The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Zman5778]

You don't win cups with an elite 4th line.

A quality 4th line can be the difference in an evenly matched playoff series for sure. But when the top 9 forwards and top 4 D aren't up to par, a great 4th line is polish on a turd.

Your first 2 statements are directly opposed to each other -- once you get into the Conference Finals and Cup Finals, the matchups become evenly matched practically by definition. An elite 4th line CAN be the difference to winning those series.....and thus a Cup.

However, you're absolutely right that an elite 4th line means NOTHING if the higher-up talent on your team isn't up to snuff.

 

[Fjordy]

I don't disagree but you can have problems and still win. You can have problems and lose. No team is perfect but this team isn't going to win unless the team starts playing defense.

If we look at the video last night I bet we see horrendous defensive breakdowns that shouldn't happen

I'm not denying it, yes, we need a different defense and new defensive coach.

But our attack is crap too, that's just a fact. Look at some players' stats and metrics, and they've been playing in the top 6 for almost the entire season.

 

[toddkaz]

I'm not denying it, yes, we need a different defense and new defensive coach.

But our attack is crap too, that's just a fact. Look at some players' stats and metrics, and they've been playing in the top 6 for almost the entire season.

Here is goal number 2 in the Detroit game. See a pattern here? 4 players covering no one with the Detroit player alone in front and scores. You can teach defense you can't teach offense. Isn't that how the saying goes? I am not going to post anymore goals because you see where this is going. Yes, Quinn sucks, yes, Cozens sucks but you can still play defense. Who is teaching this tiny box to them? This positioning doesn't even make sense. We have dumb players.

You're welcome.

When you posted this I thought Adams got fired

 

[Chainshot]

Here is goal number 2 in the Detroit game. See a pattern here? 4 players covering no one with the Detroit player alone in front and scores. You can teach defense you can't teach offense. Isn't that how the saying goes? I am not going to post anymore goals because you see where this is going. Yes, Quinn sucks, yes, Cozens sucks but you can still play defense. Who is teaching this tiny box to them? This positioning doesn't even make sense. We have dumb players.
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When you posted this I thought Adams got fired

Sadly, I don't have that sort of power.

 

[Fjordy]

Here is goal number 2 in the Detroit game. See a pattern here? 4 players covering no one with the Detroit player alone in front and scores. You can teach defense you can't teach offense. Isn't that how the saying goes? I am not going to post anymore goals because you see where this is going. Yes, Quinn sucks, yes, Cozens sucks but you can still play defense. Who is teaching this tiny box to them? This positioning doesn't even make sense. We have dumb players.
View attachment 942882

Well either they are unteachable or our defensive coach sucks, maybe both.

 

[oldgoalie]

Well either they are unteachable or our defensive coach sucks, maybe both.

they have no hockey sense. none. how could they, when they repeatedly do stupid shit?

 

[TehDoak]

Your first 2 statements are directly opposed to each other -- once you get into the Conference Finals and Cup Finals, the matchups become evenly matched practically by definition. An elite 4th line CAN be the difference to winning those series.....and thus a Cup.

However, you're absolutely right that an elite 4th line means NOTHING if the higher-up talent on your team isn't up to snuff.

Not really. What I meant is that your 4th line is the reason you win the cup. Its your top 3 lines being elite, good defense, and a good goaltending. Your 4th line CAN make a difference, but the others have to correct first.

This summer I called what the Sabres were doing was mostly fixing micro issues while hoping the macro issues resolved themselves.

Our 4th line has been fine. Its the other 3 lines and defense that have consistently been the problem

 

[oldgoalie]

Not really. What I meant is that your 4th line is the reason you win the cup. Its your top 3 lines being elite, good defense, and a good goaltending. Your 4th line CAN make a difference, but the others have to correct first.

This summer I called what the Sabres were doing was mostly fixing micro issues while hoping the macro issues resolved themselves.

Our 4th line has been fine. Its the other 3 lines and goaltending that have consistently been the problem

FTFY

 

[Fjordy]

they have no hockey sense. none. how could they, when they repeatedly do stupid shit?

