Proposal: STL-EDM (including Draisaitl)

[McSuper]

Maybe so but i'm looking at the bigger picture. They might not even make the playoffs if they do they really could use some depth.

Edmonton is only a few points out of a playoff spot with 4 or 5 games in hand . They will be fine . Now winning a round or 2 is a different story unless we get a D and a goalie

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

just like how they where tonight?

I don't even know what this post means. sure, stl had a bad game and have been having issues lately. I would imagine when all is said and done, they'll be a better team by then end of the season than EDM
but this is getting away from the OP. as many have said, this trade doesn't address the needs of either team, so this proposal is moot

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Sorta feel like a Drai trade to St.L would have to begin with hometown kid Parayko and a few adds.

I mean Hart Art Lindsay winner in his prime on a sweet deal with term.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Like I've said before in this thread. Neither team does this. Fills zero of the major holes on either team. It's the equivalent of making a trade for the hell of it.

Blues would be crazy to turn this down if offered. Drai would be best forward team has had in many years and the deal would ease our coming cap crunch to boot.

 

[bucks_oil]

im not trying to downplay Draisaitl. I’m more or less confused on his vision of why Robert Thomas is a middle six spare part type of player in his mind.

My point is that I just don't see the rationale for us to trade the 2nd-5th best player in the league, who's on a sweetheart contract for this.

Where is the motivation for Edmonton?

With no disrespect,

• Binnington is a B+ starter in my view. He's been great and also inconsistent. He'd be a great add in a Draisaitl deal, but not the main value driver.
• Robert Thomas is a solid young centerman that we only need if we're trading Drai... and obviously a big downgrade, so that means the pieces we are getting back need to fill a primary need at G or LD. As above, Binnington is passable, but not motivating me to make a deal.
• Buchnevich is a solid contributor, but we'd be paying him 75% of Drai's the salary for <50% of the production. Plus... we aren't weak at wing anymore... again zero motivation here.
• Mikkola? Yeah, never heard of him and I think I can be forgiven for that. 25 years old, hasn't completed a full NHL season, projects to be a 20 point guy. What am I missing here and why is he centerpiece in a deal for Draisaitl? Noting here that he and Binnington are the only two guys that meet a positional need for us... back to motivation to do this deal? BLECH!

Also, am I the only one that noticed:

• In addition to not addressing our needs in a motivating way, we TAKE ON SALARY on this deal? $8.5M out the door, but $15.5M coming back
• Kyrou, who would be intriguing hasn't even been offered... am I to assume he's untouchable for the 2nd-5th best player in the league I guess? Nonsense.

Tell me again how this helps Edmonton? (vs just keeping Drai and trading our 1st for the best goalie we can get)

 

[ElPrimeTime]

My point is that I just don't see the rationale for us to trade the 2nd-5th best player in the league, who's on a sweetheart contract for this.

Where is the motivation for Edmonton?

With no disrespect,

• Binnington is a B+ starter in my view. He's been great and also inconsistent. He'd be a great add in a Draisaitl deal, but not the main value driver.
• Robert Thomas is a solid young centerman that we only need if we're trading Drai... and obviously a big downgrade, so that means the pieces we are getting back need to fill a primary need at G or LD. As above, Binnington is passable, but not motivating me to make a deal.
• Buchnevich is a solid contributor, but we'd be paying him 75% of Drai's the salary for <50% of the production. Plus... we aren't weak at wing anymore... again zero motivation here.
• Mikkola? Yeah, never heard of him and I think I can be forgiven for that. 25 years old, hasn't completed a full NHL season, projects to be a 20 point guy. What am I missing here and why is he centerpiece in a deal for Draisaitl? Noting here that he and Binnington are the only two guys that meet a positional need for us... back to motivation to do this deal? BLECH!

Also, am I the only one that noticed:

• In addition to not addressing our needs in a motivating way, we TAKE ON SALARY on this deal? $8.5M out the door, but $15.5M coming back
• Kyrou, who would be intriguing hasn't even been offered... am I to assume he's untouchable for the 2nd-5th best player in the league I guess? Nonsense.

