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SSM Greyhounds 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

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HockeyPops said:
I honestly can't see a way to do this. Can anyone else? If we go all in this year (except hold onto Martin), how do we restock in time for Martin's window? There will not be many pieces to move next season. Gibson and a couple OAs yes, but beyond that? Maybe we get lucky and Clattenburg becomes a trade chip next year, but I'm not holding my breath. Everyone else on the roster is likely a part of that Martin window.

No, if we empty the cupboard this season, then the best I can see us doing asset-wise in time for the Martin era is to get back to neutral in the cupboard. Probably sacrificing our opportunity to do something significant with Martin while he's here. And in keeping Martin this deadline, we probably can't stay in the arms race this deadline either.

Do we need a big sell this deadline though? Maybe not. This offseason, our current roster looks to turn over 8 players (3 OAs, plus 5 out of 8 '04s). That includes both imports. I think we are in good shape with our current pipeline to fill those 8 spaces. We were very impressed this preseason by four of our '07s (Gillen, Solomon, Smith, Charron). Add in the top two picks from the 2024 draft, plus two imports selections and we have filled our 8 spots with lots of quality (all of which should be more than borderline OHL players).

I understand the desire to participate in a deep sell-off this deadline in preparation for the Martin era, but I really don't see the need. We have drafted pretty well the last couple of years. Standing pat this deadline allows this current group to have a chance to show what they can do, while giving our young core a chance to experience a little run. The sell-off next season (Gibson and a couple OAs) shouldn't be significant enough to cause a big tank, and as our young core takes over they should still be able to make the playoffs next year. That allows the Martin group to continue building off what they learned this year and prepares them for a big year when Martin is 18 years old.
Click to expand...

But why make the Jack Beck move if we aren't going all-in? It's the same as trading for Thompson... waste of assets! That's the kind of half in, half out crap I'm talking about in my earlier post.

SSMHoundsFan said:
Click to expand...


so i'd look at that as us having 8 splash pieces, and london having 7. 2nds and 3rds are the cost of doing business and making a splash will typically cost a high end prospect or two. either team is emptying the cupboads to go all in imo. so if they're in no position to make a splash how do you figure we are?
 
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DWI Dale said:
so i'd look at that as us having 8 splash pieces, and london having 7. 2nds and 3rds are the cost of doing business and making a splash will typically cost a high end prospect or two. either team is emptying the cupboads to go all in imo. so if they're in no position to make a splash how do you figure we are?
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London will always be in the mix when they're playing well, with what they have at their disposal I think they'll be in tough competition with other teams

DWI Dale said:
being salty is a pretty s****y reason to make decisions no?
Click to expand...
not necessarily, you don't even need to look at this example of how the human mind uses failure a motivating factor to do better
 
SSMHoundsFan said:
London will always be in the mix when they're playing well, with what they have at their disposal I think they'll be in tough competition with other teams
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London drafts well, always has impact import players, always has strong goaltending and most importantly isn't afraid to trade away top players in the midst of a good (not great) season.

2018 the knights were having a respectable 39 win season and still traded Robert Thomas. We in the Soo are very familiar with how that worked out for Hamilton, and London got Connor McMichael and 5 draft picks. Had we done something like that EVEN ONCE in the past 5 years could we have made a run by now?
 
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HockeyPops said:
Count ours again, I only see 7 for each
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5x2nds and 3x3rds is what i saw. i guess its' only 4x2s? only further illustrates the shifting goalpost here... so London is in no position to go all in (something multiple soo fans have been saying on here), but we are with similar draft capital and our top 2 prospects as "untouchable"? The math doesn't add up for me.
 
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HockeyPops said:
I honestly can't see a way to do this. Can anyone else? If we go all in this year (except hold onto Martin), how do we restock in time for Martin's window? There will not be many pieces to move next season. Gibson and a couple OAs yes, but beyond that? Maybe we get lucky and Clattenburg becomes a trade chip next year, but I'm not holding my breath. Everyone else on the roster is likely a part of that Martin window.

