Teams in Cap Hell for 2023/2024

[bossram]

Vancouver cap situation is actually quite ugly it’s fascinating. I get there’s a way out of it but it’s obviously something that can’t be ignored.

Delusioned homers keep wanting to conjure up magic solutions to the Canucks cap problems. It's quite sad.

The team is all-in to make the playoffs. Icing a cap-compliant team, which literally every team does, is a hilariously low bar to judge Allvin/JR by. Just pathetic. This club has shown their only goal is to scrape into the playoffs. They need to actually get better to do that, and they have no cap space, no quality prospects, and a draft pick deficit. Just a horrible situation.

They think Tyler Myers will just disappear in the offseason after his bonus is paid. The bonus is paid Sept. 15, well after most teams will have the majority of their roster set, and well after most of the major moves available to the Canucks will have passed them by. He also has an NTC that will almost certainly bar trades to the cap floor teams.

But the homer goggles blind all irrational fans.

I enjoy someone is arguing that Vancouver can add cheap players and be fine. As if they’re running back a cup contender.

It's pathetic. Utterly sad. Apparently the bar to being a well-run team is just to ice a legally cap-compliant team - which literally every club accomplishes every season.

They actually need to improve. They have no cap space and no assets to facilitate doing that. Homers can't understand that though.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Delusioned homers keep wanting to conjure up magic solutions to the Canucks cap problems. It's quite sad.

The team is all-in to make the playoffs. Icing a cap-compliant team, which literally every team does, is a hilariously low bar to judge Allvin/JR by. Just pathetic. This club has shown their only goal is to scrape into the playoffs. They need to actually get better to do that, and they have no cap space, no quality prospects, and a draft pick deficit. Just a horrible situation.

They think Tyler Myers will just disappear in the offseason after his bonus is paid. The bonus is paid Sept. 15, well after most teams will have the majority of their roster set, and well after most of the major moves available to the Canucks will have passed them by. He also has an NTC that will almost certainly bar trades to the cap floor teams.

But the homer goggles blind all irrational fans.


It's pathetic. Utterly sad. Apparently the bar to being a well-run team is just to ice a legally cap-compliant team - which literally every team accomplishes every season.

They actually need to improve. They have no cap space and no assets to facilitate doing that. Homers can't understand that though.

Careful, or you’ll get an all caps reply.

 

[OilersFanatics505]

Lmao another Canucks fan driveby. A useful discussion is that RNH creates a bigger hole than he can fill at 5M?

I get that the guy had a poor playoff showing, but if you think you can improve on RNH in UFA or trade for the same cap hit, I'd like to hear this solution.

Bouchard is going to take Yamo's money and be bridged. As it stands the aggregate cap hit of 76.6M (not sure where the 77.4M comes from) has 7D on it (without Bouch) which makes no sense. Kostin, Bjug, Bouch, McLeod will be resigned but if one of those is gone it's Bjug, the others are RFA. Niemo and VD fight to the death for the 7D rotation and you would hope that Bouch takes the next step and can figure himself out away from Ekholm so we can put Broberg there. That puts Kulak/Ceci on the bottom pair with odd minutes from one of the aforementioned.

Yamo, Shore, Janmark, and Ryan are gone. If we could keep one I'd opt for Ryan on the cheap because he has more utility than the others and that puts you at 12F, highly doubt he's getting a meaningful raise in UFA at 36. The team can finally bank capspace because Klefbom is gone and we don't need to limp around in the LTIR pool all season anymore so there are legitimate trade deadline options with retention.

LOLNURSETHO!

I took the RNH and Kane comments to mean that you aren’t going to find the same production for their respective cap hits.

 

[theguardianII]

What type of players do they need to fill with those 4 spots, is it top end or depth?

GO LOOK IT UP

LAST TIME I CHECKED IT WAS BOTTOM 3 FORWARDS AND DEPTH DMEN

Learn to accept when you're wrong, this getting really pathetic

What a laugh, that's a joke right?

ONLY NEED DEPTH DMEN? Really? Who?

Only bottom 3 forwards? What about the declared 3rd line center, although I think it should be a 2nd line center.

Pathetic? Do you think quantity or quality?

What I posted was facts, no emotional dreams or fantasies, i even included as things stand NOW.