Tell me again how this helps Edmonton? (vs just keeping Drai and trading our 1st for the best goalie we can get)

And that my friends, is how you mic drop and end a thread.

 

[rumrokh]

My point is that I just don't see the rationale for us to trade the 2nd-5th best player in the league, who's on a sweetheart contract for this.

Where is the motivation for Edmonton?

With no disrespect,

• Binnington is a B+ starter in my view. He's been great and also inconsistent. He'd be a great add in a Draisaitl deal, but not the main value driver.
• Robert Thomas is a solid young centerman that we only need if we're trading Drai... and obviously a big downgrade, so that means the pieces we are getting back need to fill a primary need at G or LD. As above, Binnington is passable, but not motivating me to make a deal.
• Buchnevich is a solid contributor, but we'd be paying him 75% of Drai's the salary for <50% of the production. Plus... we aren't weak at wing anymore... again zero motivation here.
• Mikkola? Yeah, never heard of him and I think I can be forgiven for that. 25 years old, hasn't completed a full NHL season, projects to be a 20 point guy. What am I missing here and why is he centerpiece in a deal for Draisaitl? Noting here that he and Binnington are the only two guys that meet a positional need for us... back to motivation to do this deal? BLECH!

Also, am I the only one that noticed:

• In addition to not addressing our needs in a motivating way, we TAKE ON SALARY on this deal? $8.5M out the door, but $15.5M coming back
• Kyrou, who would be intriguing hasn't even been offered... am I to assume he's untouchable for the 2nd-5th best player in the league I guess? Nonsense.

Tell me again how this helps Edmonton? (vs just keeping Drai and trading our 1st for the best goalie we can get)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you read back through that exchange, BleedBlue14 isn't vouching for the deal or commenting on Thomas vs. Draisaitl in the slightest. Rather, just examining the specific comments about Thomas. You can discuss the perceptions of the a player who is part of a proposal completely independent of all of this.

 

[PocketNines]

And that my friends, is how you mic drop and end a thread.

The Blues fan was correcting an assessment of one player in the proposal and the Edmonton fan goes on a long rant in direct response about how the whole deal doesn't make sense as if that is remotely relevant to the comment about Thomas and you're here like "BOOM! WE WIN!" What are you even doing.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

My point is that I just don't see the rationale for us to trade the 2nd-5th best player in the league, who's on a sweetheart contract for this.

Where is the motivation for Edmonton?

With no disrespect,

• Binnington is a B+ starter in my view. He's been great and also inconsistent. He'd be a great add in a Draisaitl deal, but not the main value driver.
• Robert Thomas is a solid young centerman that we only need if we're trading Drai... and obviously a big downgrade, so that means the pieces we are getting back need to fill a primary need at G or LD. As above, Binnington is passable, but not motivating me to make a deal.
• Buchnevich is a solid contributor, but we'd be paying him 75% of Drai's the salary for <50% of the production. Plus... we aren't weak at wing anymore... again zero motivation here.
• Mikkola? Yeah, never heard of him and I think I can be forgiven for that. 25 years old, hasn't completed a full NHL season, projects to be a 20 point guy. What am I missing here and why is he centerpiece in a deal for Draisaitl? Noting here that he and Binnington are the only two guys that meet a positional need for us... back to motivation to do this deal? BLECH!

Also, am I the only one that noticed:

• In addition to not addressing our needs in a motivating way, we TAKE ON SALARY on this deal? $8.5M out the door, but $15.5M coming back
• Kyrou, who would be intriguing hasn't even been offered... am I to assume he's untouchable for the 2nd-5th best player in the league I guess? Nonsense.

Tell me again how this helps Edmonton? (vs just keeping Drai and trading our 1st for the best goalie we can get)

I can't argue with any of that. Those are some nice pieces from the Blues, but I don't see how they add up to Drai. I'm a Blues fan and I think Oil would be crazy to make deal like this. Whatever problems Edmonton has, I don't see how trading top 5 player in the league for a group of good players- none of whom are in top 50 players in league- is the answer.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I can't argue with any of that. Those are some nice pieces from the Blues, but I don't see how they add up to Drai. I'm a Blues fan and I think Oil would be crazy to make deal like this. Whatever problems Edmonton has, I don't see how trading top 2 player in the league for a group of good players- none of whom are in top 50 players in league- is the answer.

