The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[toddkaz]

Yesterday yes, and before that how many did they score? And okay, they just take up a spot in the lineup, are they great on defense or are they great on the forecheck or on the PK? Or maybe on the PP? Also no. We could just as easily have Jeff Skinner floating around the ice and it would make almost no difference.

I agree about defense, but attack is also a problem.


They scored two against Utah, and Kozak and Kulich did it. Now they're out of the lineup, I think. They couldn't score against the Wild, they couldn't score against the Islanders, they scored one against LA, two against Winnipeg.

Buffalo goals for 3.00
Buffalo Goals Against 3.30 8th worst in the league.

You should be able to win games when you score 3 goals.

 

[Fjordy]

So, lets take a step back.

yes, the issue is on the ice. But...the real issue is management and ownership.

We can criticize Adams quite a bit, the one thing he has done is give us a good bank of prospects. Its not like we've emptied the clip to get to this point.

At this point, I'm not letting Adams do a thing other than moving UFAs. He's lost building privileges right now. I'm going out and finding someone to help me rebuild the front office.

From there you do an evaluation.

The big decisions this offseason are:

Samuelsson: 33% buyout window closes after this summer. Keep, trade, or buyout. Probably buyout at this point. Don't see a ton of trade value

Bryam: Bridge or Long term. Does he want to go elsewhere? Do we keep both him and Power?

Peterka: Bridge or long term

McLeod: Bridge of long term

Tuch: Extend or shop with the leaning towards a 4-5 year deal in the 7M range.

Cozens - I think you can explore a trade at this point with him, but I am only interested in moving him for a similar caliber player or as part for a package for a bigger name. NEXT Summer (2026) is when the 33% buyout window ends, so you have some time if you need to go with the nuclear option.

Quinn: Probably going one year deals at this point.

Easy Deals:

Levi - Easily a bridge, no real leverage.

Joker - Good bye

Greenway - I mean, maybe if he wants to go cheap. Likely gone at the deadline for picks.

Funny enough, the season isn't done yet despite the team epically shitting the bed. 3 points out of the playoffs with 50+ games isn't dead.

The turn around is going to have to be swift and immediate though. The team has never been able to sustain a quality level of play for more than a handful of games at a time. I don't know what the team HAS to do, only that I don't trust Adams to make a good decision either way.

Well, I don't really agree, I think we could have done more.

Buffalo goals for 3.00
Buffalo Goals Against 3.30 8th worst in the league.

You should be able to win games when you score 3 goals.

Yes, but sometimes they don't do that either, and quite often lately.

 

[Jim Bob]

So, lets take a step back.

yes, the issue is on the ice. But...the real issue is management and ownership.

We can criticize Adams quite a bit, the one thing he has done is give us a good bank of prospects. Its not like we've emptied the clip to get to this point.

At this point, I'm not letting Adams do a thing other than moving UFAs. He's lost building privileges right now. I'm going out and finding someone to help me rebuild the front office.

From there you do an evaluation.

The big decisions this offseason are:

Samuelsson: 33% buyout window closes after this summer. Keep, trade, or buyout. Probably buyout at this point. Don't see a ton of trade value

Bryam: Bridge or Long term. Does he want to go elsewhere? Do we keep both him and Power?

Peterka: Bridge or long term

McLeod: Bridge of long term

Tuch: Extend or shop with the leaning towards a 4-5 year deal in the 7M range.

Cozens - I think you can explore a trade at this point with him, but I am only interested in moving him for a similar caliber player or as part for a package for a bigger name. NEXT Summer (2026) is when the 33% buyout window ends, so you have some time if you need to go with the nuclear option.

Quinn: Probably going one year deals at this point.

Easy Deals:

Levi - Easily a bridge, no real leverage.

Joker - Good bye

Greenway - I mean, maybe if he wants to go cheap. Likely gone at the deadline for picks.

Funny enough, the season isn't done yet despite the team epically shitting the bed. 3 points out of the playoffs with 50+ games isn't dead.

The turn around is going to have to be swift and immediate though. The team has never been able to sustain a quality level of play for more than a handful of games at a time. I don't know what the team HAS to do, only that I don't trust Adams to make a good decision either way.

The problem is that we have zero evidence that the actual owner of the Sabres thinks this way.

 

[toddkaz]

Well, I don't really agree, I think we could have done more.


Yes, but sometimes they don't do that either, and quite often lately.