Not necessarily, but Power and Byram are not good defensive players, and Jokiharju and Bryson are just not good players. Gilbert and Clifton really lack hockey sense. We only have Dahlin, and then our defense is in trouble. So the addition of Byram was very strange, especially when Adams didn’t even think to find a reliable partner for Power.

 

[toddkaz]

Well either they are unteachable or our defensive coach sucks, maybe both.

I think we both agree on the issues I just feel defense is a bigger issue where you feel its offense.

I guess its safe to say there are a lot of issues.

 

[DeletedUser539]

As long as pegula remains in buffalo we will never win a championship either team look at eichel reinhart and o'reilly instant winners

As long as pegula remains in buffalo we will never win a championship either team look at eichel reinhart and o'reilly instant winners pegula is a problem and we need him to sell only thing to do would be to boycott the sabres entirely and protest pegula outside the arena at gametime if we ever want the playoffs again.

 

[Beerz]

Smart thing to do is waive Krebs and let Kozak keep the 4th line honest.

 

[dickiedunnwrotethis]

Here is goal number 2 in the Detroit game. See a pattern here? 4 players covering no one with the Detroit player alone in front and scores. You can teach defense you can't teach offense. Isn't that how the saying goes? I am not going to post anymore goals because you see where this is going. Yes, Quinn sucks, yes, Cozens sucks but you can still play defense. Who is teaching this tiny box to them? This positioning doesn't even make sense. We have dumb players.
View attachment 942882


When you posted this I thought Adams got fired

That saying is partly true. You can teach defense. If there's the willingness to learn. And the capacity to learn. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they possess the former. As for the latter, you answered that question with your last sentence.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

I disagree with this take a bit.

This is how Power, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Cozens, Levi, etc. should be shepherd into the league. If we gave these kids more time to bake, and brought them in when they were ready in relation to their NHL peers, rather than roster deficiencies we would be in better place.

As vet contracts expire and prospects getting closer to their potential is exactly how you want to bring these kids into the league.

Not to reminisce, but this was one of the positives of Regier/Ruff's prior tenure.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Smart thing to do is waive Krebs and let Kozak keep the 4th line honest.

Krebs is likely a trade piece (not a lot but still) at some point.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Krebs is likely a trade piece (not a lot but still) at some point.

Call me crazy, but I don't really have much interest in trading Krebs. He seems like a guy who somebody needs to help shore up the bottom of their roster and the return seems like a bunch of "maybe someday" prospects. Which we are already loaded with.

Rather a guy like Krebs seems to be a player who is playing the game the "right way" even though he isn't skilled. He is a guy I am happy to keep on the 4th league to help shepherd the next group of prospects into the league.

It is time to start protecting UPL, Benson, Peterka, Dahlin and Thompson with more players like Greenway, Krebs, etc. and doing the same for guys like Kulich and Kozak in the AHL. Let them bake until they are ready.

The roster isn't good enough to move Krebs. (which sounds crazy I know)

 

[Zman5778]

Call me crazy, but I don't really have much interest in trading Krebs. He seems like a guy who somebody needs to help shore up the bottom of their roster and the return seems like a bunch of "maybe someday" prospects. Which we are already loaded with.

Rather a guy like Krebs seems to be a player who is playing the game the "right way" even though he isn't skilled. He is a guy I am happy to keep on the 4th league to help shepherd the next group of prospects into the league.

Krebs' career path to me seems eerily similar to Danny Paille's. First round pick who "busted" when placed against expectations.......but was a solid 4th line contributor who played 582 NHL games and was a key 4th liner on a Cup-winning team.

I don't think Krebs will ever hit the offensive heights that many pegged him for.....but I do think he's going to become a prototypical new-age 4th liner: Good at faceoffs, good defensively, some abrasiveness, quick, fast, aggravating.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

Krebs' career path to me seems eerily similar to Danny Paille's. First round pick who "busted" when placed against expectations.......but was a solid 4th line contributor who played 582 NHL games and was a key 4th liner on a Cup-winning team.

I don't think Krebs will ever hit the offensive heights that many pegged him for.....but I do think he's going to become a prototypical new-age 4th liner: Good at faceoffs, good defensively, some abrasiveness, quick, fast, aggravating.

Totally agree.

