The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXIII

[Aphid Attraction]

Can someone tape Kesler's eyes open and make him watch players passing to each other in games?

He can't dangle the world around defensemen and it's getting old real quick.

I fully agree, I don't want to bash a player coming of injury, but I can understand if he was playing like crap, but he is just playing so selfishly. His give and go is just bank it of the boards to himself, you can be a shoot first player but at some stage you have to give it to your team mates to set you up.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Who is the most offensively dynamic forward Gillis has traded for, signed or drafted in the last 4 years? I'm drawing a blank.

I hope we target a highly skilled forward, even if there are some defensive issues. Kadri may have been that guy...

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm not sure why last nights game was an eye opener.

That was what... Kesler's 3rd game back and Booth's 1st. I'm not sure basing an argument for a large scale move based off of last nights game makes any sense.

We challenged a team like Chicago last night, largely playing an unorganized, non-systems based game.

We gave up a ton of chances, because we were being far too aggressive, not because we are lacking one-shot scorers (I will concede the lack of one shot scorers on the roster is a weakness though).

Look at the goals that were scored on us last night - unstoppable shot from Hossa, screened shot by Sharp, and a very skilled move by Hossa, facillitated by poor defensive play.

Yes the Hawks could have and maybe should have had more, but their supreme skills didn't net them any more goals than we got, right?

People are down on Kesler, I won't get into it too far, but I don't think its fair at this point.

We have to imagine Booth in regular game shape probably at least gets a couple shots off or scoring chances on his two mini-breakaways he created last night.

I definitely don't feel the doom & gloom that some are feeling after last nights game, it's pretty clear we aren't even close to firing on all cylinders...it's pretty telling to me, that playing this exact team two weeks ago we held them to 1 goal in 65 minutes, that last nights game wasn't the Canucks at even close to their best.

If the next 10 games resemble last nights, then I might agree a bit of a larger scale shake-up could be in order, as of now I just don't see it.

The Canucks are good enough to beat any team, any night. Right now there is just too much uncertainty, unfamiliarity, and chemistry issues (due to needing to integrate 2 key forwards back into the roster).

In all fairness, you also have to give to get, and I can't see the team being prepared to move Jensen, Edler, Kassian, and they most certainly aren't moving Kesler, Burrows, and the Twins, so what upgrade are we going to get moving Raymond, Booth or Ballard? I can't see a realistic one on the horizon.

It's the last point that hit things home. The team doesn't have the pieces to make a move for big piece. Not anyone that can be realistically acquired.

That was the worst game I've seen them play in years. 30 scoring chances against. A very poor game from a supposed veteran team thinking they are playing well...

 

[Alexistheman]

Who is the most offensively dynamic forward Gillis has traded for, signed or drafted in the last 4 years? I'm drawing a blank.

I hope we target a highly skilled forward, even if there are some defensive issues. Kadri may have been that guy...

So AV can stick him to the bench because he cant play both ends of the ice?

 

[Drop the Sopel]

So AV can stick him to the bench because he cant play both ends of the ice?

Hodgson played...

I'm not talking about bringing in a defensive nightmare. Just a guy that is known for his puck skills and creativity.

Gillis seems to be avoiding dynamic offensive players like the plague. Not sure if it's just a coincidence, or if it's part of a bigger plan.

Other than Niklas Jensen, I can't recall the last player with high end skill we targeted, in any capacity.

 

[biturbo19]

I doubt Buffalo has much interest in moving Ehrhoff given that they've already paid out nearly half the salary of his contract and have an $8.5M or so cap penalty sitting there.

Yeah. Not only have they paid all that cash at the outset and have that potential cap penalty hanging over the whole thing...he's also been one of their best defencemen this year as well. Really don't think they'd be looking to move him.

Nor would Gillis be the sort of guy to go back on his decision like that. He's far too stubborn a GM to doubt himself and ultimately cave to Ehrhoff's demands now.

I don't know how he would mesh with the room, but a guy like Konopka could be a good fit for what some are looking for on the 4th line. Very good left-handed facoeffs (57% this year, 58.9% last year), extremely physical (some would say a goon). Is he the definition of a plug offensively? Sure. But he also pushes the play forward so far this season (28.1% offensive zone start, 45.3% finish) and had good numbers with Ottawa in the playoffs last season.

Also to piggyback on another point brought up, I think Garrison-Tanev would be a great pairing as I think Tanev plays a similar low-event game to Mike Weaver who Garrison had a lot of success with in Florida. I think they aren't doing that right now because they are in a way "showcasing" Ballard for a trade and also because there isn't exactly a good history with a Ballard-Bieka pairing.

