Online Series: Star Trek Strange New Worlds Season 2 (LOWER DECK CROSSOVER ALERT)

[johnjm22]

Really good episode. Una being Illyrian came out of nowhere. And damn, M'Benga reveal was not what I expected...

It came out of somewhere. It's an idea they pulled from an old ST novel written by D.C. Fontana.

CBS Trek likes to strip mine previous ST for ideas and not credit the original authors.

Not surprising considering it's being run by Alex Kurtzman who has some history with plagiarism himself.

 

[Blender]

I thought that was the weakest of the 3 episodes so far.

 

[Cloned]

I thought that was the weakest of the 3 episodes so far.

I think this is where the ~10 episode thing is really felt. If it was a conventional 20+ episode season on TV, this would’ve been perfect for a 2-parter. As it is, they tried to jam pack a lot into 50 minutes and you can feel it.

 

[Guardian17]

Not a bad episode.

I'm a little confused as to why the descendants of Khan wouldn't just change their name.

When my relatives arrived from Poland they were called "DP's" short for "Dumb Pollacks".

They shortened their last name by removing the "ski" at the end so they would fit in.

 

[Osprey]

Speaking of mining previous ST for ideas, this episode is very reminiscent of the TOS episode The Naked Time, in which the Enterprise arrives at a ravaged planet and brings aboard an infection which spreads throughout the ship, causing the crew to behave irrationally, and eventually gets cured with blood work and injections. I also have to wonder how that could happen if, according to this episode, the ship's transporters had biofilters that could filter out that sort of thing. I was reminded, as well, of The Orville episode in which first officer Kelly saves the ship and then tries to resign her post in Ed's office, but is turned down and reassured by Ed, instead.

After they determined that the virus spreads via light, Chapel had to ask "so how do we stop it?" Obviously, they let only the brightest on board the fleet's flagship. Then, Una, trying to sound intelligent, said, "What's the one thing we can control that counteracts light? Dark hates light, light hates dark. So we turn off the lights." It's an example of how hard the writers of all of these nuTrek shows try to sound smart and treat their audience as dumb, IMO. In TOS or TNG, a character would've said, "it spreads via light," and another would've immediately said, "so we turn off the lights." The characters are on the same page, the viewers are treated with respect and the writers save 13 seconds of their limited 44 minutes.

I'm a little confused as to why the descendants of Khan wouldn't just change their name.

I'm confused about how you get to be a descendent of Khan without having his superior genes and when his clan has been frozen for 200 years.

On a related note, in Space Seed, Bones estimates from his scans of Khan that he could lift two regular humans with one arm, yet this episode posits that a similarly super strong, genetically modified person could pass countless medical tests without it ever being detected.

 

[Jumptheshark]

It came out of somewhere. It's an idea they pulled from an old ST novel written by D.C. Fontana.

CBS Trek likes to strip mine previous ST for ideas and not credit the original authors.

Not surprising considering it's being run by Alex Kurtzman who has some history with plagiarism himself.

NOt everyone has read the book that many are no longer considered cannon. So I am with @Jussi on that one. Jussi and I a pretty big fan boys/girls(no idea what jussi is) and I think some foreshadowing in the first two episodes were in order for this twist

 

[Jussi]

NOt everyone has read the book that many are no longer considered cannon. So I am with @Jussi on that one. Jussi and I a pretty big fan boys/girls(no idea what jussi is) and I think some foreshadowing in the first two episodes were in order for this twist

By the way, I have read a bunch of English language Star Trek novel and books that my cousins (both big Star Wars and Star Trek fans) gave me. I still might have some of them taking space away from other things I don't need to keep. I also have the Star Trek/X-Men crossover comic.

Quoting Osprey:

Speaking of mining previous ST for ideas, this episode is very reminiscent of the TOS episode The Naked Time, in which the Enterprise arrives at a planet and picks up an infection that spreads throughout the crew, causing them to behave irrationally, and eventually gets undone thanks to blood work and giving the crew injections. You also have to wonder how that could happen if, according to this episode, the ship's transporters had biofilters that could filter out viruses.