As far as an admission of being wrong dare I say ditto?

I say the facts show they are over the cap and you hope they do things they haven't done yet to get under.

I point out they are the ONLY team in the league that is currently over the cap shown by Cap Friendly and you say just get anyone for roster players but they are still over the cap.

And just for clarify, when a team can’t make improvements and has to rely on cap minimum players/LTIR to fill out a roster. They are indeed in cap trouble (Vancouver)

In your effort to get the magic "gotcha" you just take snippets of info and do no research.

ALL OF THEIR TOP END PLAYERS ARE SIGNED.

Which defencemen are you meaning?

Most teams have 4-5 players in depth roles and bottom 3 making league minimum, and this is all they need the cap room for. You think they are in cap trouble because they want to sign Kyle Burroughs to a 6 year 8 mil contract?

You think Aman is going to garner 4 years at 5 mil?
'
Jesus do some damn research before you respond

But they are over so even one single league minimum contract puts them over.

Do you understand they can't be more than 10% over the cap at any time in the summer? So they sign Bear to what? 750K? What about a back up goalie? A 3rd/2nd line center? Injuries do happen, that doesn't take much research to figure.

In your argument are you looking for the #1 draft pick next year?

The team finished 22nd is that good? Did you do any research? The last 10 games played by the teams that finished just below the Canucks? The teams between 21rst and 7th were a combine total of 13 wins out of 40 games, they were tanking so 22nd is even worse because of that.

The teams needs more than “bottom 3” roles to be a good team.

Now they do have some flexibility to
Make cap out/cap on deals but with how the team has performed they are going to be selling low on most players. If you’re coming off a season as a lower end team with no cap space to fix your top end, that is cap hell.

In a perfect world they can move out Garland, Myers and Boeser with no retention, but let’s be honest. This isn’t a perfect world.

On paper they are fine but do you not want to see the team progress? Or would you prefer them to just fill the roste, ice a team and stagnate another year?

Agree, there is addition by subtraction BUT in a cap world the cap space is worth more than any one player.

Ya it looks like the Canucks are in bad shape, wonder how much they give Kratsov.

Kratsov signed in the KHL. Lockwood and a 7th in 2026. Gone for nothing

Vancouver cap situation is actually quite ugly it’s fascinating. I get there’s a way out of it but it’s obviously something that can’t be ignored.

Yes there is a way out, but if they do that then they don't have an excuse to do nothing. The Benning Plan!

I enjoy someone is arguing that Vancouver can add cheap players and be fine. As if they’re running back a cup contender.

Ya, who needs another center or depth for that matter. Those AHL players sure looked good.

Delusioned homers keep wanting to conjure up magic solutions to the Canucks cap problems. It's quite sad.

The team is all-in to make the playoffs. Icing a cap-compliant team, which literally every team does, is a hilariously low bar to judge Allvin/JR by. Just pathetic. This club has shown their only goal is to scrape into the playoffs. They need to actually get better to do that, and they have no cap space, no quality prospects, and a draft pick deficit. Just a horrible situation.

Mules. Sometimes you have to smack them between the eyes to get them to move. A small bomb for some fans and then "it isn't shlt it just funny smelling roses"

It's pathetic. Utterly sad. Apparently the bar to being a well-run team is just to ice a legally cap-compliant team - which literally every club accomplishes every season.

They actually need to improve. They have no cap space and no assets to facilitate doing that. Homers can't understand that though.

Hey, I resemble that remark! There are fans and then there are fanatics. I am a fan, an educated one, actually a rocket scientist! Well no, but more educated than most of those running this team.

 

[Beard of Gudas]

Vancouver: There is talk of the team trading it's 2023 1st round pick as a "sweetener" to get rid of a bad contract. This comes just 2 years after the Canucks shelled out a 10th overall pick to add OEL ($7 mill AAV) and Garland ($4.975 mill AAV). Nightmare doesn't begin to describe what has transpired here. A comedy of errors has put this organization in a hole that they probably won't escape for at least 5 years.

Toronto: Tavares contract is looking nightmarish. People tried to warn Leaf fans back when it was signed, but the kool-aid was flowing and folks didn't want to hear it. Well, here they are: capped out, no depth on D, no real starting goalie, and staring down the barrel of losing AM in UFA. Team is in big trouble.

