The reason this is taking so long is that we are not talking about one person being guilty or not. There is a large group of individuals who could have been totally, partially or not involved, at all. The police, NHL, teams need to be sure they do their utmost to identify who to charge, suspend or exonerate without misidentifying anyone.
Teams expecting suspensions as 2018 Hockey Canada investigation concludes (update 7/13) up to 8 players from Team Canada to be named
- Thread starter ucanthanzalthetruth
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You literally just said there has been no legal determination regarding consent. That’s all that means. It does not mean the sex is presumed to be consensual. You’re drawing an inference there is no real basis for.
The law is not making an assumption about the consensuality of sex. It is merely giving a presumption of innocence when it comes to criminal action.
There is literally the whole grey area of an accused honestly believing at the time that something was consensual but being mistaken in that belief. There is absolutely nothing at this point in time to tell us this isn’t a case of they believed (and continue to believe) it was consensual and did not intend to assault anyone but that she did not actually consent. That would be by definition non-consensual sex that does not legally rise to the level of a rape conviction
I'd add that Kane actually sued the Sharks and as we found out in hindsight, he very likely would have won.
Both parties chose to settle the difference in salary between his old contract and his new contract with the Oilers.
Silky Johnson
I wish you all the bad things in life.
Where I live (UK), if i was in the players situation I would not be suspended without pay or let go.
Accusation outside of work.
Not arrested or charged.
Does not affect my ability to do my job.
Does not affect others ability to do their job.
Yeah, I'd be at work until the facts changed.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Theoretically, if women were uncomfortable with you being in the office, would this apply?
I'm curious as to what entails "affecting others ability to do their job".
It could still apply in a hockey scenario as they are plenty of women who work in and around those organizations.
- Feb 24, 2015
- 23,091
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Just my own opinion.
I think HF Boards would be best served to have these threads after the process is finalized.
All you get from reading a thread like this is wannabe legal experts and some people who don’t care about due process, only that they are so virtuous.
Nobody should take this subject matter lightly.
I believe you would end up with a better more balanced conversation.
I believe in our justice system more than I believe in the league’s integrity.
Whatever happens I hope justice is meted out in full accordance of the law.
I think HF Boards would be best served to have these threads after the process is finalized.
All you get from reading a thread like this is wannabe legal experts and some people who don’t care about due process, only that they are so virtuous.
Nobody should take this subject matter lightly.
I believe you would end up with a better more balanced conversation.
I believe in our justice system more than I believe in the league’s integrity.
Whatever happens I hope justice is meted out in full accordance of the law.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
That's why I'm here.
Troy McClure
Suter will never be scratched
No one cares about UK law. We’re talking about NHL players.
Silky Johnson
I wish you all the bad things in life.
I think, in the UK at least, it would need to be more direct than comfort level.
In any case, the other three would be enough.
The employer may go suspension with pay in consideration of the other employees comfort assuming the information is public. If not they would likely say nothing considering the UK's defamation laws.
The question was directed at me and my companies code of conduct specifically.
Notice how this person preaches a better balanced conversation but completely leaves out the other side of this. You know, the ones who deny wrong doing, how they’re crusading against cancel culture.
Weird.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Lighten up. Jared Fogle and Harvey Weinstein aren't NHL players either.
Feel free to reference Article 18-A and 18.19 of the CBA, as well as exhibit 1 - the Standard Player Contract, specifically paragraph 2(e).
Collective Bargaining Agreement
The CBA between the NHLPA and the NHL sets out the terms and conditions of employment for all professional hockey players playing in the NHL, as well as the res
www.nhlpa.com
All a clause needs to be enforceable is to not break anyone's rights, and not to be in direct disagreement with other laws that supersede the contract. Morality clauses are far from unprecedented, and generally are accepted in nearly every common law country in the world. But dont take my word for it, take a perusal around google.
Morals Clauses in Contracts: What You Need To Know
With today’s viral news culture, morals clauses have been enforced against many high profile personalities. Here's what you need to know.
www.romanolaw.com
Morals Clauses And The First Amendment In The Social Media Age: Freedom Of Speech Does Not Mean Freedom From Consequences
With jobs on the line and social media platforms amplifying voices, some cry foul, claiming that their freedom of speech guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution is being violated.
www.forbes.com
No Oscar for You! A Look at the Morality Clause You Might Be a Winner
www.verrill-law.com
You could maybe argue that the morality clause in the CBA and SPC are too vague and a given action may not be expressly known as against the clause, but I have a hard time imagining anyone would think participating in a gang-rape that causes the league to be dragged through the media for over a year isn't both not to the highest standard of morality, and not in the best interests of a given hockey club, the NHL itself, and the sport of Hockey generally... Let alone a judge that would consider it not in violation of either of those things.
Just because there was a settlement does not mean that the NHL acted outside of their legal right or authority, it just means at a minimum they calculated that settling would be more economical than a lawsuit and any effects of its publicity. Its not like having a player in the news for abusing drugs is great PR that you want to be repeated in headlines for months on end, potentially years on end through appeals.