Cozens and Quinn are still not the problem. Watch replays of the goals against. Its a hot mess.

Buffalo averages 3.3 goals against a game. One way is how @Beers said, puck possession. When you don't have the talent to play keep away then you have to play defense.

You will never win with a 3.3GA

 

[Beerz]

Wait, so your saying Bryson, Joker and even Byrum who got caved in last night would be able to hold their ground and box out the defender if we had a center? Not realistic.

No.. its not what I'm saying... Im saying just getting rid of Joker and Bryson isn't going to solve our issues. It is deeper than that and if you say the forwards are fine with Peyton Krebs playing top 6 center and on the powerplay than I would say it is you who is not being realistic.

 

[toddkaz]

No.. its not what I'm saying... Im saying just getting rid of Joker and Bryson isn't going to solve our issues. It is deeper than that and if you say the forwards are fine with Peyton Krebs playing top 6 center and on the powerplay than I would say it is you who is not being realistic.

I never said the forwards are fine I said they aren't the reason why we are losing. 3.3GA is why this team loses. No team will win with a 3.3 GA per game. If you don't have the talent to outscore the opponent then the best way to win is by playing defense and this team is terrible at it.

This team is outscoring Boston, Edmonton and Toronto.

They are 26th in the league for goals against.

Almost every team that wins plays defensive hockey first.

They don't know how to play defense and they always lose the lead.

The mistakes this team makes in their own end is horrendous.

No one has taught them how to play defense.

 

[Jim Bob]

The key here should be to keep the guys that have the ability to ascend to that level. I'm partial to Dahlin/ Tage/ Benson/ UPL and one of Power/Byram. Those are players that can reach another level in their game if put in the right environment. The rest should be on that table, and the next GM could do a lot of good if he uses those assets wisely. Retool is probably the right word.

There's no guarantee those players ever get to another level, though. Dahlin and Thompson are the epitome of what's wrong with this team; amazing skill but lack focus and the killer instinct to reach the next level in their development. I blame the carousel of coaches and GMs we've had that have built a shit environment for them to grow their games in. Still, those are the guys I would keep because they're so damn skilled, and I personally believe they're very driven players surrounded by shit.

The key is replacing kids that are not up to the job with solid veterans that are.

Adams was dismissive of the question about once again having the youngest roster in the league. But, that is a huge issue. They do not have enough proven vets that know how to compete often enough for a whole 60 minutes to be a playoff team.

They've sprinkled in one or two of those kinds of players over the past 4 seasons. But, they need more of those kinds of guys.

Benson is a guy that was rushed to the NHL level instead of getting a quality Zucker-esque vet to take that spot. And you get a kid that isn't good enough yet instead of a veteran that isn't learning on the job.

 

[MagnumForce2]

But why?

No clue
I guess because he played hard and scored a goal ( 2 goals if you count the one that was disallowed )

 

[Fjordy]

No clue
I guess because he played hard and scored a goal ( 2 goals if you count the one that was disallowed )

This is some shit, the guy deserves to stay in the line up.

Cozens and Quinn are still not the problem. Watch replays of the goals against. Its a hot mess.

Buffalo averages 3.3 goals against a game. One way is how @Beers said, puck possession. When you don't have the talent to play keep away then you have to play defense.

You will never win with a 3.3GA

Watch the replay of AVS game and Utah and also what Cozens and Quinn are not producing, one is getting 7 million and probably won't crack 40 points in a season, the other has scored 1 empty net goal all season. You need to improve both your defense and offense. That's the only way.

 

[MagnumForce2]

This is some shit, the guy deserves to stay in the line up.

Agreed
Why was Kulich sat after arguably his best game of the season?

 

[Fjordy]

Agreed
Why was Kulich sat after arguably his best game of the season?

Either Lindy is crazy or he is taking revenge on Adams, I don’t understand.

 

[Zman5778]

So... What was Freidman implying yesterday when he asked why do players play better when they leave Buffalo ?

That they tank it here to get out to the palm trees ? If so, that would be unethical if not criminal.

Better systems, coaches, organizations ?

???