Fixed that for you

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Fixed that for you

Funny that someone with Avs player in avatar would post that.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Funny that someone with Avs player in avatar would post that.

To be fair I like the Oilers too. But even if we go off the Hfboards top players poll from the last couple weeks the consensus for this year had Draisaitl at 2, Kucherov at 3, and then Mack/Makar at 4/5 which I don't hate but I'd have Kuch/Mack switched.

Top 25 Players in the NHL right now: #18

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Why do people keep talking about depth?

has nobody outside of Edmonton been paying attention to us?

By playoff time we could be running:

Kane-McDavid-Puljujarvi
Hyman-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Holloway-RNH-Foegele
Whoever-McLeod-Kassian

Five of those forwards are on a 55+ point pace over 82 games, not including Kane who could very reasonably be point per game the rest of the way.

Edmonton doesn't need depth, my dudes. We had some issues with covid and injuries, but we're pretty much good to go now. What we absolutely do need is goaltending, but we're not giving up Leon f***ing Draisaitl to get it.

Kane is a shit human but he's good at hockey and really helps our lineup. Trading Draisaitl for "depth" has always been nonsense and it's even more nonsense now.

 

[westc2]

As good as Drai is....I think this makes the Blues worse overall.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

To be fair I like the Oilers too. But even if we go off the Hfboards top players poll from the last couple weeks the consensus for this year had Draisaitl at 2, Kucherov at 3, and then Mack/Makar at 4/5 which I don't hate but I'd have Kuch/Mack switched.

Top 25 Players in the NHL right now: #18

Drai might be 2. I wasn't trying to slight him. Don't think there is much to separate 2-4 or so at this point.

 

[PocketNines]

My point is that I just don't see the rationale for us to trade the 2nd-5th best player in the league, who's on a sweetheart contract for this.

Where is the motivation for Edmonton?

With no disrespect,

• Binnington is a B+ starter in my view. He's been great and also inconsistent. He'd be a great add in a Draisaitl deal, but not the main value driver.
• Robert Thomas is a solid young centerman that we only need if we're trading Drai... and obviously a big downgrade, so that means the pieces we are getting back need to fill a primary need at G or LD. As above, Binnington is passable, but not motivating me to make a deal.
• Buchnevich is a solid contributor, but we'd be paying him 75% of Drai's the salary for <50% of the production. Plus... we aren't weak at wing anymore... again zero motivation here.
• Mikkola? Yeah, never heard of him and I think I can be forgiven for that. 25 years old, hasn't completed a full NHL season, projects to be a 20 point guy. What am I missing here and why is he centerpiece in a deal for Draisaitl? Noting here that he and Binnington are the only two guys that meet a positional need for us... back to motivation to do this deal? BLECH!

Also, am I the only one that noticed:

• In addition to not addressing our needs in a motivating way, we TAKE ON SALARY on this deal? $8.5M out the door, but $15.5M coming back
• Kyrou, who would be intriguing hasn't even been offered... am I to assume he's untouchable for the 2nd-5th best player in the league I guess? Nonsense.

Tell me again how this helps Edmonton? (vs just keeping Drai and trading our 1st for the best goalie we can get)

A few things.

Obviously none of what you wrote is responsive to the Thomas point the Blues fan was making. You are responding to the merits of the deal instead.

I think both that the deal wouldn't happen (Draisaitl won't be moved unless in the future he asks out in which event the price is not the fantasy return that Oiler fans would want) and that the Blues needs are not addressed, so for us it's more of a curve ball idea than one we want also. The Blues would be even more hurting at left defense after this hypothetical trade.

You questioned Kyrou not being offered. A Panthers fan made this thread. In fact the offer is more designed to meet Edmonton's perceived needs on defense and in goal than it is the Blues' perceived needs which are at #1LD.

You asked about Mikkola. He's become Parayko's partner in the top 4 this year supplanting Scandella, but he hasn't been there that many games. You're not wrong to have not heard of him just as defensive defensemen drafted in middle rounds fly under most people's radar except the fans of that team. But the people involved in any trade would have heard of him, have scouted him plenty and understand the risk/reward. Again not endorsing this deal for reasons already stated, just saying that you not knowing much about the player as a reason to reject the offer is not a serious reason, which I think you likely know.

