Teams expecting suspensions as 2018 Hockey Canada investigation concludes (update 7/13) up to 8 players from Team Canada to be named

[sxvnert]

It's not exactly the same thing, and certainly not the same standard the two (HC vs law/police/etc.) will subject themselves to. The conclusion of Hockey Canada will probably be very nuanced in the terms used, probably not mentioning the word "crime" even once - I'm expecting to see terms like "misconduct" or "behaviour".

If this incident happened in a rink during the play thats one thing but this happened out in public. This case should not get special treatment otherwise it sets a bad precedent. Put these five players on the stand, with lawyers and then we can all see who is guilty and who isn't.

 

[MasterofGrond]

If a player makes racist remarks, that’s not against the law in America. Zero possibility of criminal charges. Should the league be able to suspend them?

There are very valid reasons why the league disciplinary process can not and should not mirror law enforcements.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

No one is suggesting giving these players a pass IF they're actually guilty of anything. The fact that the entire investigation hasn't been brought before a court of law raises massive red flags. Instead they choose to drag this entire ordeal out for years while the media/mob slowly leak out info to ensure a fair trial (if one would even happen) isn't possible, maximizing damage to anyone involved.

The courts mean little, especially in notoriously difficult to prosecute cases like rape, which are often he said she said. Many walk free who are guilty. That is a consequence of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. There is too much smoke for there to not be a fire of some sort. If the court of law fails, things often go to the court of public opinion for some type of vengeance. OJ Simpson was found innocent but no way would I ever shake his hand. I agree we should wait and see what comes out and who is exonerated. But if players are found guilty, there should be some type of punishment even if it’s “mob justice”. And the whole rehabilitation thing is good in theory but fails in practice. If a pedophile who did 5 years moved next door to you, would you be fine letting your kids near him? He did his time and they worked on rehabilitating him, right? Doesn’t really work like that. Make stupid decisions and you have to live with consequences

 

[sxvnert]

If a player makes racist remarks, that’s not against the law in America. Zero possibility of criminal charges. Should the league be able to suspend them?

There are very valid reasons why the league disciplinary process can not and should not mirror law enforcements.

Claims of rape are not racist remarks. The debate isn't whether the league can or cant suspend a player (drugs, conduct, etc. can be a valid cause), the question is why charges haven't been brought up. People are far more content with piling on whoever is accused until they've satisfied their blood lust.

The courts mean little, especially in notoriously difficult to prosecute cases like rape, which are often he said she said. Many walk free who are guilty. That is a consequence of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. There is too much smoke for there to not be a fire of some sort. If the court of law fails, things often go to the court of public opinion for some type of vengeance. OJ Simpson was found innocent but no way would I ever shake his hand. I agree we should wait and see what comes out and who is exonerated. But if players are found guilty, there should be some type of punishment even if it’s “mob justice”. And the whole rehabilitation thing is good in theory but fails in practice. If a pedophile who did 5 years moved next door to you, would you be fine letting your kids near him? He did his time and they worked on rehabilitating him, right? Doesn’t really work like that. Make stupid decisions and you have to live with consequences

Theres video and plenty of witnesses. The truth will come out if they're put on the stand.

 

[MXD]

I don't disagree with that - but that's really only for law enforcement in a trial setting. The league can suspend players if they have even just reasonable doubt to believe something might have happened and that it may tarnish and/or hurt their business - and they've done it previously.

And being charged is a very, very obvious case of "existence of a reasonable doubt".

 

[Mrfenn92]

Was there any timeframe for the suspensions to happen?

 

[sxvnert]

There is too much smoke for there to not be a fire of some sort.

Exactly the end result of leaking info over years without being able to defend yourself. Sorry but I'm not a fan of soviet style show trials.

 

[Three On Zero]

Claims of rape are not racist remarks. The debate isn't whether the league can or cant suspend a player (drugs, conduct, etc. can be a valid cause), the question is why charges haven't been brought up. People are far more content with piling on whoever is accused until they've satisfied their blood lust.


Theres video and plenty of witnesses. The truth will come out if they're put on the stand.

likely because they can’t prove the allegations, this was already investigated and the case closed. Hockey Canada doubled back because it was hemorrhaging sponsorship deals.

The 94-page document that was filed with the court system in October provides an outline of what allegedly occurred on June 19, 2018, with some parts of the files redacted. Charges have yet to be filed.

The sexual assault allegations initially were investigated by London Police in 2018, however, the case was closed in February 2019 without any charges. The investigation was reopened in 2022.

 

[sxvnert]

Hockey Canada doubled back because it was hemorrhaging sponsorship deals.

Exactly.
"Who gives a crap what the investigations found.....the mob wants blood"

Companies/public pressure is not how a proper court decides whos guilty. Otherwise its guilty until proven innocent...the complete opposite of a supposed democratic system.

 

[MXD]

Was there any timeframe for the suspensions to happen?

It's very obviously dependent on upcoming events.

 

[Mrfenn92]

It's very obviously dependent on upcoming events.

In terms of what?

 

[MXD]

In terms of what?

Investigation reports. Possible charges and/or trial. Disclosure.

I mean if charges are laid out against a player, the NHL will suspend him in the 12 seconds that follow. Or 2 seconds if the press release is already written.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Investigation reports. Possible charges and/or trial. Disclosure.

I mean if charges are laid out against a player, the NHL will suspend him in the 12 seconds that follow. Or 2 seconds if the press release is already written.

Understood. Thanks

 

[Melrose Munch]

The mob picks and chooses which crimes are horrible while excusing equally egregious crimes that dont fit their narrative. Thats the real issue here.

