Stutzle or Byfield

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here’s a “hot take”...as of the end of September, it’s still around 50/50 in the poll while the LA board is like 5 to 1 Byfield over Stutzle. Most of the Kings posters I’ve read correlate Byfield’s similar size and position with the current captain, Anze Kopitar.

I don’t see much of Byfield’s game as anything like Kopitar. In fact, my take is, Tim Stutzle has more in common with a young Kopitar. He’s just a couple inches shorter but I think how a player thinks and plays the game is more important than a couple inches.

Other than they are both centers...
1) Stutzle is head and shoulders the best player on his national junior team

2) They both get the majority of points passing and less on shooting (Kopitar is a 70 point, 20 goal guy).

3) Both are known for their skating

4) Both were overlooked during their draft year, despite Stutzle shooting up later...some of which had to do with Drai, because they come from a non-powerhouse hockey country

5) Both played against men in their D year, DEL for Stutzle, SEL for Kopitar

6) Both have shined in tournament play

7) Stutzle was projected to be a late first rounder due to scouts not knowing German hockey that much but has now seen as the overall 2nd best player available in the draft; Kopitar in retrospect has been described as the 2nd overall best player in his draft, behind Crosby

8) Just an interesting point, irony-wise...Stutzle is being compared/contrasted to Byfield; Kopitar was compared/contrasted with Malkin in his D year; Byfield is often compare with Malkin, ceiling-wise


I think this gives a lot of commonality, especially handling the drink-stirrer role for their national team, in how the two players see themselves, as leaders and playmakers. Right now Kopitar is 6’3”, 224 pounds. Stutzle is 6’1, about 210-ish pounds and can still grow a little bit. He bulked up a lot in the off season...maybe to fulfill a certain role for a certain team?

Anyways, that’s how my heart feels. My head, not so sure...I didn’t get to see a ton of Kopitar in the SEL unlike how much video I’ve seen of Stutzle in his draft year.

I don't think anyone's made that comparison at length, though. It's more about Byfield's size and physicality being like Kopitar--you won't see Anze throwing hits but you'll see him just absorbing contact and wearing people out. And that Anze would be an excellent C for anyone to learn from, that even went for Turcotte last year. When you see an ultra-skilled horse like Kopitar controlling the whole rink even behind his net, that makes someone like Turcotte, Byfield, Stutzle take notice. This is a guy with an MVP-caliber season and several Conn Smythe worthy Cup performances and Selke Trophies, and even this deep in his career, he's back there doing the dirty work. I want my #2 pick seeing that. That goes for Stutzle, too. Can only imagine Tim's elite skating and buzzsawing watching Kopitar night in and night out. So in all it's less of a 'comparison' and more of a mentorship thing we're looking at.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Byfield leading 203-202 right now... I don't know if I've ever seen two prospects considered to be so equivalent. Personally I like Stutzle because I love the way he skates and it translates into my favorite kind of playstyle, but I don't think anyone is wrong for choosing Byfield. His combination of hands, speed and size gives him essentially unlimited potential

 

[Taluss]

Byfield up by 1 with just over 400 votes. Wow that’s surprising. Almost an even split

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Byfield leading 203-202 right now... I don't know if I've ever seen two prospects considered to be so equivalent. Personally I like Stutzle because I love the way he skates and it translates into my favorite kind of playstyle, but I don't think anyone is wrong for choosing Byfield. His combination of hands, speed and size gives him essentially unlimited potential

Especially when being so different.

I love it. I think it highlights what a struggle of a decision it is.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Just changed my vote to Stutzle. I hope the Kings fans get their wish and they take Byfield. Not convinced that will happen but give me Stutzle.

 

[CutOnDime97]

This seems very very close. I'd lean Byfield just because size. But damn Stutzle is slick.

 

[Rorschach]

I don't think anyone's made that comparison at length, though. It's more about Byfield's size and physicality being like Kopitar--you won't see Anze throwing hits but you'll see him just absorbing contact and wearing people out. And that Anze would be an excellent C for anyone to learn from, that even went for Turcotte last year. When you see an ultra-skilled horse like Kopitar controlling the whole rink even behind his net, that makes someone like Turcotte, Byfield, Stutzle take notice. This is a guy with an MVP-caliber season and several Conn Smythe worthy Cup performances and Selke Trophies, and even this deep in his career, he's back there doing the dirty work. I want my #2 pick seeing that. That goes for Stutzle, too. Can only imagine Tim's elite skating and buzzsawing watching Kopitar night in and night out. So in all it's less of a 'comparison' and more of a mentorship thing we're looking at.

