Online Series: Star Wars: The Acolyte on Disney+

[johnjm22]

I just think it opens up storytelling possibilities and feels true to what I understand about how power works

In order to tell a story you need conflict. I suppose that's a way of introducing more of it.

For ME Star Wars is a fairytale and classic struggle between good and evil.

I actually think making the Jedi corrupt is a cheap way of creating drama/conflict.


"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire."

That sounds epic. It's romantic. I'm much more interested in the Jedi being a force for good.

 

[Osprey]

Interesting theory I read today...Sol ends up getting blamed for killing all the Jedi and gets excommunicated from the Order. Kind of similar to "The Wrong Jedi" arc in TCW with Ahsoka. Which might also help explain why the Order has their head in the sand when it comes to the Sith returning a century later.

Headland confirmed in the interview that I linked last night that the other Jedi had to die because they saw a Sith, so it seems like Sol needs to either die, as well, or be blamed for what the Sith did.

 

[Osprey]

I don’t care if the hardcore Star Wars fans get mad that a show blows because of the writing, plot, etc.

However, we would definitely be naive not to understand that the bulk of the hate for The Acolyte is due to misogyny/racism from the “nerds” in question here.

The bulk of the hate for the show is because of the writing/plot and acting. Read the IMDb reviews.

It isn't naïve to listen to what fans are saying instead of choosing to believe explanations that are easily contradicted. The same fans love Rogue One, which starred a woman and a Hispanic actor, and Andor and The Mandalorian, which both starred Hispanic actors. They also didn't hate Ahsoka, which starred two women, and the two Asian actors are among the few things that they're complimenting in this show. That doesn't sound like a fanbase that's misogynistic and racist, but one that just wants good writing and acting.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

The bulk of the hate for the show is because of the writing/plot and acting. Read the IMDb reviews.

It isn't naïve to listen to what fans are saying instead of choosing to believe explanations that are easily contradicted. The same fans love Rogue One, which starred a woman and a Hispanic actor, and Andor and The Mandalorian, which both starred Hispanic actors. They also didn't hate Ahsoka, which starred two women, and the two Asian actors are among the few things that they're complimenting in this show. That doesn't sound like a fanbase that's misogynistic and racist, but one that just wants good writing and acting.

I agree that it's a vocal minority, but you conveniently skip over it. The fanbase does have its (important) toxicity. But there's idiots everywhere. What gets on my nerves is the fans' self-given importance and quest for protecting the legitimacy of what is or is not SW coherent.

 

[johnjm22]

I think a lot of the vitriol is a culmination of the frustrations people have with Disney SW in general. It's being taken out on this show.

If Disney had made a bunch of great Star Wars shows and movies, then put out this stinker, it would get a lot of criticism from fans, but not to this degree IMO.

 

[MadDevil]

I agree that it's a vocal minority, but you conveniently skip over it. The fanbase does have its (important) toxicity. But there's idiots everywhere. What gets on my nerves is the fans' self-given importance and quest for protecting the legitimacy of what is or is not SW coherent.

The problem, as it so often is, is that both extremes are vocal and feed off each other, which often drowns out the ones in the middle that have valid criticisms. And the engagement farmers stoke the fire because they know it'll get them the clicks and attention they're after.

This show has the same issues for me that BOBF and Obi-Wan had, some cool scenes and concepts that ultimately don't connect because of bad writing/directing. But that's been an issue since the prequels. Andor was pretty much the only Star Wars series/movie in the last 25 years I'd say didn't have writing/directing issues at times. Even TCW and Rebels, which I absolutely love, aren't immune to it.

Now does that mean that those issues should be excused? Of course not. But I think the "honest criticism" turns into more than that for some people. Also, if people don't find enjoyment in something anymore, maybe it's time to take a break or go back to the things you did enjoy rather than just dogpiling on it and annoying others or taking away from their enjoyment of it. And anybody who even attempts to use some variation of the phrase "true fans" needs to just shut the f*** up. It's a big franchise between the movies, TV shows, video games, novels, comic books, etc. There are plenty of different things for fans to enjoy. Not everybody is going to consume every bit of Star Wars media and know dumb shit like the random side character in a book in the 90's that inspired their username on a hockey forum (kudos to anybody who knows where "Mad Vornskr", the inspiration for the first half of my name comes from lol).