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- Feb 24, 2015
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Are you reading challenged?
NOBODY SHOULD TAKE THIS MATTER LIGHTLY
Dismount your high horse.
Troy McClure
Suter will never be scratched
Well because they were incorrectly brought up as examples of guys who went through the criminal justice system when in reality both were cut loose before any judge confirmed their guilt. It turns out mega businesses with public presences routinely take action to fire nasty dudes before any court gets involved, which makes sense of course because of how slow the wheels of justice turn.
I read it loud and clear. You went after the wannabe lawyers and how people don’t care about the due process.
It’s targeted to one group. Maybe you should re read what you wrote.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
It makes sense because it's simple cost-benefit analysis.
Do I think mega businesses care about the victim? They care about potential boycotts of their products.
No one is boycotting the NHL or its players yet because no one knows anything about who did what exactly.
For the record, I totally agree that corporations can step in if they feel that someone is not representing their values and interests, and they do all the time.
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Gregor Samsa
Registered User
- Sep 5, 2020
- 4,172
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If this is a shitshow now, I can imagine what it will be like with the report released. All I know, is convictions or not, is something needs to change in junior hockey. It seems like a deeply rooted problem. I feel like I’m always seeing accusations, “players suspended by team for totally not rape with no details released for privacy issues”, and just problematic (and I usually hate this word) behavior. If there aren’t going to be convictions, then how will the culture change? I’m sure there are some bogus allegations but there are so many in junior continuing into the NHL, that it is eyebrow raising. If things aren’t punished in the legal system, then they need to come up with a way to curb these problems
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
It won't end with these specific individuals.
I think this is just the beginning, and rightly so.
Junior Hockey will need more oversight. If they won't accept that, then it's time for junior hockey to end.
Gregor Samsa
Registered User
- Sep 5, 2020
- 4,172
- 4,751
There are so many rumors and whispers that even if some of them are unfounded, there is enough to think there is truth to the perceived culture. I’d imagine it is deeply ingrained and I’m not sure how effective oversight would be because I’m sure many of these coaches and higher ups try to be buddy with the kids or “protect” them or look the other way
Mike C
Registered User
Bring back enforcers and fighting and have a coach say " imagine it was your sister. Now go teach this son of a bitch what time it is"
To “mutually agree to suspend their relationship” is not the same thing as “to suspend someone”.
BillDineen
Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
- Aug 9, 2009
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Devonator
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2003
- 4,838
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Pray tell.....how do you know everyone commenting here is old white guys? I am guessing most of the people here are young and what does the color of their skin matter??? I bet you wouldn't say that about other colors!!!
Silky Johnson
I wish you all the bad things in life.
Agreed that the settlement does not mean that the NHL acted outside of their authority but it means they were at least concerned.Feel free to reference Article 18-A and 18.19 of the CBA, as well as exhibit 1 - the Standard Player Contract, specifically paragraph 2(e).
Collective Bargaining Agreement
The CBA between the NHLPA and the NHL sets out the terms and conditions of employment for all professional hockey players playing in the NHL, as well as the res
View attachment 728461
View attachment 728462
View attachment 728463
All a clause needs to be enforceable is to not break anyone's rights, and not to be in direct disagreement with other laws that supersede the contract. Morality clauses are far from unprecedented, and generally are accepted in nearly every common law country in the world. But dont take my word for it, take a perusal around google.
Morals Clauses in Contracts: What You Need To Know
With today’s viral news culture, morals clauses have been enforced against many high profile personalities. Here's what you need to know.
Morals Clauses And The First Amendment In The Social Media Age: Freedom Of Speech Does Not Mean Freedom From Consequences
With jobs on the line and social media platforms amplifying voices, some cry foul, claiming that their freedom of speech guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution is being violated.
No Oscar for You! A Look at the Morality Clause You Might Be a Winner
You could maybe argue that the morality clause in the CBA and SPC are too vague and a given action may not be expressly known as against the clause, but I have a hard time imagining anyone would think participating in a gang-rape that causes the league to be dragged through the media for over a year isn't both not to the highest standard of morality, and not in the best interests of a
given hockey club, the NHL itself, and the sport of Hockey generally... Let alone a judge that would consider it not in violation of either of those things.
Just because there was a settlement does not mean that the NHL acted outside of their legal right or authority, it just means at a minimum they calculated that settling would be more economical than a lawsuit and any effects of its publicity. Its not like having a player in the news for abusing drugs is great PR that you want to be repeated in headlines for months on end, potentially years on end through appeals.
Moreover, these are all examples of illegal acts where charges where filled and arrests were made.
To date there are no established facts in this case. There are no arrests. There are no charges. And no incident that happened at work.
If the NHL treaded carefully in cases where there were arrests and charges, sometimes settling, I think this supports why there have yet to be any actions in this case. They know they don't have much of a case.
The NHL morality clause is the very definition of overly broad.
The leverage they do have is with players who are currently out of contract.
If no charges are filed, they still may suspend (with pay?) The player but the suspension will be short enough to encentise the players to accept them and move on with their career rather than litigating.
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