This is my observation, and there are plenty of Kings guys I've seen who just say they want Byfield and either haven't said much else or haven't directly said (what I mention above, Byfield = Kopitar 2.0), that in some way or form, they see the physical form as you mention above and think that he can become a good Kopitar. My point, which I think you agree with, Stutzle can do that too and has his commonality with Kopitar. And the main reason why I make the point is, that 5 to 1 ratio on the Kings board vs. 1 to 1 in the public board, even factoring in Kings votes...Kings fans have bought in to Kopitar mentoring Byfield, few have bought in to Kopitar mentoring in Stutzle.

All that aside, I really don't care if Tim becomes Anze 2.0, I just think as you say above, Tim can learn too and both could learn, not just Q. Personally I have a feeling this next team will be very different in play style from the previous Cup team. We have a different guy at the helm (Blake has no past associations with other teams where he can find prize vets to snag for cheap) and a different guy running the show (Mac is very different from Darryl of course).

 

[lawrence]

Does by field play a physical game by any means ? Does he play mean and hard game. Is he a tough player?

 

[Rorschach]

I'm wondering if I should re-fire this poll and split it out to the choices below:

As of 9/2#, assuming Alexis Lafreniere is off the board as expected,
* If I had 2OA (non-Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
* We have 2OA (Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
* If I had 2OA (non-Kings fan), I would pick for my team T. Stutzle
* We have 2OA (Kings fan), I would pick for my team T. Stutzle
* If I had 2OA (non-Kings fan), I would pick or do something else
* We have 2OA (Kings fan), I would pick or do something else

What you guys think? This would give us a newer poll since people including myself have flipflopped and also show the HFB opinion separate from the HFKings opinion.
*If I had 2OA (non-Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
*We have 2OA (Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield


*If I had 2OA (non-Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
*We have 2OA (Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
*If I had 2OA (non-Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
*We have 2OA (Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
*If I had 2OA (non-Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield
*We have 2OA (Kings fan), I would pick for my team Q. Byfield

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

It’s obviously Stutzle. His name is way more fun to say.

 

[Rorschach]

Does by field play a physical game by any means ? Does he play mean and hard game. Is he a tough player?

I've heard during his time at Sudbury, he moves fast but does not play a heavy or physically aggressive game. No idea if that's because he won't or can't or his coaches are telling him not to. From what I understand, he's a hardworker and in good shape so it's not like he's a delicate flower.

It could very much be a coach thing or something by choice...when you're the Dale Murphy of your team (Sudbury), you need to hit homers and not be in the penalty box. One thing I would love to see for Q is to get traded to a competitive team, play many different meaningful sitations and see how he's used then.

 

[lawrence]

I've heard during his time at Sudbury, he moves fast but does not play a heavy or physically aggressive game. No idea if that's because he won't or can't or his coaches are telling him not to. From what I understand, he's a hardworker and in good shape so it's not like he's a delicate flower.

It could very much be a coach thing or something by choice...when you're the Dale Murphy of your team (Sudbury), you need to hit homers and not be in the penalty box. One thing I would love to see for Q is to get traded to a competitive team, play many different meaningful sitations and see how he's used then.

cause right now if Stutzle is a tad better offensively and skill wise, puts up around 10 more points on average per season, however if Byfield is a physical beast, and hits way more and adds more toughness I will take Byfield for sure, as I've witnessed in series against the Blues and Knights and even in general when it comes to playoff hockey having physical push back and not backing down and even dishing out hits to ware down opposition can make a big difference.

 

[DJB]

Does by field play a physical game by any means ? Does he play mean and hard game. Is he a tough player?

No, no and no.

Never had a fight in the OHL either.

He will throw the odd hit but he doesn't have a mean bone in his body unfortunately.

 

[lawrence]

No, no and no.

Never had a fight in the OHL either.

He will throw the odd hit but he doesn't have a mean bone in his body unfortunately.

so lots of friendly bones? who do Sens fans prefer?

 

[DJB]

so lots of friendly bones? who do Sens fans prefer?

We are pretty split truthfully and are happy with either.

 

[Rorschach]

cause right now if Stutzle is a tad better offensively and skill wise, puts up around 10 more points on average per season, however if Byfield is a physical beast, and hits way more and adds more toughness I will take Byfield for sure, as I've witnessed in series against the Blues and Knights and even in general when it comes to playoff hockey having physical push back and not backing down and even dishing out hits to ware down opposition can make a big difference.

That makes both of us...but it seems to be a common criticism that he neither initiates contact nor is he someone who can take hits either. He’d rather skate past people.