The biofilters malfunctioned, I think because of the ion storm. They literally had a discussion on why they did with chief Engineer Hemmer. Also, pretty much every iteration of Star Trek has had a "virus aboard the ship" based episode so it's a reoccurring theme.

 

[johnjm22]

NOt everyone has read the book that many are no longer considered cannon. So I am with @Jussi on that one. Jussi and I a pretty big fan boys/girls(no idea what jussi is) and I think some foreshadowing in the first two episodes were in order for this twist

There's a lot of great ST books that could be the foundation of movies or episodes.

In Discovery, the AI Control Section 31 thing was pulled from a David Mack novel.

The issue is, they never give the authors credit when they use the material. I realize CBS/Paramount owns the rights, so legally they can do whatever they want with it, but the writer should at least be given some credit or acknowledgement.

Perhaps there's some legality as to why they can't. But they're spending 5-10M per episode from what I've heard. Surely could have figured out how to give D.C. Fontana some credit for using her work.

I think it's lame that "new" Trek is constantly strip mining previous Trek instead of coming up with something new.

 

[Osprey]

The biofilters malfunctioned, I think because of the ion storm. They literally had a discussion on why they did with chief Engineer Hemmer. Also, pretty much every iteration of Star Trek has had a "virus aboard the ship" based episode so it's a reoccurring theme.

The biofilters malfunctioning, possibly because of the ion storm, is what they theorized earlier in the episode. It turned out that the virus actually got through because of M'Benga and it was agreed by him and Una that it wouldn't happen again, so the issue was presumably fixed long before TOS.

"Virus aboard the ship" is a recurring plot, but my point was that the details were similar. TNG's episode had similar details, but it was a sequel to The Naked Time with the same virus and even by the same writer. This SNW episode has no connection to either of those episodes, but is still very similar. If you're going to do a "virus aboard the ship" episode like previous ST iterations had, you don't need to also give it a similar origin and similar effect on the crew. If you do, you're just copying the old episodes.

 

[Blender]

They were just trying to do way too much in that episode, it felt like 3 or 4 stories slapped on top of each other and none of them received adequate time to be fully explored. The virus on the ship, the storm on the planet with the storm aliens, and the genetic engineering plot probably could have all been individual episodes with proper time devoted to exploring them, instead they all happened at once.

3 episodes in and the series is definitely trying to do the right things, and it's a massive improvement from Discovery or Picard already, but still showing some cracks from the hacks involved in managing the franchise.

 

[Lshap]

A friend of mine described the show this way: "They nailed it from the first episode – it felt like Star Trek right away". After finally watching the first three episodes I agree with him. I gave some thought to what that means. What made SNW 'feel like Star Trek' while other Trek versions didn't?

I think the biggest factor was the decision to go with encapsulated episodes. Squeezing a complete story into 45 minutes forces the show to get to the point and follow an idea from beginning to the end. And that's what I've been missing in the Trek-verse – the big ideas that were the hallmark of TOS and TNG. What we've seen instead have been story arcs that paused too long for reflection, over-sculpting characters in an attempt to create depth that took years to evolve with Trek characters of the past. Unfortunately, you can't rush character development, especially with a franchise like Star Trek that was built on concept over character.

Trek has great characters, but they developed on the job, incrementally, in opposition to that week's crisis. Nobody wallowed in angst or needed a long backstory for us to know and love them. There was no need for flashbacks to explain the complex relationship between McCoy and Spock; it happened in snippets of conversation in real-time. Time was running out to save the ship, themselves, or an alien culture, and as Spock and McCoy ripped into each other we got to know them. Same with Picard in his relationships with Riker, Worf, Data, Klingons and Cardassians. We got to know who he was by watching him at work.

Of course Trek had its essential personal episodes, but they were never over-flavoured or over-long. Once the personal episode ended, you knew everyone would be back at work tackling next week's big concept. That's what I hope to see with SNW – stories that focus on ideas, decisions, and consequences, with characters who develop organically as the sum of each of them.

 

[johnjm22]

3 episodes in and the series is definitely trying to do the right things, and it's a massive improvement from Discovery or Picard already, but still showing some cracks from the hacks involved in managing the franchise.

I think that sums it up pretty well.