I think there's a LOT of implications by asking that question -- some may be true or have more influence, some may be less true or have less influence. Such as:

1a.) Sabres' development system is sub-par
1b.) Sabres' organization and/or coaches do not know how to get the best out of players
2.) There is more pressure on the players to end the streak than the general public is aware of (some of that may be self-applied), and some/many young players fold under that pressure or at the very least do not perform well under said pressure (As an aside to that, I think it should be noted that few older/veteran players play well after leaving Buffalo....it's mainly the younger guys that flourish upon leaving)
3.) The front office hasn't been capable of surrounding the youth with the correct vets or the correct type of vets
4.) The front office/organization hasn't been patient enough with the young kids before "giving up" on them
5.) The front office/organization has identified the players they want to build around and have chosen poorly

I do NOT think that players are intentionally playing poorly to get to where the palm trees are. I just don't think that many NHL players have that type of thing in their DNA. Sure, maybe one or two tanked it to get out of here (Berglund, I'm looking at you.....with a side-eye to Taylor Hall)....but I certainly don't think it's a common occurence.

 

[toddkaz]

This is some shit, the guy deserves to stay in the line up.


Watch the replay of AVS game and Utah and also what Cozens and Quinn are not producing, one is getting 7 million and probably won't crack 40 points in a season, the other has scored 1 empty net goal all season. You need to improve both your defense and offense. That's the only way.

Here are the Utah goals all 5.

Goal 1 against Power failed to clear the puck when had possession

Who are these players covering on goal 1?

Goal number 2.
Gilbert pushes the Utah player into the goalie

What defensive coverage is this called?

And the uncovered defenseman shoots the puck into the empty net on goal 2.

Goal number 3....Thats just a mess. The Utah player left completely uncovered on the far post and UPL makes the save.

Yet even though all 5 guys are down low on the 3rd goal no one is really covered and the shooter gets his own rebound and scores.

Goal number 4. I don't think this even has to be explained.

Goal number 5. Utah player Stenlund left uncovered.

He then moves to the top of the slot still untouched and scores. Stenlund skated around the net and to the slot without even been touched.

All 5 goals preventable. All 5 goals defensive lapses. Awful defensive coverage again and again.
Buffalo players aren't even covering players most of the time. You said look at the Utah game. How can this team win if they don't play defense first?

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Kosak back down to Rochester

 

[Fjordy]

Here are the Utah goals all 5.

Goal 1 against Power failed to clear the puck when had possession
View attachment 942850

Who are these players covering on goal 1?
View attachment 942851

Goal number 2.
Gilbert pushes the Utah player into the goalie

View attachment 942855


What defensive coverage is this called?
View attachment 942857

And the uncovered defenseman shoots the puck into the empty net on goal 2.
View attachment 942860

Goal number 3....Thats just a mess. The Utah player left completely uncovered on the far post and UPL makes the save.
View attachment 942861


Yet even though all 5 guys are down low on the 3rd goal no one is really covered and the shooter gets his own rebound and scores.
View attachment 942863

Goal number 4. I don't think this even has to be explained.
View attachment 942867


Goal number 5. Utah player Stenlund left uncovered.
View attachment 942869

He then moves to the top of the slot still untouched and scores. Stenlund skated around the net and to the slot without even been touched.
View attachment 942871
View attachment 942873
View attachment 942874


All 5 goals preventable. All 5 goals defensive lapses. Awful defensive coverage again and again.
Buffalo players aren't even covering players most of the time.

I distinctly remember one of the goals coming from a dumb decision by Cozens in attack. You have to watch all the episodes. The same thing happened with Colorado, when Cozens and Quinn played incorrectly. I didn't say that defense isn't a problem, it is. But our forwards are a problem too, we need to shake up this swamp.

 

[toddkaz]

I distinctly remember one of the goals coming from a dumb decision by Cozens in attack. You have to watch all the episodes. The same thing happened with Colorado, when Cozens and Quinn played incorrectly. I didn't say that defense isn't a problem, it is. But our forwards are a problem too, we need to shake up this swamp.

This is the goal where Cozens had a two on one and made a bad play but that still leaves 3 sabres players back.

Not scoring on a two on one doesn't make it Cozens fault. This is the goal from the 2 on 1 with Cozens.

Players miss on breakaways, two on ones, three on ones, three on twos. Its no excuse for this defensive breakdown.

Does Cozens missing on a two on one mean this defensive breakdown is ok?

 

[Chainshot]

It's not the fourth liners who are the problem. They should put Quinn on IR with cryptorchidism.

 

[Zman5778]

So, lets take a step back.

yes, the issue is on the ice. But...the real issue is management and ownership.