He likely was added in the deal (by the third party fan) because while he's not yet fully established, right now is when he is starting to emerge a bit. In about the last month he's had some impressive games. Physically, he has bloodied/enraged Crosby (which turned out to be a bad idea in that game, who knew) and gotten into it with Dubois and generally establishing a reputation in the league as a nasty, physical young Finnish guy who is getting under some skin. We Blues fans see some promising things (he also likes to jump up on the attack) but he is capable of having awful games like one in Calgary recently.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Sorta feel like a Drai trade to St.L would have to begin with hometown kid Parayko and a few adds.

I mean Hart Art Lindsay winner in his prime on a sweet deal with term.

I agree.

If Edmonton has any likelihood of moving Drai, it would have to start with Parayko. But he is actually the one piece to move that would be the most damaging to Blues' season, I don't think we would entertain that unless we are ready to flush the season down the drain, as replacing an elite defensive D-man is nearly impossible mid-season.

Hypothetically, it would probably have to look something like this for Edmonton to consider:

• Colton Parayko
• Robert Thomas
• Jordan Binnington
• 1st round pick

That's just completely infeasible from the Blues point of view, so this thread is just not anywhere in the realm of reality.



Maybe we should back down to a simpler deal

• Jordan Binnington

for

• Mikko Koskinen
• 2nd round pick in 2022, with the condition on if Edmonton makes it past 1st round, it becomes a 2023 1st rounder.

This way, the Oilers gets a much higher quality goaltender (even one that hasn't lived up to his down standards this season, and has lost starting job to a goalie of the future for now), than anything they have ready in the organization right now. And the Blues would get a piece of futures, and would make room to resign Husso in the off-season.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

A few things.

Obviously none of what you wrote is responsive to the Thomas point the Blues fan was making. You are responding to the merits of the deal instead.

I think both that the deal wouldn't happen (Draisaitl won't be moved unless in the future he asks out in which event the price is not the fantasy return that Oiler fans would want) and that the Blues needs are not addressed, so for us it's more of a curve ball idea than one we want also. The Blues would be even more hurting at left defense after this hypothetical trade.

You questioned Kyrou not being offered. A Panthers fan made this thread. In fact the offer is more designed to meet Edmonton's perceived needs on defense and in goal than it is the Blues' perceived needs which are at #1LD.

You asked about Mikkola. He's become Parayko's partner in the top 4 this year supplanting Scandella, but he hasn't been there that many games. You're not wrong to have not heard of him just as defensive defensemen drafted in middle rounds fly under most people's radar except the fans of that team. But the people involved in any trade would have heard of him, have scouted him plenty and understand the risk/reward. Again not endorsing this deal for reasons already stated, just saying that you not knowing much about the player as a reason to reject the offer is not a serious reason, which I think you likely know.

He likely was added in the deal (by the third party fan) because while he's not yet fully established, right now is when he is starting to emerge a bit. In about the last month he's had some impressive games. Physically, he has bloodied/enraged Crosby (which turned out to be a bad idea in that game, who knew) and gotten into it with Dubois and generally establishing a reputation in the league as a nasty, physical young Finnish guy who is getting under some skin. We Blues fans see some promising things (he also likes to jump up on the attack) but he is capable of having awful games like one in Calgary recently.

And this was achieved by offering a 4/5 defenceman and a goalie with worse numbers this year than Mikko Koskinen, and that's signed for infinity?

I'm not saying Mikkola is nothing, but in a trade for Leon Draisaitl, he's a throw-in. Binnington I'm not convinced even has positive value at the moment, all things considered.

Binnington last three years

59-36-18, .909

Koskinen last three years

46-34-4, .908

I don't know why the bottom has fallen out of Binnington this year, but I definitely don't want to be the Ottawa Senators to Binnington's Matt Murray while giving up Draisaitl for the trouble.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I agree.

If Edmonton has any likelihood of moving Drai, it would have to start with Parayko. But he is actually the one piece to move that would be the most damaging to Blues' season, I don't think we would entertain that unless we are ready to flush the season down the drain, as replacing an elite defensive D-man is nearly impossible mid-season.

