you think about it, we were runner up to the runner up like 3 times, that should give us a Stanley cup right there.

Instead of “swapping a few players” this team needs an identity change, and it starts with one of the core 4, and probably one of Matthews or Marner. Also it’s not assign blame, it’s obvious to anyone with eyes it was their fault. The core 5 was the reason we lost, especially Matthews Marner nylander and Tavares. They single-handedly, along with time to time Samsonov implosions made the series a quick one

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

sports have never seen a signing never live up to his contract this badly, and also destroy a promising young teams future as badly as John Tavares did for the leafs

He ruined the team by coming here. He was never even close to living up to his value, years 1-2 he was a low end 1C or high end 2C. Years 3-4 he was just a 2C. This year he was a low end 2C

Next year I won’t be surprised if he ends with 50 points

"low end" 2C" don't put up 30+ goals and 80 points in 80 games.

If you are going to lie at least make it sound plausible so it's not so blantlyobvious that you are lying.

And please don't come back with "PP tho" because at the end of the day he still hit 80 points in 80 games