 

[Fjordy]

Krebs isn't a problem when he's in the bottom 6 or specifically on the fourth line, but we just don't have enough good players in the top 6 while guys like Cozens, Peterka and Quinn don't do much and don't help the scoring. We just don't have 2C now, like we did during Eichel's time after ROR trade. We had Sobotka, MoJo, and someone else playing there.

 

[Zman5778]

Krebs isn't a problem when he's in the bottom 6 or specifically on the fourth line, but we just don't have enough good players in the top 6 while guys like Cozens, Peterka and Quinn don't do much and don't help the scoring. We just don't have 2C now, like we did during Eichel's time after ROR trade. We had Sobotka, MoJo, and someone else playing there.

There aren't a lot of teams that can win consistently if half of their top 6 are invisible/not producing.

 

[Dreakon13]

Here is goal number 2 in the Detroit game. See a pattern here? 4 players covering no one with the Detroit player alone in front and scores. You can teach defense you can't teach offense. Isn't that how the saying goes? I am not going to post anymore goals because you see where this is going. Yes, Quinn sucks, yes, Cozens sucks but you can still play defense. Who is teaching this tiny box to them? This positioning doesn't even make sense. We have dumb players.
View attachment 942882

I don't want to bring video games into this, but just a thought experiment. I find myself getting out of position a lot playing NHL online with random people because I don't trust anyone I play with to be good. Always kinda leaves me halfway between where I'm supposed to be, and halfway (or full way) where someone else is supposed to be to cover for them when the inevitable happens.

With the way this group... even the "best" players... are regularly losing 50/50 battles (or not even trying), I wonder how much of the defensive stupidity comes from a lack of confidence in eachother.

 

[Fjordy]

There aren't a lot of teams that can win consistently if half of their top 6 are invisible/not producing.

Yes, add to this the chaos in defense that Adams specifically created.

 

[Chainshot]

I don't want to bring video games into this, but just a thought experiment. I find myself getting out of position a lot playing NHL online with random people because I don't trust anyone I play with to be good. Always kinda leaves me halfway between where I'm supposed to be, and halfway (or full way) where someone else is supposed to be to cover for them when the inevitable happens.

With the way this group... even the "best" players... are regularly losing 50/50 battles (or not even trying), I wonder how much of the defensive stupidity comes from a lack of confidence in eachother.

It's a lot of it - it's part of why players move to someone else's location on the ice, particularly among the defensemen. There is a lack of confidence in one's teammates at play for sure.

 

[toddkaz]

I don't want to bring video games into this, but just a thought experiment. I find myself getting out of position a lot playing NHL online with random people because I don't trust anyone I play with to be good. Always kinda leaves me halfway between where I'm supposed to be, and halfway (or full way) where someone else is supposed to be to cover for them when the inevitable happens.

With the way this group... even the "best" players... are regularly losing 50/50 battles (or not even trying), I wonder how much of the defensive stupidity comes from a lack of confidence in eachother.

Yeah there is an issue I think deeper than just individual skill. They don't play together as a team.

They did in 2022 and you can see the difference. I thought Lindy would coach the "bad habits" out of them but it hasn't happened. A lot of it does seem phycological. It feels like the talent is there to be a good team but they don't play together as a team.

Its probably why our good players move on from Buffalo and have great seasons. Its also why I wouldn't give up on certain players yet. We would be selling Cozens for pennies on the dollar and he will probably be the next guy to win the cup. Its a mess on the ice here while other teams have their shit together.

Didn't they have a motivational speaker back in 05-06? Maybe they need to bring one back? Tony Robbins?

 

[slip]

Krebs' career path to me seems eerily similar to Danny Paille's. First round pick who "busted" when placed against expectations.......but was a solid 4th line contributor who played 582 NHL games and was a key 4th liner on a Cup-winning team.

I don't think Krebs will ever hit the offensive heights that many pegged him for.....but I do think he's going to become a prototypical new-age 4th liner: Good at faceoffs, good defensively, some abrasiveness, quick, fast, aggravating.

Krebs on the 4th line doing basic hockey things in limited minutes is almost serviceable.

Krebs centering the second line in an offensive role is the stuff of nightmares.

I think the Paille comparison is generous.