Hypothetically, it would probably have to look something like this for Edmonton to consider:

• Colton Parayko
• Robert Thomas
• Jordan Binnington
• 1st round pick

That's just completely infeasible from the Blues point of view, so this thread is just not anywhere in the realm of reality.



Maybe we should back down to a simpler deal

• Jordan Binnington

for

• Mikko Koskinen
• 2nd round pick in 2022, with the condition on if Edmonton makes it past 1st round, it becomes a 2023 1st rounder.

This way, the Oilers gets a much higher quality goaltender (even one that hasn't lived up to his down standards this season, and has lost starting job to a goalie of the future for now), than anything they have ready in the organization right now. And the Blues would get a piece of futures, and would make room to resign Husso in the off-season.

Too risky IMO. We can't in any way hitch our wagon to a guy that's put up worse numbers year over year every year of his career. That contract could break us if we're getting Koskinen quality goaltending from him. Binnington's poor play and bloated contract make me really hesitant to even consider him as an option going forward. We don't want a guy that's been pushed aside.

As for your hypothetical, it's a no from Edmonton as well. Parayko/Thomas/Binnington will easily be making 18 million dollars when Thomas gets his new contract.

Draisaitl will not be traded, unless he makes it crystal clear he won't re-sign, in which case he will go for a bunch of futures and guys on ELC's to the landing spot of his choice when he's a pending UFA. It's the only way it makes any sense from a cap perspective.

 

[MicronMega]

Drasaitl is worth O'Reilly and Buch plus a grade A prospect like Neighbors or Bolduc. This is an elite franchise C. And, I think I am undervaluing him here.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Too risky IMO. We can't in any way hitch our wagon to a guy that's put up worse numbers year over year every year of his career. That contract could break us if we're getting Koskinen quality goaltending from him. Binnington's poor play and bloated contract make me really hesitant to even consider him as an option going forward. We don't want a guy that's been pushed aside.

As for your hypothetical, it's a no from Edmonton as well. Parayko/Thomas/Binnington will easily be making 18 million dollars when Thomas gets his new contract.

Draisaitl will not be traded, unless he makes it crystal clear he won't re-sign, in which case he will go for a bunch of futures and guys on ELC's to the landing spot of his choice when he's a pending UFA. It's the only way it makes any sense from a cap perspective.

For the hypothetical, we would obviously be taking back cap dumps as part of the deal (e.g. Keith, Berry, etc), although you may have to dump additional contracts to make everything work. If we are putting that much in a deal, you would have to accept some amount of additional work to make space. That deal doesn't work for the Blues anyway, like I said, unless we are flushing the season down the drain.

As for the smaller deal, I doubt that you would be able to find any better goal-tender while willing to take Koskinen back. Binnington is playing pretty far below his historical standards right now, but he certainly is no Koskinen. And Binner tends to up his game during stretches where it really matters.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

For the hypothetical, we would obviously be taking back cap dumps as part of the deal (e.g. Keith, Berry, etc), although you may have to dump additional contracts to make everything work. If we are putting that much in a deal, you would have to accept some amount of additional work to make space. That deal doesn't work for the Blues anyway, like I said, unless we are flushing the season down the drain.

As for the smaller deal, I doubt that you would be able to find any better goal-tender while willing to take Koskinen back. Binnington is playing pretty far below his historical standards right now, but he certainly is no Koskinen. And Binner tends to up his game during stretches where it really matters.

I'm honestly not in love with the value in the deal anyway. The last couple years have not been kind to Parayko and he's getting shelled in the advanced stats. I'd be downright terrified to take what I see as two pretty significant gambles in terms of how their last two years have gone back for Draisaitl. I love Robert Thomas but if the Blues package was Thomas/Parayko/Binnington and a mid first... I wouldn't.

My biggest concern with Binnington is the year over year numbers are worse every single year, like he peaked with the Cup, got paid, and now is on a long slide to obscurity.

Five more years at 6 million with that kind of regression scares me to the point that I don't know if I want anything to do with him at all, nevermind potentially giving up an unprotected first.