No, if we empty the cupboard this season, then the best I can see us doing asset-wise in time for the Martin era is to get back to neutral in the cupboard. Probably sacrificing our opportunity to do something significant with Martin while he's here. And in keeping Martin this deadline, we probably can't stay in the arms race this deadline either.

Do we need a big sell this deadline though? Maybe not. This offseason, our current roster looks to turn over 8 players (3 OAs, plus 5 out of 8 '04s). That includes both imports. I think we are in good shape with our current pipeline to fill those 8 spaces. We were very impressed this preseason by four of our '07s (Gillen, Solomon, Smith, Charron). Add in the top two picks from the 2024 draft, plus two imports selections and we have filled our 8 spots with lots of quality (all of which should be more than borderline OHL players).

I understand the desire to participate in a deep sell-off this deadline in preparation for the Martin era, but I really don't see the need. We have drafted pretty well the last couple of years. Standing pat this deadline allows this current group to have a chance to show what they can do, while giving our young core a chance to experience a little run. The sell-off next season (Gibson and a couple OAs) shouldn't be significant enough to cause a big tank, and as our young core takes over they should still be able to make the playoffs next year. That allows the Martin group to continue building off what they learned this year and prepares them for a big year when Martin is 18 years old.
Click to expand...
I think you make some really good points Pops. We very well could fill those 8 spots quite easily. But we would have to sell gibby for sure to snag a few more draft picks for when Martin and Hayes are 18. He would net us a decent amount. I don't see any other 05s that would be worth more than they would be to us.
 
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So, I do have a mea culpa to own up to; perhaps I was a little too quick to judge after the last loss as some posters here were quick to point out. I posted that we always seem to find excuses like getting goalie'd, etc.

I decided to go and look at some early stats. Particularly shots per game. I pulled the shots from the OHL website under stats -> goalies and added up total shots for each team. Divided by # games played (pulled from OHL website -> standings). Soo has faced second fewest shots/game of any team.

Team Games Shots SH/GM
SBY 10 242 24.2
SOO 11 282 25.6
KIT 11 286 26.0
SAG 8 (307-98) 26.1
GUE 9 243 27.0
NB 10 277 27.7
LDN 11 311 28.3
OTT 8 230 28.8
FLNT 9 272 30.2
SAR 10 (306) 30.6
BAR 9 281 31.2
WSR 9 281 31.2
ER 10 (337-23) 31.4
OS 10 316 31.6
OSH 10 324 32.4
NIAG 9 302 33.6
KGN 11 371 33.7
MISS 11 372 33.8
BFD 9 310 34.4
PBO 9 345 38.3

That is better than I imagined we were doing at shot suppression. If the team continues improving at boxing out and picking up players in the slot, but continues to struggle with save % and goals against, I will have to jump on the bandwagon pointing my finger at you know what position.
 
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HockeyPops said:
So, I do have a mea culpa to own up to; perhaps I was a little too quick to judge after the last loss as some posters here were quick to point out. I posted that we always seem to find excuses like getting goalie'd, etc.

I decided to go and look at some early stats. Particularly shots per game. I pulled the shots from the OHL website under stats -> goalies and added up total shots for each team. Divided by # games played (pulled from OHL website -> standings). Soo has faced second fewest shots/game of any team.

Team Games Shots SH/GM
SBY 10 242 24.2
SOO 11 282 25.6
KIT 11 286 26.0
GUE 9 243 27.0
NB 10 277 27.7
LDN 11 311 28.3
OTT 8 230 28.8
FLNT 9 272 30.2
SAR 10 306 30.6
BAR 9 281 31.2
WSR 9 281 31.2
OS 10 316 31.6
OSH 10 324 32.4
NIAG 9 302 33.6
ER 10 337 33.7
KGN 11 371 33.7
MISS 11 372 33.8
BFD 9 310 34.4
PBO 9 345 38.3
SAG 8 307 38.4

That is better than I imagined we were doing at shot suppression. If the team continues improving at boxing out and picking up players in the slot, but continues to struggle with save % and goals against, I will have to jump on the bandwagon pointing my finger at you know what position.
Click to expand...
Can't verify others, but Saginaw has only faced 213 shots.
 