Edmonton: Another Canadian city makes the list. Holland's hits include Darnell Nurse at $9 million AAV and an ill-advised multi-year contract to Jack Campbell. They dodged a bullet by convincing Duncan Keith to retire before last season, but probably won't be able to weasel their way out of other bad contracts so easily.

 

[seafoam]

The Islanders are screwed, but it might work out because they will be forced to promote from within and Lamoriello can’t hand out more anchors.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Vancouver: There is talk of the team trading it's 2023 1st round pick as a "sweetener" to get rid of a bad contract. This comes just 2 years after the Canucks shelled out a 10th overall pick to add OEL ($7 mill AAV) and Garland ($4.975 mill AAV). Nightmare doesn't begin to describe what has transpired here. A comedy of errors has put this organization in a hole that they probably won't escape for at least 5 years.

Toronto: Tavares contract is looking nightmarish. People tried to warn Leaf fans back when it was signed, but the kool-aid was flowing and folks didn't want to hear it. Well, here they are: capped out, no depth on D, no real starting goalie, and staring down the barrel of losing AM in UFA. Team is in big trouble.

Edmonton: Another Canadian city makes the list. Holland's hits include Darnell Nurse at $9 million AAV and an ill-advised multi-year contract to Jack Campbell. They dodged a bullet by convincing Duncan Keith to retire before last season, but probably won't be able to weasel their way out of other bad contracts so easily.

Toronto has... a lot of cap space.

Their cap crunch comes in 2024-2025 when AM34 and WN88 new deals line up with the last year of JT's contract. This upcoming year they have more cap space than most teams. Lots of positions to fill, but they could feasibly sign a 1 year big money deal to someone like Max Pacioretty for 7M (I wouldn't do that but, they would have the space to do that and make the rest of their pieces fit) just as an example.

They're going to run back the same D they had in the playoffs without Schenn and Holl (maybe they bring back Schenn). You can say their D isn't good enough, but they're not in a crunch so to speak.

Goaltending will be cheaper next year with Samsonov (4M?) + Woll (<800K) than it has been in almost any year in the last 5. They could keep Murray and ride out the last year of his deal but I suspect they try to attach a sweetner to be able to use that money elsewhere.

Regardless, they aren't in a cap crunch at all, at least not yet.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I've literally EXPLAINED TO YOU ABOUT 4 TIMES NOW


THE POINT OF THIS IS CAN THEY FIELD A TEAM AND BE CAP COMPLAINT

FOR THE LAST TIME, THE ANSWER IS YES

I HAVE ALSO SAID REPEATEDLY, YES THE ISSUES PREVENT THEM FROM GETTING BETTER

I HAVE ALSO SAID, IF THEY WAIT A YEAR, THEN THE CAP ISSUES WILL BE GONE AND THEY CAN IMPROVE

ARE THEY WINNING A CUP NEXT YEAR? NO

IS SITTING PAT THE BEST OUTCOME, NO

CAN THEY DO BASICALLY NOTHING AND FIELD A FULL ROSTER THAT IS CAP COMPLIANT (REPEATING AGAIN SINCE ITS SEEMS HARD TO UNDERSTAND) - YES

CAN THE OTHER TEAMS I LISTED STAND PAT AND FIELD A FULL ROSTER AND BE CAP COMPLIANT - THE ANSWER IS NO.

AGAIN THE ANSWER FOR THE OTHER TEAMS LISTED IS NO. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE OP

Not explaining nor responding again. Its now been explained to you repeatedly.

You listed MN in your first post, but based on your criteria they are not in cap hell, the only impactful signing left is Gus, the RFA 1B goalie, otherwise the remaining spots are all bottom of the lineup and accounted for. Spurgeon, Faber, Addison/Merrill/Goligoski is the current expected right side D, with depth in the AHL and room for a league minimum signing there as well if they decide to go a different route than Addison.

