This is essentially what I thought 12 years ago, when LA had a choice to make (coincidentally with the #2 pick) between Bogosian and Doughty. I'm embarrassed to admit that I slightly preferred Bogosian because of the added size, but I've been quite happy to have been wrong. I think that LA went with Doughty because they reasoned that a kid who grew up as a Kings fan would give more of his heart to the team. That little intangible was judged to be more important to LA than a couple of extra inches and muscle. The point is that, sometimes, it's better to go with your gut (i.e. on the basis of intangibles), and LA is known to do that, so I doubt that this is an easy choice for them.
Stutzle or Byfield
- Thread starter Sens Vader
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This is essentially what I thought 12 years ago, when LA had a choice to make (coincidentally with the #2 pick) between Bogosian and Doughty. I'm embarrassed to admit that I slightly preferred Bogosian because of the added size, but I've been quite happy to have been wrong. I think that LA went with Doughty because they reasoned that a kid who grew up as a Kings fan would give more of his heart to the team. That little intangible was judged to be more important to LA than a couple of extra inches and muscle. The point is that, sometimes, it's better to go with your gut (i.e. on the basis of intangibles), and LA is known to do that, so I doubt that this is an easy choice for them.
Anthony5967
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Sens of Anarchy
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BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Doughty was logging up to 35 minutes a night and just controlling games while being a fat ass. Couldn't do a pull-up at the combine. If he's already that good while not having a workout regimen, then imagine how good he would be once he gets his act together in that regard. Well, we've seen it.
It's funny looking back at articles where Doughty was argued to be a finished product while Bogosian had the potential. The latter was already a workout warrior while the former was nicknamed "Doughuts", yet Doughnuts was the finished product because he already had two awesome junior seasons whereas Bogosian's first amazing season was his draft year.
Comparing those two to Byfield/Stutzle, Byfield would be Doughty and Stutzle would be Bogosian. Byfield has been highly touted for awhile and already has a CHL rookie of the year season and then a nearly 2PPG 17 year old season in his draft year. The difference is he isn't being considered a finished product at all like Doughty was but, in my opinion, it was silly to think that about Doughty due to his lack of conditioning.
Stutzle has a great WJC and puts up an awesome season against men during his draft year that catapults him up to #2OA on many lists, much like Bogosian who I'm sure was not being talked about as a Top 3 pick after his first season in the OHL but then put up a huge season in his draft year.
I'm by no means saying that Byfield will be a Doughty-level player and that Stutzle will be a bust like Bogosian but rather there seems to be a thing where people get fatigue on the long-scouted guys and latch on to the guy that has flashed recently under the premise it will continue. Hell, Pieterangelo had two solid OHL seasons heading into that same draft and Bogo still jumped him as well based on the one season and his hyper-competitive, future captain attitude. Doughty and Peterangelo--the two guys with two consistently good OHL seasons--wound up worlds better than shooting star Bogosian.
Byfield has done fantastically in his two OHL seasons with those seasons being full 16 and 17 year old ones. Then you get to toss in the likeliness of adding more strength to his frame. I mean, I'm excited for the Kings to add either of QB or TS to the prospect pool but I think it is overthinking it a bit much with Byfield just like it was overthinking it with Doughty and Bogosian.
You have to know that this is a terrible comparison. Tim Stützle didn't bounce up because his only good season was his draft season or whatever else you might want to say, he did so because hockey people have no clue about German prospects. Even before this past season, on the national team he for instance clearly outperformed Dominik Bokk who's a first round pick from 2018, and also had some 2.62 PPG in German u-20s, which is at least twice as high in scoring as anyone else his age, which does include some essentially certain first round picks.
In general I don't get how Stützle's a finished product at all, when I watch him I see extraordinarily high potential. I remember this talk with Stanley in 2016, about how he has so much room to grow, how people saw his improvement the past season, blah blah blah and why? Because he was 6'7".
Byfield has been 6'4" since he was like 14 years old, I really am not sold on this narrative about him getting used to his body.
When watching Stützle and then watching Byfield, there's a huge difference in the paces they play the games at. Byfield reminds me of Puljujärvi in some aspects, while Stützle does of Aho. Of course, different players in many regards but I really am not sure how Byfield's able to show such little intensity for being such a big player.
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Henkka
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Byfield for sure. Only natural center, highest value. This guys wins playoff series. Big guy wears down opposite teams more than smaller ones.
Stutzle could be better regular season player, but who cares about that. Target is to win Stanley Cups.