I feel like the show would be so much more interesting if these were all new characters. What can they really do with Spock for example? Are we going to have an episode where he learns to use emotion over logic?

I like Peck and this actress playing Uhura, but I don't for one second believe they actually
are Spock and Uhura.

I also can't stand the cutesy and quippy dialog. I wish the characters would act like professionals.

A friend of mine described the show this way: "They nailed it from the first episode – it felt like Star Trek right away". After finally watching the first three episodes I agree with him.

I see a lot of people saying this. But I predict the goodwill will start to fade as the newness of the show eventually wears off.

People get excited when something new comes out and seemingly gives them what they've been aching for.

Strange New Worlds is the Star Trek version of The Force Awakens.

 

[Blender]

I think that sums it up pretty well.

I feel like the show would be so much more interesting if these were all new characters. What can they really do with Spock for example? Are we going to have an episode where he learns to use emotion over logic?

I like Peck and this actress playing Uhura, but I don't for one second believe they actually
are Spock and Uhura.

I also can't stand the cutesy and quippy dialog. I wish the characters would act like professionals.


I see a lot of people saying this. But I predict the goodwill will start to fade as the newness of the show eventually wears off.

People get excited when something new comes out and seemingly gives them what they've been aching for.

Strange New Worlds is the Star Trek version of The Force Awakens.

I have at least liked the first 3 episodes, and it has enough potential from that to move forward with the series. Anson Mount as Pike is the best thing nuTrek has done, and he has a proven ability to carry a show as the lead actor. I also really like that not every episode solely focuses on Pike or has Pike solving all the problems, he's the captain and as all good leaders do, he manages his team to success by relying on their individual expertise and strengths. They have at least written him well where he is building his subordinates up instead of coming up with every solution himself.

 

[johnjm22]

I have at least liked the first 3 episodes, and it has enough potential from that to move forward with the series. Anson Mount as Pike is the best thing nuTrek has done, and he has a proven ability to carry a show as the lead actor. I also really like that not every episode solely focuses on Pike or has Pike solving all the problems, he's the captain and as all good leaders do, he manages his team to success by relying on their individual expertise and strengths. They have at least written him well where he is building his subordinates up instead of coming up with every solution himself.

Anson Mount is great, but like the rest of the crew, the way he's written isn't always befitting of a Starfleet officer IMO.

Brooks, Stewart, Mulgrew and Shatner are all Shakespearean trained theater actors, and it shows. I don't know if Mount has the same sort of presence, but it may just be the writing.

Pike is written as a "nice guy", and that's fine, but the previous captains I mentioned could be very strong and demanding of their crew. Even hard on them when called for. I have a hard time envisioning this Pike like that.

This may be a strange criticism, but I almost think Mount is too good looking for the role.

 

[Lshap]

I also can't stand the cutesy and quippy dialog. I wish the characters would act like professionals.

I agree with you here. In fact, the tone of the dialogue is my only complaint. I want a captain who acts professionally and is clearly in charge. He shouldn't sound like Bruce Willis in Die Hard. Kirk was a swaggering playboy, but addressed his crew in a manner that bespoke his rank. I hope the writers can lose the Marvel school of ironic quips and get back to military-appropriate language.

I see a lot of people saying this. But I predict the goodwill will start to fade as the newness of the show eventually wears off.

People get excited when something new comes out and seemingly gives them what they've been aching for.

Strange New Worlds is the Star Trek version of The Force Awakens.

It's also true that it's much easier to predict failure than success. I doubt SNW will become the next TNG, but I'll be happy if it becomes a solid addition to the canon for three/four good years.

 

[Lshap]

As far as Mount's physical appearance, if you're re-doing a character originally played by Jeffrey Hunter, you're stuck casting a very good looking guy. At least he's age-appropriate; interestingly, Mount is slightly older than Patrick Stewart was when both started their roles.

 

[Osprey]

This may be a strange criticism, but I almost think Mount is too good looking for the role.

I think that it's mostly his Gumby hair this season which looks a little too "pretty," especially for a rancher who didn't care how he looked at the very start of the season.

 

[Jussi]

I think that sums it up pretty well.

I feel like the show would be so much more interesting if these were all new characters. What can they really do with Spock for example? Are we going to have an episode where he learns to use emotion over logic?