We can criticize Adams quite a bit, the one thing he has done is give us a good bank of prospects. Its not like we've emptied the clip to get to this point.

At this point, I'm not letting Adams do a thing other than moving UFAs. He's lost building privileges right now. I'm going out and finding someone to help me rebuild the front office.

From there you do an evaluation.

The big decisions this offseason are:

Samuelsson: 33% buyout window closes after this summer. Keep, trade, or buyout. Probably buyout at this point. Don't see a ton of trade value

Bryam: Bridge or Long term. Does he want to go elsewhere? Do we keep both him and Power?

Peterka: Bridge or long term

McLeod: Bridge of long term

Tuch: Extend or shop with the leaning towards a 4-5 year deal in the 7M range.

Cozens - I think you can explore a trade at this point with him, but I am only interested in moving him for a similar caliber player or as part for a package for a bigger name. NEXT Summer (2026) is when the 33% buyout window ends, so you have some time if you need to go with the nuclear option.

Quinn: Probably going one year deals at this point.

Easy Deals:

Levi - Easily a bridge, no real leverage.

Joker - Good bye

Greenway - I mean, maybe if he wants to go cheap. Likely gone at the deadline for picks.

Funny enough, the season isn't done yet despite the team epically shitting the bed. 3 points out of the playoffs with 50+ games isn't dead.

The turn around is going to have to be swift and immediate though. The team has never been able to sustain a quality level of play for more than a handful of games at a time. I don't know what the team HAS to do, only that I don't trust Adams to make a good decision either way.

I generally agree with most of your points, but have some opinions on a few:
-I think Samuelsson does have real trade value. There are PLENTY of examples of D-first, physical Dmen who are "injury prone" to start their career but shed that label and have long NHL careers (Tanev is currently the prime example). If he was available for trade (I don't believe he is), we'd get real value for him.
-Bridge Peterka unless he's willing to go stupidly under-value long term (like $5M AAV)
-Long-term McLeod.....at the bare minimum he's a quality 3rd line center who is solid in the dot and PKs well. He'll age well and might still have a bit of offensive upside left (he's on pace to blow away his previous highs in counting stats)
-I'd actually re-sign Greenway to a shorter-term deal (like 1, 2 or 3 years)....we need more of his ilk, not less. And there's no one in the system that brings what he does, and players like him don't hit UFA often.

 

[TehDoak]

(this is why most teams 4th line is constantly shifting around 1 mainstay)

You don't win cups with an elite 4th line.

A quality 4th line can be the difference in an evenly matched playoff series for sure. But when the top 9 forwards and top 4 D aren't up to par, a great 4th line is polish on a turd.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Sabres playing at near Tank Levels now


PP Disaster continues

 

[toddkaz]

I distinctly remember one of the goals coming from a dumb decision by Cozens in attack. You have to watch all the episodes. The same thing happened with Colorado, when Cozens and Quinn played incorrectly. I didn't say that defense isn't a problem, it is. But our forwards are a problem too, we need to shake up this swamp.

Here is the video. Its a hot mess. No way missing a two on one means this is ok.

Buffalo Sabres - Utah Hockey Club - Dec 7, 2024 | NHL.com

NHL Gamecenter - Buffalo Sabres vs. Utah Hockey Club, Dec 7, 2024 - summary, stats, boxscore, play by play, recap and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Fjordy]

This is the goal where Cozens had a two on one and made a bad play but that still leaves 3 sabres players back.

Not scoring on a two on one doesn't make it Cozens fault. This is the goal from the 2 on 1 with Cozens.

Players miss on breakaways, two on ones, three on ones, three on twos. Its no excuse for this defensive breakdown.

Does Cozens missing on a two on one mean this defensive breakdown is ok?

View attachment 942878

You can't hear me. Cozens is a problem, as is the defense. Even Ruff said so.

 

[Zman5778]

It's not the fourth liners who are the problem. They should put Quinn on IR with cryptorchidism.

I had to Google the last word. I had water in my mouth. My monitor is now VERY clean.

 

[toddkaz]

You can't hear me. Cozens is a problem, as is the defense. Even Ruff said so.

I don't disagree but you can have problems and still win. You can have problems and lose. No team is perfect but this team isn't going to win unless the team starts playing defense.

If we look at the video last night I bet we see horrendous defensive breakdowns that shouldn't happen

 

[Chainshot]

I had to Google the last word. I had water in my mouth. My monitor is now VERY clean.

You're welcome.