 

[Samsquanch]

That makes both of us...but it seems to be a common criticism that he neither initiates contact nor is he someone who can take hits either. He’d rather skate past people.

He cant take a hit now? Yet another complete myth from what sounds like a person whos never seen him play before. Call me shocked

Pretty sure that mostly everyone, like all the scouts, agree that hes not out crushing guys like he technically could be -but hes strong like an ox on his skates and hard to knock off the puck. He can absolutely take a hit, and he goes to both the corners and the front of the net to battle on a very regular basis.

And I mean basically every talented hockey player would normally choose to skate around someone rather than try to go right through them, even more so if they're elite skaters like Byfield is...and as if this "problem" is unique to him btw...

But besides that he is absolutely not shy about attacking the middle of the ice, this is not a perimeter player whatsoever. Hes very much like Malkin in that he regularly has guys hanging off his back while hes cutting through the middle of the ice with power, speed and soft hands.

Could he hit more? Sure, I would guess that most skilled players are technically guilty of that. But this isnt a soft big man at all. Thats not even close to an accurate description of him. His physical game is a lot like the one we see from Matthews in many ways tbh - which is not really a problem at all in actuality.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I feel like people look at the Byfield and see similarities to Lindros due to size. Lindros was the more effective of the two at utilizing his size. But it came with a great cost in concussions. And Byfield seems to be a better skater and better in transition. I could be wrong but my lasting memories of Lindros is working the cycle, not playing in transition.

So Byfield isn’t like Lindros. From the standpoint of asset preservation, is that so bad? It doesn’t mean he can never use his size. But does he really need to be more like Lindros? I’m not so sure.

Having said that, of the two (Stützle or Byfield), I’d take Stützle any day all day. I feel he’s better at making others better. I wouldn’t be surprised if 5 years from now, we’re looking at Stützle as the best player from this draft. It’s possible that part of this is Laf and Byf having been overscouted and I could be wrong.

 

[Rorschach]

Edit: I reread your post and now I'm confused because if you are talking about Stutzle, then feel free to disregard my entire post.

He cant take a hit now? Yet another complete myth from what sounds like a person whos never seen him play before. Call me shocked

Pretty sure that mostly everyone, like all the scouts, agree that hes not out crushing guys like he technically could be -but hes strong like an ox on his skates and hard to knock off the puck. He can absolutely take a hit, and he goes to both the corners and the front of the net to battle on a very regular basis.

And I mean basically every talented hockey player would normally choose to skate around someone rather than try to go right through them, even more so if they're elite skaters like Byfield is...and as if this "problem" is unique to him btw...

But besides that he is absolutely not shy about attacking the middle of the ice, this is not a perimeter player whatsoever. Hes very much like Malkin in that he regularly has guys hanging off his back while hes cutting through the middle of the ice with power, speed and soft hands.

Could he hit more? Sure, I would guess that most skilled players are technically guilty of that. But this isnt a soft big man at all. Thats not even close to an accurate description of him. His physical game is a lot like the one we see from Matthews in many ways tbh - which is not really a problem at all in actuality.

I re-read my own post and I think I (very) poorly worded it. I make it sound like he coughs up the puck every 2 secs or something if a feather brushes him.

I'm going to re-say it and pardon if it's nothing like what I originally said. I'm not going to make an excuse.

What I should say, base on what I really believe is, he doesn't play a game where he holds on to the puck and takes the hits while controlling it in a possession game. That may sound weird but he isn't a large possession center (yet) so far in his junior play like a Kopitar or a Jason Allison, and, he does look like he has the frame and strength for it. He'd rather skate with it north to south to the net ASAP, make a scoring play as soon as he can.

Hopefully that's better.

 

[Samsquanch]

I re-read my own post and I think I (very) poorly worded it. I make it sound like he coughs up the puck every 2 secs or something if a feather brushes him.

I'm going to re-say it and pardon if it's nothing like what I originally said. I'm not going to make an excuse.

What I should say, base on what I really believe is, he doesn't play a game where he holds on to the puck and takes the hits while controlling it in a possession game. That may sound weird but he isn't a large possession center (yet) so far in his junior play like a Kopitar or a Jason Allison, and, he does look like he has the frame and strength for it. He'd rather skate with it north to south to the net ASAP, make a scoring play as soon as he can.

Hopefully that's better.

Its worded better but I'm still in total disagreement with your take on him. Although I agree that Byfield and the slow, prodding Jason Allison (who was great dont get me wrong) are nothing alike as hockey players in terms of style. Didnt realize that was a strike against tbh....