I'm not a big fan of Konopka and i don't think he'd be a very good fit here. But regardless, i doubt Minnesota moves him. They brought him in specifically to 'protect' their various young players as they introduce them into the lineup. Even if they're jettisoning Vets to clear the decks for their youngsters to get into the lineup, i think they'd want to keep him just the same.

But on the latter point, that's pretty much my thinking on the matter. Tanev plays a very similar low-maintenance game to Weaver and like you said, Garrison seemed to play well with him. If they can play as well as the Garrison-Weaver pairing, that'd give us two pairings to eat up a lot of the 'hard minutes' with HamJuice, and if we could swap Ballard for a similar calibre or better Right Side guy, you can get them out there with the Sedins often and use them to help drive the offense like the Edler-Ehrhoff pairing was typically used. When the Sedins were at their real 'peak' in production.

Who is the most offensively dynamic forward Gillis has traded for, signed or drafted in the last 4 years? I'm drawing a blank.

I hope we target a highly skilled forward, even if there are some defensive issues. Kadri may have been that guy...

Jensen maybe? At least, he has the potential to be a very dynamic forward imo. I think his skillset gets underrated at times, but he has shown flashes of being a truly 'dynamic' force at times in lower levels. Consistency isn't really there. But his performance with Denmark at the WJC for example really showed off the fact that he can be a real catalyst driving the offense on a pretty underwhelming roster at times.

I'd also suggest Demitra might fall into that category. At least, in terms of what he was expected to be. Didn't entirely live up to the billing, but i think that's what he was targeted as.

 

[Fat Tony]

I doubt Buffalo has much interest in moving Ehrhoff given that they've already paid out nearly half the salary of his contract and have an $8.5M or so cap penalty sitting there.

It was the right move to let him walk given his contract expectations, but the Canucks haven't been the same since he left.

 

[shortshorts]

I'd be upset if you told me I'd be getting paid the same as Casual Kev.

 

[LiquidSnake]

Ehrhoff still guys? He was so terrible defensively here and a non factor in the playoffs.

Also never competed in big games. (Managements words)

 

[Bleach Clean]

The fact you don't have David Booth as even a consideration for this player is exactly what is wrong with him and his contract. If the Canucks want to add a skilled, impact player up front they'll be in tough with Booth's contract on the books. Which is why I think his days in Vancouver are numbered.

That player you're refering to was Cody Hodgson. Unfortunately he's moved on and left us with 2 skilled forwards and a slew of guys that aren't dynamic or creative.

Hodgson isn't really that dynamic. Creative, yes. Offensively skilled, but not dynamic. I think you realize this when you question what was the last forward like this that Gillis has acquired.

Booth can be on the level of Burrows but he just hasn't put that track record of play up yet in VAN. Once he does, he could be in that grouping. However, even there, he doesn't stack up to the CHI top 4, just as Burrows doesn't. He would be more in line with Bolland on the other end.


I'm more referring to the Bobby Ryan types, an impact forward. But it doesn't seem like that's realistic. The acquisition cost would be immense. Kadri would have to be given the freedom to play here at C, with big minutes, who knows how he would fare?

 

[Fat Tony]

I'd be upset if you told me I'd be getting paid the same as Casual Kev.

Front-loaded like that contract? I'm sure he'd get over it.

 

[biturbo19]

Hodgson played...

I'm not talking about bringing in a defensive nightmare. Just a guy that is known for his puck skills and creativity.

Gillis seems to be avoiding dynamic offensive players like the plague. Not sure if it's just a coincidence, or if it's part of a bigger plan.

Other than Niklas Jensen, I can't recall the last player with high end skill we targeted, in any capacity.

This is why i'm higher than most on the idea of Derick Brassard as a #3C here. He's not an 'elite player' at all, but he is a guy whose game is based around creativity and his playmaking skills. Put him with a pair of guys like Kassian and Booth...and i think you've got a pretty dynamic '2a' line...as long as they could keep the puck out of their own net.

 

[Seatoo]

Any chance we can get old Willie Mitchel back?


Mitchell Edler
Hamhuis Bieska
Garrison/Ballard Tanev

Each pairing has a solid Defensive defenseman and an offensive defenseman

 

[Bleach Clean]

Hodgson played...

I'm not talking about bringing in a defensive nightmare. Just a guy that is known for his puck skills and creativity.

Gillis seems to be avoiding dynamic offensive players like the plague. Not sure if it's just a coincidence, or if it's part of a bigger plan.

Other than Niklas Jensen, I can't recall the last player with high end skill we targeted, in any capacity.

Wellwood, Demitra, Sundin, Samuelsson were all pretty skilled, but I understand what you are saying.