I am sure the organization would like to bring Nyquist back but I don’t think he was really a part of the long term plans when they acquired him on the last day of the trade deadline, and he is probably looking to get a decent chunk of change this off-season. He was 3rd line for the Wild, his production there will be missed but the minutes are pretty easily filled by Duhaime most likely, or one of Beckman and Walker that appear to be pretty cooked and pushing for lineup spots.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Goaltending will be cheaper next year with Samsonov (4M?) + Woll (<800K) than it has been in almost any year in the last 5. They could keep Murray and ride out the last year of his deal but I suspect they try to attach a sweetner to be able to use that money elsewhere.

You left out Murray and his 4.7, not eligible for LTIR since he dressed for last game.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

You left out Murray and his 4.7, not eligible for LTIR since he dressed for last game.

He'll be traded or bought out, regardless, the cap impact next year is quite small and their goaltending tandem will be cheap.

 

[StreetHawk]

When is this supposed big bump in the cap going to occur? 24-25? Everything should be repaid by then. PA adamant about escrow at 6%. If the cap is anything less than $89 mill or $90 mill is that a major disappointment for 24-25?

 

[Golden_Jet]

When is this supposed big bump in the cap going to occur? 24-25? Everything should be repaid by then. PA adamant about escrow at 6%. If the cap is anything less than $89 mill or $90 mill is that a major disappointment for 24-25?

Whenever it happens just means the STH again , stuck with the increases.

 

[Osakahaus]

More proof that 82M is absolutely stupid to work around with on an NHL roster

 

[Nuckster]

You listed MN in your first post, but based on your criteria they are not in cap hell, the only impactful signing left is Gus, the RFA 1B goalie, otherwise the remaining spots are all bottom of the lineup and accounted for. Spurgeon, Faber, Addison/Merrill/Goligoski is the current expected right side D, with depth in the AHL and room for a league minimum signing there as well if they decide to go a different route than Addison.

I am sure the organization would like to bring Nyquist back but I don’t think he was really a part of the long term plans when they acquired him on the last day of the trade deadline, and he is probably looking to get a decent chunk of change this off-season. He was 3rd line for the Wild, his production there will be missed but the minutes are pretty easily filled by Duhaime most likely, or one of Beckman and Walker that appear to be pretty cooked and pushing for lineup spots.

The way I looked at Minnesota was they have 2 top 4 dmen who are UFA's and 9 mil in cap space. Dumba and Kingberg. Assuming they don't want a huge drop off in their top 4, they're going to have to spend a big chunk of that in free agency if not all of it to replace them with dmen who are not AHL players / rookies.

If they do, they can't stay at the level they are at, they will drop off materially. That ignores the other 5 forward positions they need to fill and other dman they need to sign.

If you assume they're open to getting worse, ok. But I think where Minnesota is, they want to win now so I have assumed they have to back fill those 2 top 4 dmen with some level of proven UFA talent which will cost.

 

[Soundwave]

Agreed, and when it comes to contracts, PP or special teams points are not 'worth less" than 5 on 5 points. Only advanced stats nerds think so, agents and teams dont, this is what our friend doesn't seem to understand.

His assumption is clearly that points on the PP aren't 'worth as much because 5 on 5 points are harder to get".

Yup 5 on 5 play is a better reflection of a true talent. That being said, its not how contracts are determined, a point is a point regardless where it came from.

Moreover, most high end offensive players have alot of points on the PP, its common sense, since they get alot of PP time.

If our friend's view is correct, I guess McDavid got 6 million too much since 1/2 his points come on the PP lol.

I think Flames/Canucks fans that need it to be explained to them that PP goals count the same as ES goals are confusing a few things, lol.

Everyone and their grandma knows McDavid and Draisaitl run the PP, evidence of that is fairly easy to point to ... the PP was clicking at a historic rate *without* Bouchard with Barrie instead while Bouchard was having a rough season putting up points until he got to go on the PP.

He would have a case if he was like an integral piece to the PP, but they already proved that they can be lights out with Barrie, frankly you could probably put Ekholm on the point on the PP and they'd still be lights out. The point D's responsibility on the Oilers PP is really just to get the puck to McDavid or Draisaitl and let them carve teams apart East/West.

Evander Kane was tied for no.1 in goals in the playoffs last year thanks in part to playing with McDavid/Drai super-line, did that mean he got $8+ million automatically? No, most people understand playing with McDavid/Draisaitl can juice your stats.

