Tavares signing

[AvroArrow]

you actually think JT is having a good season so far ?

It's been 10 years man give it a break

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

that terrible team poor Johnny had to carry on his back for 9 years did better than we did last year as well as going deeper in the playoffs and has the best record in the league this year while adding no players of significance

and all JT has proven is he can be a ppg if the entire team caters to padding his stats while never leading a team anywhere

2017/18 NYI

5v5 Save% - .923 (league avg .928)
Team Save % - .903
Thomas Greiss Save % - .892

2018/19 NYI

5v5 Save % - .940 (league avg. 925)
Team Save % - .928
Thomas Greiss Save % - .927

Yep, it was Johnny T's fault the Islanders were bad.

Respect to Lou though for going out and getting Barry Trotz. Who knows how good that team would have been or would be if the still had #91 added to their current mix

 

[Matthews34]

I am.




How dafuq were you right?????????

By the fact JT isn't playing up to his contract this season and actually looks slower this year. The Leafs suck the season he's names captain also might have something to do with it. The harder question to answer would be how am I wrong?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Kerfoot Is the only one that comes to mind

Neither Nylander or Matthews are overpaid when compared to other players. Matthews is top 7 in scoring and isn’t even playing newly up to his potential. He’s a top 3 talent league wide. His AAV is right where it should be.
Kapanen and Johnsson got really fair deals as well.
The only questionable deal he has made is the marner contract. It’s about 1.3-1.4m too much which is the difference between having a quality back up vs what we have now.

 

[Notsince67]

Neither Nylander or Matthews are overpaid when compared to other players. Matthews is top 7 in scoring and isn’t even playing newly up to his potential. He’s a top 3 talent league wide. His AAV is right where it should be.
Kapanen and Johnsson got really fair deals as well.
The only questionable deal he has made is the marner contract. It’s about 1.3-1.4m too much which is the difference between having a quality back up vs what we have now.

Saying it doesnt make it true.

 

[DALLER66]

Tavares himself as a player is only part of the equation for evaluation. Great player and class guy and a elite #1C.

There are also other things to consider also in the complete picture.

The signing of Tavares at $11 mil set the Leafs new internal salary cap and caused a change reaction that resulted in Matthews and Marner also getting similar and now as a result of signing JT the Leafs have 3 of the top 5 highest AAV players in the game.

Now because of Cap consequences Leafs are potentially a non playoff team.. So does that factor into this question if you knew signing JT = non playoffs?

Leafs depth took a hit.. In order to sign JT the Leafs had to let JVR + Bozak + Komarov walk as UFAs as those 3 contracts offset the $11 mil you added.

With JVR and Bozak on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs were operating at 25.0 % (2nd best in the NHL) Now with JT on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs are operating at 17.6 % (18th overall) & with Komarov on Leafs PK Leafs were running at 81.4 (10th overall) now without him Leafs PK% is running at 73.1% (27th overall)

Before JT the Leafs 3rd line was JVR + Bozak + Marner and now Moore + Kerfoot + Mikheyev are Leafs 3rd line.

Just some things to think about beyond the player and his signing to also factor into the equation.

If Tavares is an elite number 1 than why did your stats say otherwise ? PP from 2nd to 18th once he arrived ? .. also note the islanders team hasn’t changed that much over the last 5 years and all of a sudden once Tavares leAves they are a top 3 team in the NHL ? Seems to be a lot of headscratching here ..

 

[Nylanderthal]

Saying it doesnt make it true.

Sorry, Austons now 9th, one point behind kaner and huberdeau. Point is he’s elite and is paid accordingly

 

[34]

anyone else think JT's return to toronto yesterday seems suspicious after we found out about Babs firing? like they got him out of the firing line?

tin foil hat stuff maybe but possible

Tavares was flown back to Toronto yesterday alone without the team?

 

[Notsince67]

Sorry, Austons now 9th, one point behind kaner and huberdeau. Point is he’s elite and is paid accordingly

That is your argument? He has a contract pretty comparable to McDavid based on the term he was given. You stretch that term out to 8 years, it would have been 13.21MM per year or 16.21% of the cap vs McDavid at 16.67%. Even a homer cant believe that Matthews is a mere 373k per year different than McDavid.

 

[Walshy7]

Tavares was flown back to Toronto yesterday alone without the team?

apparently, it was personal issues

but he will play tonight so he flew back, it was likely a family emergency i guess

 

[34]

apparently, it was personal issues

but he will play tonight so he flew back, it was likely a family emergency i guess

Interesting.

Who knows though...could be a diversion. Maybe Babcock and Tavares were not seeing eye to eye?

I guess none of us will know the dynamics of the team behind closed doors.

 

[Walshy7]

Interesting.

Who knows though...could be a diversion. Maybe Babcock and Tavares were not seeing eye to eye?

