Tank Nation: Who's In?

[jrgtml67]

So the fact that Bernier has always been considered a potential franchise goalie and then comes out this season to show that he may in fact be a franchise goalie means we should stop considering his potential to be a franchise goalie?

Our top pairing defenseman is a top pairing defenseman on nearly every team in NHL whether you like it or not.

Based on your statements above why bother drafting at all? The second they get drafted and don't become an instant Gretzky (hell even if they do) you'll just tell us to stop considering their potential an trade em for the next batch.

Hey Rob ...ya I made just one post. Leaf Nation or should I say HF board Leaf Nation needs to grow up. Tanking in any sport is ridiculous..and infact have never heard a GM come and say they lost on purpose EXCEPT Coangelo.

On Bernier. I agree. He has played great this year. He is one of maybe 3 reasons why we arent sitting just infront of Buffalo in East. His ability to eat pucks and give no rebound OR deflect tough shots up and out of play..for his age and experience are amazing. Him being hurt only put the spotlight on just how bad our team defence has been ALL YEAR ! It sucks we were in the middle of the pack and more than likely wont make it BUT ALL YEAR...all the shots against..our PK went far south esp after the Bolland freak injury incident. Then add that the only line that scores with any consistency is the Kessel line..I dont get why people are surprised. In fact I am surprised we made it this long (as in middle of the pack in our conference). I am not saying our team is bad and we aren't capable of being a playoff team BUT I am saying that what the boys have done defensively all year has been horrifying. You cannot give up that many shots, odd man rushes, and give aways in the NHL and not pay for it at some point. As I have said in other posts, maybe this is a blessing in disguise.

While Randy is not deserving of the entire blame (as the players need to take ownership as well). I feel like he has lost the room. A Ron Wilson syndrome of sorts. Even when we were winning...the guys werent playing the game he was preaching. So I think in the off season Nonis really has two choices. One is blowup the backend with exception of Phaneuf Reilly and Gardiner OR Fire Randy...OR I guess the third is a couple moves to bolster the blue line and Fire Randy. For the #3 haters...look at his stats PTS Plus/Minus...oh ya he stinks...lol he is a top the team and with exception of Gardiner he plays the most by far. His mistakes are magnified because he is the captain on the leafs. I remember the Sundin days people saying trade the bum ...thats the kind of morons that shouldnt be allowed to watch the game. He was one of the best centers for us ALL TIME including the cup winning leafs. The same idiots said Burke was stupid to make the Kessel trade..any one saying that now? NOPE !

Come on guys really....I know it sucks. I know it looks bad now but we arent far off. In fact if you go a step further we have one the of most stacked AHL teams out there.

Abbott, Ross, Biggs, Gibson, MacWilliam, Blacker, Holland etc etc...the future looks good. In my opinion we need two things bad, and that is a top 4 defence man, a pure goal scoring center (while Kadri is young..I think we have been patient enough..the chemistry isnt there with any line). I know he will kick ass when traded but chemistry is a big part..he has played on every line and no consistency.

GLG lets keep the fans guessing boys and beat the Red Winged Michigan ********

 

[Teeder9]

And the truth is, none of us have any idea how things might have turned out if different decisions had been made. And you're lying to yourself and us if you think you do.

I just realized who you remind me of. RIM. When faced with trying something different to save their company they refuse to believe anything is wrong and keep trotting out the same garbage. When told their company is basically done and broke, they put what's left of their money on another phone that is already 2 years past it's due date. What was their response? Yours. Straight denial with just another spin so they don't have to accept how much better the "different" could have been.

I have never ever been a part of the idea of tanking. Never will. While some here want to throw it all away and start again, I don't, but I understand why they would. Done right, it is proven to work. I especially get a kick out of everyone using Edmonton to disprove the method, by saying it didn't work for them, look how they are failing, while out of the other side of their mouth hole telling everyone who'll listen to have patience with this team, with an even older core.

Myself however, I believe there are some pieces here that can be built upon. My whole problem isn't those pieces. It's upper management, lower management, scouting, and coaching. They keep throwing money away that could and should be used on the "patience" you and others preach about constantly and yet, we have a 28 year old eroding average #2 making 7m until he's 35, a 28 year old bottom 6 guy making 5m until he's 35. An often injured 29 year old signed for another 4 years. 17m on three not great players. These guys aren't getting better. They have already hit their primes and are on the otherside of **** me I can't watch this **** anymore. That's the change I want. I want the desperation of the greatest team in hockey to "just" make the playoffs to stop. I want guys who want to win, not do just enough to somehow protect their ***** and a cushy job from getting booted. I want this **** to not be acceptable from the highest level to the lowest and for people to be responsible for this, not just the coach and not just to get my buddy a job. I can absolutely handle being bad for the greater good. This however, isn't the greater good. This is JFJ all over again, except the prospects they aren't trading for vets still have nowhere to play with less than 20 miles separating them.