If Evan Bouchard wants to claim he's way better than Noah Dobson and deserves to be paid a lot more, he needs to explain why Dobson has better regular season production for the last two seasons (100 points for Dobson versus 83 points for Bouchard). I'm pretty sure Dobson would put up a lot of points on the Oilers PP too.

To be honest I don't think it would be the worst idea in the world if the Oilers sold high on Bouchard and got back a big ticket player (like a Hellebuyck) and then just reaquired Tyson Barrie for peanuts later on in the season.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

The way I looked at Minnesota was they have 2 top 4 dmen who are UFA's and 9 mil in cap space. Dumba and Kingberg. Assuming they don't want a huge drop off in their top 4, they're going to have to spend a big chunk of that in free agency if not all of it to replace them with dmen who are not AHL players / rookies.

If they do, they can't stay at the level they are at, they will drop off materially. That ignores the other 5 forward positions they need to fill and other dman they need to sign.

If you assume they're open to getting worse, ok. But I think where Minnesota is, they want to win now so I have assumed they have to back fill those 2 top 4 dmen with some level of proven UFA talent which will cost.

Klingberg was the #6 defenseman for them post trade deadline last year and was only a very marginal upgrade on the rookie Addison, Dumba was a healthy scratch for part of the season and Faber was the significantly better player in every game that they played in, though obviously he is a rookie. Klingberg was a trade deadline acquisition and not a reason that the team made the playoffs, they started last season with the same D that they will have signed (pending RFA Addison) this season except Faber is in Dumba's spot which is considered an upgrade in many people's eyes, especially cost for performance wise.

The challenge for them is that last year they started the season several million under the cap and accrued enough space to take advantage of the trade deadline, basically adding a bunch of depth forwards for only cap hits, that will likely not be an option this season, though they will still be under and have room for a pickup or two. The team will be younger next season and relies on some rookies in the middle of the lineup, so they are a lot more boom or bust. They do also have several important players hitting UFA contracts the following seasons, Zucc, Hartman, Foligno, but with cap growth, and the prospect group that's less of an issue. The main core is locked in on good value contracts.

The cupboards are in good shape, their best prospects are still over a year away, but they have several guys that are ready to fill into the team with at least middle lineup potential. Rossi, Walker, Beckman had NHL time last season, ROR and Hunt both have over a full season of AHL play and these guys will be competing to try and steal a spot in camp. Lambos and Spacek will be rookies in the AHL, and Peart plays NCAA, but they could potentially be late season options if they excel. Then they have the usual bottom line physical, defensive types that we have already seen in the NHL if injuries hit hard, they are competent but unexciting. These are all league minimum options at points throughout next season.

 

[Vukotal Recall]

Toronto has... a lot of cap space.

Their cap crunch comes in 2024-2025 when AM34 and WN88 new deals line up with the last year of JT's contract. This upcoming year they have more cap space than most teams. Lots of positions to fill, but they could feasibly sign a 1 year big money deal to someone like Max Pacioretty for 7M (I wouldn't do that but, they would have the space to do that and make the rest of their pieces fit) just as an example.

They're going to run back the same D they had in the playoffs without Schenn and Holl (maybe they bring back Schenn). You can say their D isn't good enough, but they're not in a crunch so to speak.

Goaltending will be cheaper next year with Samsonov (4M?) + Woll (<800K) than it has been in almost any year in the last 5. They could keep Murray and ride out the last year of his deal but I suspect they try to attach a sweetner to be able to use that money elsewhere.

Regardless, they aren't in a cap crunch at all, at least not yet.

They really, really don't. Toronto is totes screwed. If they bring back the Snore 4 -- which it hilariously looks like they will -- they have a measly 10 million or so of cap space to sign 9 players. And yeah that's just next year, before any overpaid extensions. Even if they pay through the nose to dump Murray, almost all of his money goes to Samsonov or someone else. They have no third line center, no second line center to allow the glacial Tavares to move to the wing, a sad farm team with few prospects to move up and make any impact, and a slow, deeply meh blueline. It's all downhill from here (not that they were ever up the hill...)