And Kopitar and physical/aggressive dont really go together very well in my books either...hes much more of a cerebral thinker who plays smart positional hockey, which is what Byfield wants to be in his prime.

Maintaining control with his power and reach while fighting off players is basically text book Quinton Byfield. Hes not aggressive or trying to bring the pain, that much is true, but your saying something entirely different it feels like.

As I said above Byfield is not necessarily trying to run straight through guys, but hes also not shy whatsoever about taking contact to make a play. It's just not even close to being questionable imo, your the only person I've heard say that.

Its just crazy because like I'm literally having to try and debunk a brand new flaw in Byfields game every few days it seems like at this point. Comical cant even begin to describe it. If we added them all up in one compiled list I swear to God he would be a 3rd rounder instead of a 3rd OV pick.

This draft cant happen soon enough omg...

 

[Rorschach]

Its worded better but I'm still in total disagreement with your take on him. Although I agree that Byfield and the slow, prodding Jason Allison (who was great dont get me wrong) are nothing alike as hockey players in terms of style. Didnt realize that was a strike against tbh....

And Kopitar and physical/aggressive dont really go together very well in my books either...hes much more of a cerebral thinker who plays smart positional hockey, which is what Byfield wants to be in his prime.

Maintaining control with his power and reach while fighting off players is basically text book Quinton Byfield. Hes not aggressive or trying to bring the pain, that much is true, but your saying something entirely different it feels like.

As I said above Byfield is not necessarily trying to run straight through guys, but hes also not shy whatsoever about taking contact to make a play. It's just not even close to being questionable imo, your the only person I've heard say that.

Its just crazy because like I'm literally having to try and debunk a brand new flaw in Byfields game every few days it seems like at this point. Comical cant even begin to describe it. If we added them all up in one compiled list I swear to God he would be a 3rd rounder instead of a 3rd OV pick.

This draft cant happen soon enough omg...

I’m not knocking him...just attempting to answer the question as to if he’s physical. There’s more than one kind of physical so I was going through them and saying that he hasn’t shown that game in juniors so far. The guy is running around playing his game as the only reliable scoring option in Sudbury, scoring at a very high clip, skating north/south. It’s not a surprise he’s not playing East/west on a team like that. He’s gotta try to score as soon as he can. But, purely answering the guy’s question, he isn’t playing a game taking advantage of his frame...he’s using his skating and using his hands for scoring touch.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I like when HF posters watch a few highlight videos then claim to know a player inside and out... makes the whole backtracking thing entertaining to say the least.

 

[Just Linda]

He cant take a hit now? Yet another complete myth from what sounds like a person whos never seen him play before. Call me shocked

Pretty sure that mostly everyone, like all the scouts, agree that hes not out crushing guys like he technically could be -but hes strong like an ox on his skates and hard to knock off the puck. He can absolutely take a hit, and he goes to both the corners and the front of the net to battle on a very regular basis.

And I mean basically every talented hockey player would normally choose to skate around someone rather than try to go right through them, even more so if they're elite skaters like Byfield is...and as if this "problem" is unique to him btw...

But besides that he is absolutely not shy about attacking the middle of the ice, this is not a perimeter player whatsoever. Hes very much like Malkin in that he regularly has guys hanging off his back while hes cutting through the middle of the ice with power, speed and soft hands.

Could he hit more? Sure, I would guess that most skilled players are technically guilty of that. But this isnt a soft big man at all. Thats not even close to an accurate description of him. His physical game is a lot like the one we see from Matthews in many ways tbh - which is not really a problem at all in actuality.

I think your underlined point highlights one of the bigger differences between these two players. Stutzle isn't a net front presence, he picks his moments to get in front which are usually to try to tap a loose puck in or to get a shot from prime range. Stutzle's net front is either from the corner after the d let's off (or is beat) or after he blows by a D. I feel his cycle game is more like a winger at this point in development, goalies don't have man pressure when he's on the ice and he relies on a good shot, speed, and Del goaltending to get goals. Stutzle's game is not suited to bring an NHL centre in that particular way, he needs to work on being in front of the net more to be effective at NHL level (also, more touch less carry, he's too Barzal like that but Barzal uses it more wisely).

Byfield is built like an NHL centre. He's where he needs to be.