 

[Stephen]

And the truth is, none of us have any idea how things might have turned out if different decisions had been made. And you're lying to yourself and us if you think you do.

That's a pretty generic and meaningless statement.

 

[ponder]

If we somehow manage to come back and win this game in regulation, AND Columbus lose in regulation, then I'm definitely NOT in Tank Nation. If that happens, we'll actually have a pretty decent shot at the playoffs.

However, if we lose in regulation, and Columbus win, then I guess I'll root for the tank. If that happens, we'd be very unlikely to make the playoffs, so may as well get the highest possible pick.

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

Don't even care about tanking, our problems go way deeper than our prospect pool

 

[Leafidelity]

Reporting for duty. I hope they lose every single game the rest of the year. To make sure changes happen and for the pick.

 

[Atomos2]

Reporting for duty. I hope they lose every single game the rest of the year. To make sure changes happen and for the pick.

Yup, I've arrived too. Does anyone know what's the highest pick we can get?

 

[ponder]

If we somehow manage to come back and win this game in regulation, AND Columbus lose in regulation, then I'm definitely NOT in Tank Nation. If that happens, we'll actually have a pretty decent shot at the playoffs.

However, if we lose in regulation, and Columbus win, then I guess I'll root for the tank. If that happens, we'd be very unlikely to make the playoffs, so may as well get the highest possible pick.

Well, this happened. I'm in for the tank now, I guess. If we manage to lose our next one, against the lowly Flames, then the tank is truly, truly on. Winnipeg and Ottawa will be "key" games, as both are teams that have a small shot to pass us if we play truly terrible hockey.

 

[ponder]

Yup, I've arrived too. Does anyone know what's the highest pick we can get?

Any team missing the playoffs now has a shot at 1st overall. But in terms of the worst we can finish, about 6th worst in the league, though something around 8th-10th worst seems more likely, even if we continue to play like crap.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Don't even care about tanking, our problems go way deeper than our prospect pool

This franchise could have a much better looking future if Burke didn't get blinded by toughness and trading up to gets Biggs.

The culmunation of not trading out Grabo + Cmac for extra picks a few seasons and also giving up valuable picks for Bolland + Liles is making our future look bleak.

This team needs to get back to what it did earlier in Burkes tenure when he sold high on Beauchemin, Kaberle, Versteeg. Players like Lupul, Gunnarson and even Kadri need to be dealt out next season because they'd net significant returns but aren't critical to the long term future of this team + would give us lots of extra cap room.

This team needs to quit trying to force being a contender when it clearly isn't and take a step back and reload on assets.

 

[The Magic Man]

I'm on board. I wasn't too keen on seeing them get man handled by BOS anyway. I hate BOS fans.

Not a great year for a tank, but I hope they get a good enough pick to shop it for an improvement. It's not a great selling piece if it's 14th-17thish. But if it's 10th, 11th, it starts to look appealing.

 

[Atomos2]

Any team missing the playoffs now has a shot at 1st overall. But in terms of the worst we can finish, about 6th worst in the league, though something around 8th-10th worst seems more likely, even if we continue to play like crap.

Hmm...that's interesting. If we get 1st overall in the draft I'd be all in for unloading every player on this roster except Rielly. This level of consistent choking spreads like a disease. Its better to just cut the ties

 

[ponder]

Hmm...that's interesting. If we get 1st overall in the draft I'd be all in for unloading every player on this roster except Rielly. This level of consistent choking spreads like a disease. Its better to just cut the ties

It's pretty unlikely we'd pick 1st, though. Here's the odds of picking 1st overall, based on how bad you are:

1st - 25.0%
2nd - 18.8%
3rd - 14.2%
4th - 10.7%
5th - 8.1%
6th - 6.2%
7th - 4.7%
8th - 3.6%
9th - 2.7%
10th - 2.1%
11th - 1.5%
12th - 1.1%
13th - 0.8%
14th - 0.5%

Say we finish 6th-10th worst, we'd have a 2.1-6.2% chance at the 1st overall pick. We could still get a decent prospect in the 6-10 range though, someone like Fleury, McCann, Perlini, Barbashev, Virtanen, etc. No Sam Reinhart, but could get a solid prospect.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Don't even care about tanking, our problems go way deeper than our prospect pool

This franchise could have a much better looking future if Burke didn't get blinded by toughness and trading up to gets Biggs.