It really comes down to skill at what expense. Some of these skill types have shoddy 2way games so they are avoided. If rumours were to be believed, then Gillis did have interest in Kadri. That's something. It does seem though that his exactly what's missing on this team. It's just that standard for 2way play is high enough here that not many purely skilled forwards qualify.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Wellwood, Demitra, Sundin, Samuelsson were all pretty skilled, but I understand what you are saying.


It really comes down to skill at what expense. Some of these skill types have shoddy 2way games so they are avoided. If rumours were to be believed, then Gillis did have interest in Kadri. That's something. It does seem though that his exactly what's missing on this team. It's just that standard for 2way play is high enough here that not many purely skilled forwards qualify.

They were skilled, but they were all brought in years ago. We really haven't seen any of these types over the last 3 years. Even at the draft, Gaunce and Mallet in the 1st couple rounds...

Besides Jensen, have we drafted any dynamic offensive forwards in the last 3 years?

 

[biturbo19]

Wellwood, Demitra, Sundin, Samuelsson were all pretty skilled, but I understand what you are saying.


It really comes down to skill at what expense. Some of these skill types have shoddy 2way games so they are avoided. If rumours were to be believed, then Gillis did have interest in Kadri. That's something. It does seem though that his exactly what's missing on this team. It's just that standard for 2way play is high enough here that not many purely skilled forwards qualify.

I'd agree with this. There is a clear 'floor' on 2-way play for the most part. But then...a guy like Booth doesn't really hit that floor, which makes him a bit of an oddity. Nor does Kassian really, but that's a unique case as a developing prospect.


I think the bigger standard comes in the 'physicality' or 'toughness' category. When you look over our lineup...Mason Raymond is probably the least 'physical' forward in our lineup (outside the Sedins who are given a pass because they ARE our core superstars). And even Raymond has clearly been pushed in the direction of playing a more engaged physical game, taking the body, fighting it out along the walls, etc. I think that is the real standard that's being imposed here and keeps a lot of 'pure skill' players out of the conversation with Gillis/AV of late.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

This is why i'm higher than most on the idea of Derick Brassard as a #3C here. He's not an 'elite player' at all, but he is a guy whose game is based around creativity and his playmaking skills. Put him with a pair of guys like Kassian and Booth...and i think you've got a pretty dynamic '2a' line...as long as they could keep the puck out of their own net.

Columbus isn't a team I watch much of at all. Not sure how he's been playing.

Thomas Fleischmann is a guy Gillis apparently targeted a couple years ago. Him or Versteeg would bring some skill. Maybe Florida goes full tank mode?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Any chance we can get old Willie Mitchel back?


Mitchell Edler
Hamhuis Bieska
Garrison/Ballard Tanev

Each pairing has a solid Defensive defenseman and an offensive defenseman

Pretty sure he's out for the season.

 

[arsmaster*]

They were skilled, but they were all brought in years ago. We really haven't seen any of these types over the last 3 years. Even at the draft, Gaunce and Mallet in the 1st couple rounds...

Besides Jensen, have we drafted any dynamic offensive forwards in the last 3 years?

Grenier.

For every Grenier that booms, 50 bust.

And now everyone whines about the pick.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Grenier.

For every Grenier that booms, 50 bust.

And now everyone whines about the pick.

Is Genier considered dynamic, or just skilled for being so big? Never seen him play.

Schroeder was a dynamic forward when he was drafted. It seems we're now avoiding these types.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Grenier.

For every Grenier that booms, 50 bust.

And now everyone whines about the pick.

I hated the pick when it was made.

 

[y2kcanucks]

We need to re-sign Gino Odjick.

 

[deadinthewater]

We need to re-sign Gino Odjick.

LOL that avatar.

 

[me2]

So AV can stick him to the bench because he cant play both ends of the ice?

Leafs fans reports are that his defensive play has been fine this year.

 

[Jay Cee]

Is Genier considered dynamic, or just skilled for being so big? Never seen him play.

Schroeder was a dynamic forward when he was drafted. It seems we're now avoiding these types.

Saw him play lots. I really don't know what our amateur scouts saw in him.

He got almost ppg last year but he didn't look very good doing it. Maybe the result of playing with some really skilled linemates as much as anything. Grenier has pretty good stickhandling skills and speed for a guy his size, but nothing incredible. His pure "hands" in relation to ability to score is vastly overrated in most circles. He rarely gets good, dangerous shots on net and does not have much in the way of dangles. He actually does not have much of a shot to speak of.

His biggest problem is that he is soft as you get and looks like he really has some problem getting up for games a lot. He does not play a physical game at -all- and is not really filled out to his frame and gets knocked over with ease. This essentially makes him a big target out there and any rare willingness to go to together areas are neutralized pretty quickly.