Stutzle could be better regular season player, but who cares about that. Target is to win Stanley Cups.
bert
Registered User
Pretty simple way to look at a situation that is far more complex. Stutzle is likely going to be a center in the NHL unless he runs into a situation like L.A who already has Kopitar, Vilardi and Turcotte. If he is drafted by Ottawa they will absolutely be developing him as a center. If he is capable of it at 17 at the WJC and excelling it should translate to the NHL level. He has the size, work rate and hockey IQ to be a center.
All I know as a sens fan is im extatic were getting one of them. I dont think anyone can say with confidence who will be the better player but both have tremendous upside to be the best player in the draft if everything works out for them. (Not saying they are the better prospect than Laf he is clearly number 1, but they both have the raw abilities to get to his level.)
Glad to see the poll is split, I voted Byfield due to his massive upside but it certainly could go either way.
Peasy
Registered User
I feel like people are under representing Stutzle's size just because of how big Byfield actually is.
By no means is Stutzle small in stature. Hes 6'1, and since the ending of the season he has said he has put on 15 lbs. I dont see any reason why he wouldn't be able to stick at center especially with the worth ethic and drive that he has.
By no means is Stutzle small in stature. Hes 6'1, and since the ending of the season he has said he has put on 15 lbs. I dont see any reason why he wouldn't be able to stick at center especially with the worth ethic and drive that he has.
I am following Stützle since a couple of years. It is amazing how much stronger he looked in the last interview I saw of him compared to even half a year ago. He must have been working out/eating like crazy.
At that age a person can gain even 15 pounds of muscle in a year just by becoming older without doing anything meaningful about it.
Golden_Jet
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Listened to an interview, and he said he could see playing wing in the NHL for the first season or 2
SPF6ty9
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I'm flip flopping every day between these 2 guys. A lot to like about both. The only wrong answer is "neither" if you're LA or Ottawa.
Sens of Anarchy
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LA has 2 polls on their board. Overwhelmingly in favor of Byfield over Stutzle.
danyhabsfan
Registered User
Raccoon Jesus
Draft em but don't play em
Like I said there,
I think they can't go wrong with either guy but there's a point at which you start getting too cute in analysis. Watching so many people talk themselves out of Byfield across the boards is getting kinda tiring.
As you know HF used to assign grades to players on a 1-10 and A-F scale. What do you think these two would be graded?
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
This. I'm fine whichever direction Yannetti & Blake decide to go.
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I would probably take Stutzle for ceiling between the two. However, I also don't think they are in a class of their own relative to the rest of the top 10. There is a non zero chance a dark horse in the top 10 goes #2, especially if someone starts off hot in Sep/Oct.
He pukes you die
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I initially wanted Stutzle more than anyone not named Lafreniere but after seeing so many videos and reading so much about Byfield, I am pretty torn. I think overall I would still prefer Stutzle but it is a very slight discrepancy. Overall I will be really happy with either and the Kings have the best problem in the entire NHL right now.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
That's fine and all, but until the German junior system becomes a real prospect factory, there isn't going to be a ton of respect shown to it. He has shot up the draft board because of his season against men in the DEL and for his WJC performance. For example, Pronman had him at 8OA to being the season but now has him at 3. I'm not saying it is undeserved: not at all. I'm also not saying he will be like Bogosian was relative to his draft position. It's more that Byfield was #2 to start the season and did nothing to drop himself from that spot except have a poor WJC which can be explained due to age, usage, team depth etc. I'm simply comparing it to the Doughty/Bogo situation because Doughty seemed like the slam dunk pick but then you get the lead up to the draft and there is all this steam being put behind the #3 guy since said #3 guy is coming off of a hot season and hasn't been scouted to death.
I'm 6'4". 5'4" to start freshman year at 13 and 6'2" to start sophomore year at 14. Finally reached my current height during sophomore year. It isn't going to be so much about getting used to his body, it is about understanding what he can do with it: especially when he adds even more muscle. He hasn't had to use his size as much because he has such great hands and straight line speed. You'd much rather that he has the skill to put up the numbers he does while not using his size effectively v. being a bully in juniors with his size but not having the NHL-level skills. That's why he's so enticing: elite type skills in a body that will eventually be above 220 pounds and hasn't been fully utilized yet.
That said, Stutzle might be the better player in the long run and I get the case that is being made for him. He's certainly more fun to watch. I just personally don't think that Byfield played his way out of 2OA.
I think the factor was more Doughty's hockey-IQ and the belief with pro-training he could improve his athleticism (he didn't have the best dietary habits). Doughty also had a longer track record of success. I wouldn't believe a team would heavily weight childhood team allegiance as an x-factor.
kilowatt
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I honestly can’t choose and I don’t envy Blake’s scouting group for having to make this decision. My head says Byfield but my heart says Stützle.