The culmunation of not trading out Grabo + Cmac for extra picks a few seasons and also giving up valuable picks for Bolland + Liles is making our future look bleak.

This team needs to get back to what it did earlier in Burkes tenure when he sold high on Beauchemin, Kaberle, Versteeg. Players like Lupul, Gunnarson and even Kadri need to be dealt out next season because they'd net significant returns but aren't critical to the long term future of this team + would give us lots of extra cap room.

This team needs to quit trying to force being a contender when it clearly isn't and take a step back and reload on assets.

I agree. Plus, I see that Dallas is still in the playoff hunt and are clearly building their team around a player we could have had. Love Kessel but not sure that is the strategy to use to build a contender.

 

[Teeder9]

It's pretty unlikely we'd pick 1st, though. Here's the odds of picking 1st overall, based on how bad you are:

1st - 25.0%
2nd - 18.8%
3rd - 14.2%
4th - 10.7%
5th - 8.1%
6th - 6.2%
7th - 4.7%
8th - 3.6%
9th - 2.7%
10th - 2.1%
11th - 1.5%
12th - 1.1%
13th - 0.8%
14th - 0.5%

Say we finish 6th-10th worst, we'd have a 2.1-6.2% chance at the 1st overall pick. We could still get a decent prospect in the 6-10 range though, someone like Fleury, McCann, Perlini, Barbashev, Virtanen, etc. No Sam Reinhart, but could get a solid prospect.

The same chance of making the playoffs. Interesting

 

[Ratboy]

Let's keep the **** play up!

 

[Marner]

Nick Ritchie please

 

[showtime8]

12 games left and its time to rebuild. I don't get it.

6 games left and we should tank?

 

[DaveT83*]

Just think of all the player's we've missed out on in the first round over the past decade.


Then look back at all the players who've come and gone either via Trade or Free Agency during that time.


The monopoly this team has on Southern Ontario has got to come to an end. Its the only way anything significant will ever change in this operation.

 

[Cor]

If Nucks win tonight we will hold the 10th pick.

Go Nucks Go!

 

[JackJ]

The entire team is in. Hope we grab a top 10 pick.

 

[saffronleaf]

And the truth is, none of us have any idea how things might have turned out if different decisions had been made. And you're lying to yourself and us if you think you do.

I'm pro-tank and disagree with your anti-tank views, but you're right about this.

The Leafs are extremely incompetent when it comes to drafting.

This is a team that would have likely skipped over Crosby and Ovechkin in their respective draft years.

There is no limit to the incompetence of this stupid, horrible, disgusting, greedy, heartless organization.

 

[Ratboy]

So, for those who have been paying attention to the youngin's, what kind of player are we potentially looking at in the first round this year?

 

[LeafsNation75]

It's pretty unlikely we'd pick 1st, though. Here's the odds of picking 1st overall, based on how bad you are:

1st - 25.0%
2nd - 18.8%
3rd - 14.2%
4th - 10.7%
5th - 8.1%
6th - 6.2%
7th - 4.7%
8th - 3.6%
9th - 2.7%
10th - 2.1%
11th - 1.5%
12th - 1.1%
13th - 0.8%
14th - 0.5%

Say we finish 6th-10th worst, we'd have a 2.1-6.2% chance at the 1st overall pick. We could still get a decent prospect in the 6-10 range though, someone like Fleury, McCann, Perlini, Barbashev, Virtanen, etc. No Sam Reinhart, but could get a solid prospect.

I would like to see the Leafs win the draft lottery for this other reason besides getting the #1 pick. Assuming they finish between 6th - 14th worst with those odd's I bet some people would claim the NHL fixed it because of how big Toronto's market is.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

So, for those who have been paying attention to the youngin's, what kind of player are we potentially looking at in the first round this year?

As a Nuck fan who has been been looking into most of the prospects around where the Leafs/Nucks are (we almost all have for a couple months now) it's a weird draft.

Not many good d-men at all. Ekblad then basically nothing. Fluery is the 2nd highest rated d-man and he projects to maybe an okay 4th d-man with little offensive upside.

There's a bunch of boom-or-bust forwards who will either be good, or be complete busts outside of maybe 7 or 8 guys: Reinhart, Eklbad, Bennett, Dal Colle, Draisaitl (probably these 5 guys will go in some top 5 order).... Nylander, Ehlers, Ritchie (probable 6th-8th in some order)... then there's a bunch of question mark guys in Fluery, Virtanen, McCann, Perlini, Kapanen.

IMO most guys drafted after the top 8th would have been drafted late in the 1st round in the 2013 draft. Mantha drafted 20th last year, Shinkaruk @ 23rd... I wouldn't take anyone outside of the top 8th this year over guys in the 20-25 range from last years draft.