I guess none of us will know the dynamics of the team behind closed doors.

i was just stirring the pot really, it would have to be a family emergency to leave a road trip. Hopefully nothing too serious

 

[Mess]

If Tavares is an elite number 1 than why did your stats say otherwise ? PP from 2nd to 18th once he arrived ? .. also note the islanders team hasn’t changed that much over the last 5 years and all of a sudden once Tavares leAves they are a top 3 team in the NHL ? Seems to be a lot of headscratching here ..

In a Salary Cap World the cap hit of the player has a greater impact on the team results than the player himself.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I still think it was a good move.

I think the problem was trying to keep all three of Matthews, Marner and Nylander after we learned their contract demands.

 

[LaPlante94]

that terrible team poor Johnny had to carry on his back for 9 years did better than we did last year as well as going deeper in the playoffs and has the best record in the league this year while adding no players of significance

and all JT has proven is he can be a ppg if the entire team caters to padding his stats while never leading a team anywhere

Hmm I wonder if they made a coaching change and brought in an actual coach for once? Oh yeah, they did.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In a Salary Cap World the cap hit of the player has a greater impact on the team results than the player himself.

In most cases this is true. But it also limits a world class player like McJesus. We needed McJesus to be a 20M+ per hockey player. We have had 10M+ players now for a long long time. But we have to keep 10-15 teams alive year after year.

 

[Matthews34]

Tavares himself as a player is only part of the equation for evaluation. Great player and class guy and a elite #1C.

There are also other things to consider also in the complete picture.

The signing of Tavares at $11 mil set the Leafs new internal salary cap and caused a change reaction that resulted in Matthews and Marner also getting similar and now as a result of signing JT the Leafs have 3 of the top 5 highest AAV players in the game.

Now because of Cap consequences Leafs are potentially a non playoff team.. So does that factor into this question if you knew signing JT = non playoffs?

Leafs depth took a hit.. In order to sign JT the Leafs had to let JVR + Bozak + Komarov walk as UFAs as those 3 contracts offset the $11 mil you added.

With JVR and Bozak on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs were operating at 25.0 % (2nd best in the NHL) Now with JT on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs are operating at 17.6 % (18th overall) & with Komarov on Leafs PK Leafs were running at 81.4 (10th overall) now without him Leafs PK% is running at 73.1% (27th overall)

Before JT the Leafs 3rd line was JVR + Bozak + Marner and now Moore + Kerfoot + Mikheyev are Leafs 3rd line.

Just some things to think about beyond the player and his signing to also factor into the equation.

This is my point exactly Mess!!! You hit the nail right on the head!

 

[Martin Skoula]

Tavares himself as a player is only part of the equation for evaluation. Great player and class guy and a elite #1C.

There are also other things to consider also in the complete picture.

The signing of Tavares at $11 mil set the Leafs new internal salary cap and caused a change reaction that resulted in Matthews and Marner also getting similar and now as a result of signing JT the Leafs have 3 of the top 5 highest AAV players in the game.

Now because of Cap consequences Leafs are potentially a non playoff team.. So does that factor into this question if you knew signing JT = non playoffs?

Leafs depth took a hit.. In order to sign JT the Leafs had to let JVR + Bozak + Komarov walk as UFAs as those 3 contracts offset the $11 mil you added.

With JVR and Bozak on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs were operating at 25.0 % (2nd best in the NHL) Now with JT on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs are operating at 17.6 % (18th overall) & with Komarov on Leafs PK Leafs were running at 81.4 (10th overall) now without him Leafs PK% is running at 73.1% (27th overall)

Before JT the Leafs 3rd line was JVR + Bozak + Marner and now Moore + Kerfoot + Mikheyev are Leafs 3rd line.

Just some things to think about beyond the player and his signing to also factor into the equation.

JVR's team is 15th on the PP right now and he has 1 point on that PP, Bozak has 0 PP points. They have 8 and 9 points total respectively. Kerfoot and Mikheyev have 8 and 12 points respectively without needing to be one of the most defensively sheltered lines in the league like the JVR-Bozak combo.

Before JT, if the Leafs 3rd line was JVR-Bozak-Marner, then their second line was some combination of Marleau/Komarov-Kadri-Brown. The gap between the JVR-Bozak unit and Mikheyev-Kerfoot is nowhere CLOSE to the gap between Hyman-Tavares and Marleau-Kadri.

There's an argument for using Tavares' money on something else, but Bozak, JVR, and Komarov are not even a little bit close to the guys you'd should spend that money on.

 

[Matthews34]

JVR's team is 15th on the PP right now and he has 1 point on that PP, Bozak has 0 PP points. They have 8 and 9 points total respectively. Kerfoot and Mikheyev have 8 and 8 points respectively without needing to be one of the most defensively sheltered lines in the league like the JVR-Bozak combo.