 

[Osprey]

What gets on my nerves is the fans' self-given importance and quest for protecting the legitimacy of what is or is not SW coherent.

That's what fans do. You seem to be a fan of the Halloween franchise, but suggested that the recent trilogy was trash and were particularly disapproving of Michael Myers getting thrown around like a rag doll by a nerd. I don't see how that's different than disapproving of recent SW entries and things in them that are not SW coherent. We all have franchises that we care about and are vocal about when they don't meet our standards. It shouldn't be so hard for us to relate to one another, even if we care about different franchises.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

That's what fans do. You seem to be a fan of the Halloween franchise, but suggested that the recent trilogy was trash and were particularly disapproving of Michael Myers getting thrown around like a rag doll by a nerd. I don't see how that's different than disapproving of recent SW entries and things in them that are not SW coherent. We all have franchises that we care about and are vocal about when they don't meet our standards. It shouldn't be so hard for us to relate to one another, even if we care about different franchises.

Yeah well, I posted a comment on my viewing of the movies. I doubt I attacked anyone's true knowledge of the franchise, or flooded forums and websites, or asked for a boycott or people to be fired,... Again, your defense feels a little dishonest. But it's ok, I guess you don't perceive these lamentations the way we do. Not a big deal.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

This show has the same issues for me that BOBF and Obi-Wan had, some cool scenes and concepts that ultimately don't connect because of bad writing/directing. But that's been an issue since the prequels. Andor was pretty much the only Star Wars series/movie in the last 25 years I'd say didn't have writing/directing issues at times.

It's certainly not high-art and I don't know how much we can expect from made-for-TV children pseudo-sci-fi, so yeah it has its weakness, but it's all more enjoyable to me than the prequels. As for writing/directing, I know I'm an heretic, but I thought The Last Jedi was a pretty good flick considering the whole franchise.

 

[Osprey]

Yeah well, I posted a comment on my viewing of the movies. I doubt I attacked anyone's true knowledge of the franchise, or flooded forums and websites, or asked for a boycott or people to be fired,... Again, your defense feels a little dishonest. But it's ok, I guess you don't perceive these lamentations the way we do. Not a big deal.

You wrote something that honestly seemed to apply to a lot of fans, including me, so I pointed that out and you just clarified that you were referring to a very small percentage of fans that doesn't include me, so it's all good. There's no dishonesty, just a misunderstanding.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

You wrote something that honestly seemed to apply to a lot of fans, including me, so I pointed that out and you just clarified that you were referring to a very small percentage of fans that doesn't include me, so it's all good. There's no dishonesty, just a misunderstanding.

Oh no worry, I don't think you're dumb, and I don't think you're a bigot. I don't remember you calling for that Kennedy lady's head either. I do have a feeling that you are one of those "not my Luke" type though! I forgive you.

 

[Osprey]

Oh no worry, I don't think you're dumb, and I don't think you're a bigot. I don't remember you calling for that Kennedy lady's head either. I do have a feeling that you are one of those "not my Luke" type though! I forgive you.

I'm so relieved.

Actually, I have wanted Kennedy to be fired for a while, but see that as no different than wanting a coach or GM fired. It's normal to want a management change when you're unhappy with the results. I have a feeling that you've been guilty of that, too, but I forgive you.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The bulk of the hate for the show is because of the writing/plot and acting. Read the IMDb reviews.

It isn't naïve to listen to what fans are saying instead of choosing to believe explanations that are easily contradicted. The same fans love Rogue One, which starred a woman and a Hispanic actor, and Andor and The Mandalorian, which both starred Hispanic actors. They also didn't hate Ahsoka, which starred two women, and the two Asian actors are among the few things that they're complimenting in this show. That doesn't sound like a fanbase that's misogynistic and racist, but one that just wants good writing and acting.