 

[Samsquanch]

I’m not knocking him...just attempting to answer the question as to if he’s physical. There’s more than one kind of physical so I was going through them and saying that he hasn’t shown that game in juniors so far. The guy is running around playing his game as the only reliable scoring option in Sudbury, scoring at a very high clip, skating north/south. It’s not a surprise he’s not playing East/west on a team like that. He’s gotta try to score as soon as he can. But, purely answering the guy’s question, he isn’t playing a game taking advantage of his frame...he’s using his skating and using his hands for scoring touch.

I guess I can be forgiven then because it didnt sound very accurate, and more like you were calling a few parts of his game suspect that went beyond the question.

It sounds though like your point has morphed back into this fallacy that he cant play east/west hockey, and I think your saying that hes unable to control the puck in the ozone when it gets physical (aside from when hes going north/south I guess lol).

It all just makes no sense tbh to someone who's seen his as extensively as I have. For two years now hes been phenomenal at doing exactly what you think hes not doing at all - which is use his size and strength in the offensive zone (in any of the 4 directions lmao) to draw in defenders, and then uses his elite vision and passing to set a teammate up. Even at 16yrs old he was very hard to knock off the puck, and he won CHL rookie of the year for reasons that went well beyond his points.

You have to understand that even if you somehow watched all 82pts of his last season, you still missed the vast majority of the good things he did. He makes plays from all over the ice, like any regular high end playmaker would. And his brain doesnt just turn off when he stops skating forward either.......

It just feels like people are trying so hard to fit him into the stereotype of being a one dimensional big/fast athletically gifted specimen that really only knows how to blow down the wing and shoot the puck hard - despite all of the evidence to suggest otherwise. Mostly the fact that hes an elite playmaker and clearly sees the ice very well....

 

[Rorschach]

I guess I can be forgiven then because it didnt sound very accurate, and more like you were calling a few parts of his game suspect that went beyond the question.

It sounds though like your point has morphed back into this fallacy that he cant play east/west hockey, and I think your saying that hes unable to control the puck in the ozone when it gets physical (aside from when hes going north/south I guess lol).

It all just makes no sense tbh to someone who's seen his as extensively as I have. For two years now hes been phenomenal at doing exactly what you think hes not doing at all - which is use his size and strength in the offensive zone (in any of the 4 directions lmao) to draw in defenders, and then uses his elite vision and passing to set a teammate up. Even at 16yrs old he was very hard to knock off the puck, and he won CHL rookie of the year for reasons that went well beyond his points.

You have to understand that even if you somehow watched all 82pts of his last season, you still missed the vast majority of the good things he did. He makes plays from all over the ice, like any regular high end playmaker would. And his brain doesnt just turn off when he stops skating forward either.......

It just feels like people are trying so hard to fit him into the stereotype of being a one dimensional big/fast athletically gifted specimen that really only knows how to blow down the wing and shoot the puck hard - despite all of the evidence to suggest otherwise. Mostly the fact that hes an elite playmaker and clearly sees the ice very well....

I wouldn’t know what he can or can’t play. I am saying that so far, the scouting reports I’ve read, say that it’s not his current game that they’ve seen. On another team or in another system, maybe he could.

Maybe some people are trying to do some pigeon-holing things. When it comes to on ice mechanics, I try to stay away from judging because every time I read about that sort of thing, I realize how little I’m able to judge just with my eyes.

I’m saying something like this: student A should get awarded the college scholarship because they got straight A’s and a 1500 on their SATs as a senior (do they still do SAT scores like this?). Student B was averaging straight As but didn’t finish the last semester and got a 1350 as a junior.

I can’t tell if student B is less smart or smarter than student A because comparing a junior to a senior is not a level playing field and they are so young. Next year, student B as a senior, maybe he scores 1550 on his SAT. He hasn’t had the opportunity yet and his shorter body of work has some extremely promising aspects. At the same time, as I’m not in their homes, I have no idea if one student is actually smarter than the other or if they just have good study habits. I can only go by record and by what others who were nearby have to say about each student.

But, I have to award the scholarship today so I have to choose student A. Doesn’t mean student B sucks. I look forward to see what student B does his senior year, and to see what other activities he participates in to bulk up his resume.

Anyway, on the “physical” question, I don’t have much to say about it in Stutzle’s game either. But the original post I was replying to didn’t ask about him so I didn’t compare the two. Neither guy plays like Keith Primeau. They are both guys who, so far, are skill players that are of good or better size.

Hopefully that makes sense. For me, what went from a hopeful discourse with a fellow member is feeling like a “are you telling me Jesus Christ can’t hit a curveball?” argument. The original point was just a guy asking for a quick scouting reports on one part of QBs game and me simply quoting (badly paraphrasing, I admit) what I thought I read.