This is not true man. The outrage for serious crimes like this is always the same.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Claims of rape are not racist remarks. The debate isn't whether the league can or cant suspend a player (drugs, conduct, etc. can be a valid cause), the question is why charges haven't been brought up. People are far more content with piling on whoever is accused until they've satisfied their blood lust.


Theres video and plenty of witnesses. The truth will come out if they're put on the stand.

Exactly the end result of leaking info over years without being able to defend yourself. Sorry but I'm not a fan of soviet style show trials.

You can’t put a gag on the public, especially in the age of social media. It is naive to think hockey fans will not talk about this. And from what I’ve seen on this board, there is no show trial. We have a group of players and everyone seems to be waiting to see how the cards fall. There is one player who is highly suspicious but besides him, I haven’t seen any of the other individuals tarred and feathered. People want the guilty to be punished, and the innocent to be absolved, regardless of who they are. A very reasonable stance. Once again, rape is a very heinous crime and highly taboo. It is completely natural for such an offender to be ostracized by “the mob”. You seem to think this mob is a single entity. It is really a bunch of individuals and each one of them doesn’t want rapists playing in a league they support

 

[sxvnert]

This is not true man. The outrage for serious crimes like this is always the same.

Serious crimes go to trial (as they should).

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Serious crimes go to trial (as they should).

All of them?

For all people?

Throughout history until woke mobs starting roving the streets in the 2010s?

 

[sxvnert]

You can’t put a gag on the public, especially in the age of social media. It is naive to think hockey fans will not talk about this. And from what I’ve seen on this board, there is no show trial. We have a group of players and everyone seems to be waiting to see how the cards fall. There is one player who is highly suspicious but besides him, I haven’t seen any of the other individuals tarred and feathered. People want the guilty to be punished, and the innocent to be absolved, regardless of who they are. A very reasonable stance. Once again, rape is a very heinous crime and highly taboo. It is completely natural for such an offender to be ostracized by “the mob”. You seem to think this mob is a single entity. It is really a bunch of individuals and each one of them doesn’t want rapists playing in a league they support

RAPE would lead to charges.

 

[LokiDog]

You're basically suggesting that these players should get privacy and identity protection that nobody obtains unless they're in the witness protection program (on top of being charged).

That isn’t even remotely what he has said nearly a half dozen times. I’m shocked by how many times he’s had to explain this and how many people can’t seem to comprehend it.

He has essentially said that it should go: “Players X Y and Z have been suspended indefinitely/had their contracts terminated and are being charged with criminal sexual misconduct” without having to come out and explicitly say “Player X and Y physically assaulted the victim, to include acts A B and C while player Z took pictures and cheered them on”.

He has literally said, the players can be outted for sexual misconduct without the gory details being publicized because, just maybe, as much as NHL fans may have a morbid curiosity to know just how bad it was or just who involved did what, it’s possible that the victim (whether her name has been publicized or not, obviously there’s people who know who she is) may not want the exact vivid details of her ordeal to become tabloid level public knowledge.

This is pretty reasonable, sensible and has nothing to do with protecting the players involved.

 

[sxvnert]

All of them?

For all people?

Throughout history until woke mobs starting roving the streets in the 2010s?

Twitter/forums mobs are irrelevant. Corporate sponsors, etc exert the real pressure.

 

[Prairie Habs]

When did I ever say the players shouldn't be outed? I'd say once the legal process is finished and their guilt is proven. But there is a reason we don't let angry members of the public make those decisions.

Some of y'all are so invested in this as if it affects you personally. It's kinda weird.

And from my perspective the people DEFENDING the rapists are the weird ones.

 

[Cas]

The Soviet Union was famous for having show trials where no persons were publicly accused and a careful, thorough investigation was conducted.

 

[sxvnert]

And from my perspective the people DEFENDING the rapists are the weird ones.

Defending the process not equal to defending rapists. Guilty rapists tend to get what they deserve the first few months in jail (if they last that long).

 

[Gregor Samsa]

RAPE would lead to charges.

Do do you think a rape didn’t occur?

 

[MXD]

That isn’t even remotely what he has said nearly a half dozen times. I’m shocked by how many times he’s had to explain this and how many people can’t seem to comprehend it.

He has essentially said that it should go: “Players X Y and Z have been suspended indefinitely/had their contracts terminated and are being charged with criminal sexual misconduct” without having to come out and explicitly say “Player X and Y physically assaulted the victim, to include acts A B and C while player Z took pictures and cheered them on”.

He has literally said, the players can be outted for sexual misconduct without the gory details being publicized because, just maybe, as much as NHL fans may have a morbid curiosity to know just how bad it was or just who involved did what, it’s possible that the victim (whether her name has been publicized or not, obviously there’s people who know who she is) may not want the exact vivid details of her ordeal to become tabloid level public knowledge.

This is pretty reasonable, sensible and has nothing to do with protecting the players involved.

These are that user posts in this thread :

Yeah that's exactly what I meant (eye roll)

I never said they shouldn't face consequences but how is that your business?

Sorry but the angry mob takes precedent.

When did I ever say the players shouldn't be outed? I'd say once the legal process is finished and their guilt is proven. But there is a reason we don't let angry members of the public make those decisions.

Some of y'all are so invested in this as if it affects you personally. It's kinda weird.

You're reading in stuff his posts, adding words and concepts that were never there, AND on top of that, you're calling me out for misunderstanding what's written. That's pretty bold.

After that, you'll forgive me for not really bothering about whatever you wrote after your first two lines.