Amandla Stenberg feels otherwise and I’m sure she would know better than us given the hate she’s gotten:

‘The Acolyte’ Star Reacts To Toxic Fan Attacks With A Music Video

The cast of The Acolyte does not live in a bubble, and they have been well aware about the backlash to the show from toxic fans,

www.forbes.com

I know many hardcore Star Wars fans and I’ve read enough idiotic comments to know it’s a real thing.

We could debate forever if these fans are the minority or not, but the minority can be the most vocal and hateful.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I'm so relieved.

Actually, I have wanted Kennedy to be fired for a while, but see that as no different than wanting a coach or GM fired. It's normal to want a management change when you're unhappy with the results. I have a feeling that you've been guilty of that, too, but I forgive you.

I wanted Spooky Chatman to be fired as the Indiana Fever coach because she's a creep and a terrible role model for the kids I coach. But I digress!

Again, you seem to skip over all the toxicity that built up surrounding that Kennedy lady. You've seen it, it wasn't innocent or couch coaching. Now Jiggy posted a song that I will not listen to, but that's just another example (and I'm sure you can link a death threat made to Jagr in 1992, but again, not the same thing).

 

[Osprey]

Amandla Stenberg feels otherwise and I’m sure she would know better than us given the hate she’s gotten:

‘The Acolyte’ Star Reacts To Toxic Fan Attacks With A Music Video

The cast of The Acolyte does not live in a bubble, and they have been well aware about the backlash to the show from toxic fans,

www.forbes.com

I know many hardcore Star Wars fans and I’ve read enough idiotic comments to know it’s a real thing.

We could debate forever if these fans are the minority or not, but the minority can be the most vocal and hateful.

Have you watched her video and listened to the lyrics? She made it because SW fans found an old interview in which she delighted in making white people cry. She sings about what she meant and scolds people for using her words against her. She then sings about people appropriating the term "woke" and journalists being unconcerned with the truth.

That's the extent of the "hate" that her video is about. It doesn't even specifically address SW fans or the show. It's really a reaction to people discovering her own incendiary comments from the past and criticizing her for them. She could've taken responsibility, like James Gunn did when his old tweets resurfaced, but she doubled down, instead, and attacked the people back, calling them racists and oppressors in the video.

Not all criticisms or idiotic comments are hate and not all hate is bigotry. A lot of people these days assume that it is when the subject is a minority, and that just makes things worse, IMO.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Have you watched her video and listened to the lyrics? She made it because SW fans found an old interview in which she delighted in making white people cry. She sings about what she meant and scolds people for using her own words against her. She then sings about people appropriating the term "woke" and journalists being unconcerned with the truth.

That's the extent of the "hate" that her video is about. It doesn't even specifically address SW fans or the show. It's really a reaction to people discovering her own incendiary comments from the past and criticizing her for them. She could've taken responsibility, like James Gunn did when his old tweets resurfaced, but she attacked the people back, instead, calling them racists and oppressors.

Not all criticism or idiotic comments are hate and not all hate is bigotry. A lot of people these days assume that it is when the target is a minority, and I think that that's a mistake that makes things worse. Talking about making white people cry, making videos to call them out and talking about a portion of the fanbase being bigoted just contributes to animosity and toxicity.

It still feels like you go out of your way to avoid addressing the issue. I went and read the lyrics. Looks clear to me that what she talks about is the fact that SW "fans" used that quote as if she had said that regarding The Acolyte (it was everywhere, even on these boards, but got deleted). And that news outlet let it fly as bait.

Just watch this clown. "Just said [...] her main goal was to make white people cry" (and he's talking about The Acolyte).

The quote might have been misguided, but it was said about a movie that was made to bring awareness to racism against black people.

 

[Osprey]

It still feels like you go out of your way to avoid addressing the issue. I went and read the lyrics. Looks clear to me that what she talks about is the fact that SW "fans" used that quote as if she had said that regarding The Acolyte (it was everywhere, even on these boards, but got deleted). And that news outlet let it fly as bait.

View attachment 893477

Just watch this clown. "Just said [...] her main goal was to make white people cry" (and he's talking about The Acolyte).