I like Peck and this actress playing Uhura, but I don't for one second believe they actually
are Spock and Uhura.

Because Uhura had so much character development and personality in her previous on-screen appearances up until this point....

 

[johnjm22]

Because Uhura had so much character development and personality in her previous on-screen appearances up until this point....

I know what you mean, but she looks and acts nothing like the Uhura we did see even if her role was limited.

Can you imagine Nichelle Nichols yelling out "cooool!" on the bridge? The original Uhura felt like a professional doing her job most of the time.

The excuse will be that this is the younger wide-eyed version of her, but they're taking it a bit too far.

 

[Osprey]

I know what you mean, but she looks and acts nothing like the Uhura we did see even if her role was limited.

Can you imagine Nichelle Nichols yelling out "cooool!" on the bridge? The original Uhura felt like a professional doing her job most of the time.

The excuse will be that this is the younger wide-eyed version of her, but they're taking it a bit too far.

Can you also imagine Nichelle Nichols saying, "you do a lot of reminding people of deadlines, sir," immediately after Spock says, "we have less than one hour before the comet would impact Persephone III"? A lowly cadet teasing a science officer on the bridge after he reminds them that millions of people will die in less than an hour doesn't seem appropriate or in character for Uhura. If she did that and got scolded by Pike, that might be different because we could reason that it was due to being scolded that she learned to be more professional on the bridge, but, instead, Pike encouraged her by saying, "she does have a point, Spock."

 

[Jussi]

I know what you mean, but she looks and acts nothing like the Uhura we did see even if her role was limited.

Can you imagine Nichelle Nichols yelling out "cooool!" on the bridge? The original Uhura felt like a professional doing her job most of the time.

The excuse will be that this is the younger wide-eyed version of her, but they're taking it a bit too far.

She was also 5 years more experienced. This is a younger cadet Uhura.

And since it was the 60's Nichelle Nicholls would have said "groovy...". Several things in Star Trek have to be re-written due to real life catching up with the timeline.

 

[johnjm22]

I agree with you here. In fact, the tone of the dialogue is my only complaint. I want a captain who acts professionally and is clearly in charge. He shouldn't sound like Bruce Willis in Die Hard. Kirk was a swaggering playboy, but addressed his crew in a manner that bespoke his rank. I hope the writers can lose the Marvel school of ironic quips and get back to military-appropriate language.

Can you also imagine Nichelle Nichols saying, "you do a lot of reminding people of deadlines, sir," immediately after Spock says, "we have less than one hour before the comet would impact Persephone III"? A lowly cadet teasing a science officer on the bridge after he reminds them that millions of people will die in less than an hour doesn't seem appropriate or in character for Uhura. If she did that and got scolded by Pike, that might be different because we could reason that it was due to being scolded that she learned to be more professional on the bridge, but, instead, Pike encouraged her by saying, "she does have a point, Spock."

This type of stuff might be my biggest issue with it as well.

There's something juvenile about it. It's been a consistent problem with CBS Trek.

Nurse Chapel has a crush on Spock and she's trying to flirt with him before the away mission! hehe!

I think the producers/writers do this in an attempt to make Star Trek appeal to a younger demographic.

It's also true that it's much easier to predict failure than success. I doubt SNW will become the next TNG, but I'll be happy if it becomes a solid addition to the canon for three/four good years.

I wouldn't be so cynical if not for the fact that we know who's working on the show. All Kurtzman does is repurpose and repackage. Him, Goldsman, and Lumet I'm not impressed by at all. Their previous work speaks for itself and we've seen their prior ST offerings.

Just the fact that there's a Khan linked character on the show gives you insight into their mentality.

The next episode is about the Gorn, BTW.

I'd be willing to bet at some point they'll also be episodes about Tribbles and a the rest of TOS's greatest hits that haven't already been member-berried to death in Discovery.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

The traditional "Run silent, run deep" episode.

 

[Jussi]

The traditional "Run silent, run deep" episode.

Yup. A lot Wrath Of Kahn vibes. Very intense episode that still kept the Gorn hidden.

 

[Blender]

Very good episode, and much better than last week as it was much more narrowly focused.