Before JT, if the Leafs 3rd line was JVR-Bozak-Marner, then their second line was some combination of Marleau/Komarov-Kadri-Brown. The gap between the JVR-Bozak unit and Mikheyev-Kerfoot is nowhere CLOSE to the gap between Hyman-Tavares and Marleau-Kadri.

There's an argument for using Tavares' money on something else, but Bozak, JVR, and Komarov are not even a little bit close to the guys you'd should spend that money on.

You missed Mess' point entirely. You're fixated on the who his point is quality of depth being lost be signing Tavares.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You missed Mess' point entirely. You're fixated on the who his point is quality of depth being lost be signing Tavares.

How did we lose that depth? We either re-sign the guys we lost, trade for someone, or overspend in UFA for roughly JVR/Bozak quality players in their late 20s. I don't see another avenue of spending that money to get "quality depth" without trading assets away. We have guys who are performing the same way JVR/Bozak are for a fraction of the price. We have another wave of replacements for them ready on the Marlies once guys like Mikheyev price themselves off the team.

Depth doesn't have to be expensive to be good, I don't understand why people think they're the same thing. Do you guys really think we're better off with Hayes + Ferland than Tavares?

Here are the highest priced UFAs that signed the same year as Tavares (that didn't re-sign with their own team):
JVR, Kovalchuk, Stastny, Neal, Hutton, Bozak, Vanek, Ryan, Johnson, Kempny (do I need to go on?)

The only one of those names currently outscoring Mikheyev is Neal because he's been stapled to McDavid. Not one of those guys in an upgrade on what we currently have on the 3rd line and they're all older and more expensive. I guess we could have sat on 11 million dollars in cap space in a competitive year and done nothing with it, hoping we can get our hands on Hayes next summer.

 

[notDatsyuk]

2017/18 NYI

5v5 Save% - .923 (league avg .928)
Team Save % - .903
Thomas Greiss Save % - .892

2018/19 NYI

5v5 Save % - .940 (league avg. 925)
Team Save % - .928
Thomas Greiss Save % - .927

Yep, it was Johnny T's fault the Islanders were bad.

Respect to Lou though for going out and getting Barry Trotz. Who knows how good that team would have been or would be if the still had #91 added to their current mix

It looks like you're suggesting that it was Greiss' fault, because he had a poor save %.

I think it's more likely that his save % is reflective of the team playing in front of him.

The team is playing much better. Largely due to Trotz, and players like Martin and Komarov, but Tavares was not a very good 200 foot player there, and still isn't.

 

[Matthews34]

How did we lose that depth? We either re-sign the guys we lost, trade for someone, or overspend in UFA for roughly JVR/Bozak quality players in their late 20s. I don't see another avenue of spending that money to get "quality depth" without trading assets away. We have guys who are performing the same way JVR/Bozak are for a fraction of the price. We have another wave of replacements for them ready on the Marlies once guys like Mikheyev price themselves off the team.

Depth doesn't have to be expensive to be good, I don't understand why people think they're the same thing. Do you guys really think we're better off with Hayes + Ferland than Tavares?

Here are the highest priced UFAs that signed the same year as Tavares (that didn't re-sign with their own team):
JVR, Kovalchuk, Stastny, Neal, Hutton, Bozak, Vanek, Ryan, Johnson, Kempny (do I need to go on?)

The only one of those names currently outscoring Mikheyev is Neal because he's been stapled to McDavid. Not one of those guys in an upgrade on what we currently have on the 3rd line and they're all older and more expensive. I guess we could have sat on 11 million dollars in cap space in a competitive year and done nothing with it, hoping we can get our hands on Hayes next summer.

What about a backup goalie or capable defencemen

 

[ToDavid]

Is everybody still loving this signing? I was against it from day one and it's looking like I was right! This deal is going to be bad! It might even be the reason this Leafs team never wins a cup.

lol

Has a career season.

Has a rough 20 games with an injury (to him and to his best linemate) while the entire team is playing poorly.

"I was right!"

 

[ToDavid]

You missed Mess' point entirely. You're fixated on the who his point is quality of depth being lost be signing Tavares.

The "who" is pretty important. Cap space doesn't just magically transform into "quality depth". If you're going to make this argument then tell us who you think we should have signed and tell us how that would have happened. Otherwise what you're saying is meaningless.

From where I'm standing JVR and Bozak were probably the two most likely signings if we didn't sign Tavares. Derek Ryan was another name we were in on. Another guy who doesn't move the needle.

 

[Jaska]

Tavares was a great signing. He was a UFA, he earned it. He already took his big discount coming off his entry level deal many years ago. Something Matthews, Marner and Nylander should’ve done this time around.

Signing Tavares and then giving him the C is just about the only thing the Leafs have done right over the past year or so.

His big discount years ago had nothing to do with the Leafs.