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

They really, really don't. Toronto is totes screwed. If they bring back the Snore 4 -- which it hilariously looks like they will -- they have a measly 10 million or so of cap space to sign 9 players. And yeah that's just next year, before any overpaid extensions. Even if they pay through the nose to dump Murray, almost all of his money goes to Samsonov or someone else. They have no third line center, no second line center to allow the glacial Tavares to move to the wing, a sad farm team with few prospects to move up and make any impact, and a slow, deeply meh blueline. It's all downhill from here (not that they were ever up the hill...)

Just wrong.

 

[Vukotal Recall]

Just wrong.

View attachment 711985

Sorry, I should have specified, in cap hell to ice a team that has any chance of not failing utterly (again).

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Sorry, I should have specified, in cap hell to ice a team that has any chance of not failing utterly (again).

14.5M can upgrade that team a fair amount. Point is, they aren't in cap hell and have significant flexibility to move/acquire pieces as needed. Whether or not they do it correctly is another thing entirely

 

[Vukotal Recall]

14.5M can upgrade that team a fair amount. Point is, they aren't in cap hell and have significant flexibility to move/acquire pieces as needed. Whether or not they do it correctly is another thing entirely

But they really don't have flexibility. At all. That lineup is terrible, there are almost no UFAs available and the few there are will be overpriced (including Acciari, etc.), you haven't acounted for Murray, and that isn't actually a lot of money at all to fill out the rest of the lineup with anything but the usual bargain bin desperadoes. Sure they can ice a team, but not a good one, and with zero depth.

 

[Diablo2020]

Honestly you could sacrifice half the Canucks players tomorrow for pure capspace and it wouldnt matter and we wouldnt notice. We have 14 forwards, 7 defenseman and two goalies signed already plus RFA Hoglander and Bear.

Brock Boeser 25% retained (4,987,500)
For
Nothing

Conor Garland 20% retained (3,960,000)
For
Nothing

Tyler Myers 50% retained (3,000,000)
For
Nothing

Vasili Podkolzin, Aiden McDonough and Tucker Poolman
For
Nothing

Nils Hoglander, Jack Rathbone and Tanner Pearson
For
Nothing

That would open up about 20 million in capspace.

We still have five (5) top 9 forwards signed in Miller, Pettersson, Kuzmenko, Mikhayev and Beauvillier.

We still have five (5) bottom 6 forwards signed in Aman, Joshua, Di Guiseppe, Dries and Studnicka.

We still have five (5) defensemen signed in Hughes, Larsson, Hronek, Brisebois and Wolanin plus RFA Bear.

We still have both goalies signed in Demko and Martin.

20 mill to add 5 players.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Well as a pens fan I am hoping whoever becomes are GM can navigate our cap space like the Kraken did this past year and get some talent for cheap

 

[nucksflailtogether]

Delusioned homers keep wanting to conjure up magic solutions to the Canucks cap problems. It's quite sad.

The team is all-in to make the playoffs. Icing a cap-compliant team, which literally every team does, is a hilariously low bar to judge Allvin/JR by. Just pathetic. This club has shown their only goal is to scrape into the playoffs. They need to actually get better to do that, and they have no cap space, no quality prospects, and a draft pick deficit. Just a horrible situation.

They think Tyler Myers will just disappear in the offseason after his bonus is paid. The bonus is paid Sept. 15, well after most teams will have the majority of their roster set, and well after most of the major moves available to the Canucks will have passed them by. He also has an NTC that will almost certainly bar trades to the cap floor teams.

But the homer goggles blind all irrational fans.


It's pathetic. Utterly sad. Apparently the bar to being a well-run team is just to ice a legally cap-compliant team - which literally every club accomplishes every season.

They actually need to improve. They have no cap space and no assets to facilitate doing that. Homers can't understand that though.

I'm not going to disagree with you except to say many of us are realistic about how utterly hopeless it is here. And Alvin is part of this. Mikheyev and Hronek were two luxury pieces we could not afford. We needed cap space and draft picks. He's now part of the gongshow.

 

[bossram]

I'm not going to disagree with you except to say many of us are realistic about how utterly hopeless it is here. And Alvin is part of this. Mikheyev and Hronek were two luxury pieces we could not afford. We needed cap space and draft picks. He's now part of the gongshow.

I know there are a lot of realistic, logical fans out there. They’re not the “homers” I’m talking about.