 

[bucks_oil]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you read back through that exchange, BleedBlue14 isn't vouching for the deal or commenting on Thomas vs. Draisaitl in the slightest. Rather, just examining the specific comments about Thomas. You can discuss the perceptions of the a player who is part of a proposal completely independent of all of this.

Fair enough, I interpreted his comments as suggesting that his skill on the PK would be a benefit to the Oil, since he was on the 3rd ranked PK. I was tongue-in-cheek pointing out that we're 2nd in PK (which is probably a surprise to most of you)... thus no motivation.

Which, as you see from my post... is the fundamental issue with this proposal, it takes the 2nd best player on the BEST contract in the league from our team and solves no problems that need to be solved (other than, VERY arguably, our goaltending... which can be solved in other ways).

 

[bucks_oil]

I can't argue with any of that. Those are some nice pieces from the Blues, but I don't see how they add up to Drai. I'm a Blues fan and I think Oil would be crazy to make deal like this. Whatever problems Edmonton has, I don't see how trading top 5 player in the league for a group of good players- none of whom are in top 50 players in league- is the answer.

Thanks...

The problem with trading Drai is his contract. If you follow the logic that icing a champ team is some calculus involving on-ice contribution vs cap hit.... then how on earth can you trade the leagues top-5 player making $8.5M and come out ahead?

In that context the classic "single elite quality player for star-level quantity" deal never works, since those 3-4 star-level players will blow up your cap... unless they are all ELC. (and then you just kick the can down the road)

A guy like Drai would NEVER be traded by a team that thinks it will contend in the near term and that MUST be what Edmonton is aiming to do.

I mean... we could probably dream up something around Kyrou, Parayko and picks, but again... Kyrou is only required if Drai is gone (net loss in the near and mid-term) and we're still not addressing Oilers pressing need at goal. And who knows whether you guys really want to do that... or can absorb the loss of Parayko on your back end in order to upgrade Kyrou.

 

[bucks_oil]

A few things.

Obviously none of what you wrote is responsive to the Thomas point the Blues fan was making. You are responding to the merits of the deal instead.

I think both that the deal wouldn't happen (Draisaitl won't be moved unless in the future he asks out in which event the price is not the fantasy return that Oiler fans would want) and that the Blues needs are not addressed, so for us it's more of a curve ball idea than one we want also. The Blues would be even more hurting at left defense after this hypothetical trade.

You questioned Kyrou not being offered. A Panthers fan made this thread. In fact the offer is more designed to meet Edmonton's perceived needs on defense and in goal than it is the Blues' perceived needs which are at #1LD.

You asked about Mikkola. He's become Parayko's partner in the top 4 this year supplanting Scandella, but he hasn't been there that many games. You're not wrong to have not heard of him just as defensive defensemen drafted in middle rounds fly under most people's radar except the fans of that team. But the people involved in any trade would have heard of him, have scouted him plenty and understand the risk/reward. Again not endorsing this deal for reasons already stated, just saying that you not knowing much about the player as a reason to reject the offer is not a serious reason, which I think you likely know.

He likely was added in the deal (by the third party fan) because while he's not yet fully established, right now is when he is starting to emerge a bit. In about the last month he's had some impressive games. Physically, he has bloodied/enraged Crosby (which turned out to be a bad idea in that game, who knew) and gotten into it with Dubois and generally establishing a reputation in the league as a nasty, physical young Finnish guy who is getting under some skin. We Blues fans see some promising things (he also likes to jump up on the attack) but he is capable of having awful games like one in Calgary recently.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Don't disagree with any of it with the exception of:

Unless Draisaitl is asking for a trade in his final two seasons, he's bringing a kings ransom. If a star level player demands a trade, and has limited destinations, the return is constrained - I agree.

But Drai is not a star level player. He's a perennial MVP candidate in his prime on (I'd argue) the league's best $8.5M contract at least for its duration. Edmonton, being not a prime destination, suggests that his list of desirable places to go would not be that constrained, so the bidding war would be through the roof... anybody can fit him in (and as this thread confirms, would likely SHED cap in the process in trying to come up with a reasonable return) and ALL would at least make an offer.