The quote might have been misguided, but it was said about a movie that was made to bring awareness to racism against black people.

I did address the issue, which was whether the video was a response to racism being directed at her over the show. I pointed out that she made it because she was being criticized for something that she said. The fact that some fans thought that it was a recent quote about The Acolyte doesn't change that and prove racism, only laziness. Also, I wish that you'd stop accusing me. I've gone out of my way to not accuse you.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Have you watched her video and listened to the lyrics? She made it because SW fans found an old interview in which she delighted in making white people cry. She sings about what she meant and scolds people for using her words against her. She then sings about people appropriating the term "woke" and journalists being unconcerned with the truth.

That's the extent of the "hate" that her video is about. It doesn't even specifically address SW fans or the show. It's really a reaction to people discovering her own incendiary comments from the past and criticizing her for them. She could've taken responsibility, like James Gunn did when his old tweets resurfaced, but she doubled down, instead, and attacked the people back, calling them racists and oppressors in the video.

Not all criticisms or idiotic comments are hate and not all hate is bigotry. A lot of people these days assume that it is when the subject is a minority, and that just makes things worse, IMO.

She didn’t “delight” in making white people cry.

The goal was to make white people cry because they saw black people as humans just like them.

Angry Star Wars fans of course tried to twist around her message, unsurprisingly.

These people are missing the entire point of her message and exactly what I’m trying to get across here.

Maybe we are crossing wires on the “nerds” context, but the bulk of Star Wars nerds I’ve known are white males.

I know many of them that have personally told me or comments I’ve read online, reflect they aren’t happy with “Disney woke Star Wars”.

It’s impossible to watch a show and be objective when you have that kind of mindset.

Again, I’m not dismissing people like yourself that don’t like the acting, plot, writing, what have you.

I just think it’s naive not to acknowledge there is a lot of hate coming at this show because the “nerds” find it too woke, whatever that even is.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

It still feels like you go out of your way to avoid addressing the issue. I went and read the lyrics. Looks clear to me that what she talks about is the fact that SW "fans" used that quote as if she had said that regarding The Acolyte (it was everywhere, even on these boards, but got deleted). And that news outlet let it fly as bait.

View attachment 893477

Just watch this clown. "Just said [...] her main goal was to make white people cry" (and he's talking about The Acolyte).

The quote might have been misguided, but it was said about a movie that was made to bring awareness to racism against black people.

It's funny since everytime she's interviewed she's always ranting and raving abiut how she hates white people, I wonder if her dad who has to be the whitest person on planet earth, like if the guy was anymore white he'd be clear is proud if this.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I did address the issue, which was whether the video was a response to racism being directed at her over the show. I pointed out that she made it because she was being criticized for something that she said. The fact that some fans thought that it was a recent quote about The Acolyte doesn't change that and prove racism, only laziness. Also, I wish that you'd stop accusing me. I've gone out of my way to not accuse you.

Sorry mate if you felt I was accusing you, just trying to understand your position. I think people are diverting what she said and making it bigger than it was exactly to throw her in the mud, case in point:

It's funny since everytime she's interviewed she's always ranting and raving abiut how she hates white people, I wonder if her dad who has to be the whitest person on planet earth, like if the guy was anymore white he'd be clear is proud if this.

I really don't think the point was to "prove racism", but to answer to it. Now if we're not to believe that she's the target of (lots of) racist comments, we're back to square one with our heads in the sand, denying the fanbase's toxicity.

It's not like it's anything new.

I'm not saying the song was a smart move, it's cringe at best, but the misinformation used to attack her (and the show) to build a race war needed to be addressed (probably in a better way). Anyway, Jiggy's better than me at this conversation, I'll drop it.

 

[Osprey]

She didn’t “delight” in making white people cry.

She laughed after she said that that was the goal; then, later, said, "It's been really successful. We have a lot of white people crying... which is great," with a smile on her face, before following it up with "I've never seen so many white people crying before. It was amazing," still with a smile on her face. I think that it's fair to say that she was delighted with that outcome.

If you aren't aware of what I'm talking about, here's a video that includes the interview clips, starting at 2:13, and, later, Stenberg's entire music video, if you or anyone else hasn't listened to it:

Spoiler

Maybe we are crossing wires on the “nerds” context, but the bulk of Star Wars nerds I’ve known are white males.

I know many of them that have personally told me or comments I’ve read online, reflect they aren’t happy with “Disney woke Star Wars”.

It’s impossible to watch a show and be objective when you have that kind of mindset.

Again, I’m not dismissing people like yourself that don’t like the acting, plot, writing, what have you.

I just think it’s naive not to acknowledge there is a lot of hate coming at this show because the “nerds” find it too woke, whatever that even is.

Being unhappy that Disney Star Wars or this show, specifically, is too "woke" doesn't amount to misogyny/racism. It's understandable to not be sure what the term even means, but that seems like a good reason to not assume the worst of people who use it. There are also many women and minorities who criticize "woke." The young lady in the video that I just linked to is one example.

 

[Jovavic]

She was a DEI hire, amirite?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

She laughed after she said that that was the goal; then, later, said, "It's been really successful. We have a lot of white people crying... which is great," with a smile on her face, before following it up with "I've never seen so many white people crying before. It was amazing," still with a smile on her face. I think that it's fair to say that she was delighted with that outcome.

If you aren't aware of what I'm talking about, here's a video that includes the interview clips, starting at 2:13, and, later, Stenberg's entire music video, if you or anyone else hasn't listened to it:

Spoiler

Being unhappy that Disney Star Wars or this show, specifically, is too "woke" doesn't amount to misogyny/racism. It's understandable to not be sure what the term even means, but that seems like a good reason to not assume the worst of people who use it. There are also many women and minorities who criticize "woke." The young lady in the video that I just linked to is one example.

She’s happy white people are crying because that means they see blacks as people and can relate to their humanness.

Noah and the audience laugh along with her when he makes the comment about “white people crying” as well.

It’s natural to laugh along, but if you watch the full interview she stays on point with her message, which has nothing to do with her delighting in white people’s tears.

So it’s quite unfair to suggest she has some malice behind making white people cry like so many are suggesting.

That is the point here, and the “nerds” are using it against her in a malicious way.

It’s not hard to understand her message and see that these fans are twisting what she said as some sort of confirmation about “Disney Star Wars wokeness”.

I fully understand the “code” for wokeness, I’m suggesting the people who throw it around use it to bash anything they dislike and have no tolerance for.

So I have no clue what “woke” is to them, really.

IE my brother who isn’t racist but isn’t fond of anything to do with LGBT thinks this show is “woke” while I have several friends who believe it’s “woke” because there aren’t any white people with major roles.

This thread had similar comments that “disappeared” as well as other reviews/comments I’ve seen echoing similar nonsense.

Again, if you have that mindset, you aren’t going to fairly judge a show or any type of art for that matter.

I hate country music with a passion, and even on the occasions I’ve heard decent songs, I can’t overcome my dislike for the genre enough to enjoy it.

It’s human nature.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Spoiler

I watched that (and thus finally watched/listened to the song - still cringe, but sounded a lot better than I thought it would). What an amazingly gorgeous and articulate young lady. If you looked like that, I would never ever question what you'd say. But yeah, she has a refreshing take (which is way too calm and thoughtful to echo what the reactions are to the show, but that was not the point). Her position doesn't seem to take into account the present systemic racism still in play, but that was not the subject of the video so maybe it just wasn't pertinent. I hate YouTubers, but I might watch a few things from her.

I hate country music with a passion, and even on the occasions I’ve heard decent songs, I can’t overcome my dislike for the genre enough to enjoy it.

Please give a chance to Josh T. Pearson's Last of the Country Gentlemen!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Please give a chance to Josh T. Pearson's Last of the Country Gentlemen!

I may have stumbled down the YT rabbit hole one night and came across Zach Bryan’s Headin’ South.

I only listened to it 20-30x, but was horrified to discover he was a country star and not some anonymous drunk dude singing by the fire.

YT set me up, like it was so random… cmon.