Kingpin794 said:
Can't verify others, but Saginaw has only faced 213 shots.
Click to expand...
mmmm, I used all of Lalonde's shots. Good catch. I will have to split out the goalies who have been traded.

Where did you get the total shots from? Maybe there is an easier place to pull this info.
 
HockeyPops said:
I honestly can't see a way to do this. Can anyone else? If we go all in this year (except hold onto Martin), how do we restock in time for Martin's window? There will not be many pieces to move next season. Gibson and a couple OAs yes, but beyond that? Maybe we get lucky and Clattenburg becomes a trade chip next year, but I'm not holding my breath. Everyone else on the roster is likely a part of that Martin window.

No, if we empty the cupboard this season, then the best I can see us doing asset-wise in time for the Martin era is to get back to neutral in the cupboard. Probably sacrificing our opportunity to do something significant with Martin while he's here. And in keeping Martin this deadline, we probably can't stay in the arms race this deadline either.

Do we need a big sell this deadline though? Maybe not. This offseason, our current roster looks to turn over 8 players (3 OAs, plus 5 out of 8 '04s). That includes both imports. I think we are in good shape with our current pipeline to fill those 8 spaces. We were very impressed this preseason by four of our '07s (Gillen, Solomon, Smith, Charron). Add in the top two picks from the 2024 draft, plus two imports selections and we have filled our 8 spots with lots of quality (all of which should be more than borderline OHL players).

I understand the desire to participate in a deep sell-off this deadline in preparation for the Martin era, but I really don't see the need. We have drafted pretty well the last couple of years. Standing pat this deadline allows this current group to have a chance to show what they can do, while giving our young core a chance to experience a little run. The sell-off next season (Gibson and a couple OAs) shouldn't be significant enough to cause a big tank, and as our young core takes over they should still be able to make the playoffs next year. That allows the Martin group to continue building off what they learned this year and prepares them for a big year when Martin is 18 years old.
Click to expand...
If they decide to stand pat this season you are still at neutral though as well. If the goal is to build around Martin and co then why not augment the group with another elite player and load up on picks for a true run. Yes they will have players capable of moving into open roster spots moving forward, but I would take another top end player all day long to bump one of those guys out. Look at Mississauga and the deals they made last year. There is a big difference between having players ready to move into the league and being able to bring in another impact player to build around.

I don't even know if it has to be a big sell. If they moved BMB that would set them up pretty well moving forward without making another move this year. Do I think they will do that though, no. Especially after adding Beck to start the season. The last few championship teams have not been afraid to push their pieces in the middle and go for it. To do that you need a full war chest of picks. Hard to do with just an average amount unless you get creative.

I understand what you are saying and agree that playoff experience is an important contributor to future success. This team just reminds me of ones we have seen recently that are pretty good but probably not good enough to win it all. It's hard to get anywhere when you stay in the middle. Trade off a player or two and you still probably make the playoffs anyway.
 
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scotty171 said:
This team just reminds me of ones we have seen recently that are pretty good but probably not good enough to win it all. It's hard to get anywhere when you stay in the middle. Trade off a player or two and you still probably make the playoffs anyway.
Click to expand...

It's starting to feel like that "groundhog day" movie. good not great. questionable goaltending. more holes to fill than we have picks for.

we have a good team this year. we will make the playoffs. we could probably win a round. but i can't shake the feeling we've seen this movie before.
 
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DWI Dale said:
It's starting to feel like that "groundhog day" movie. good not great. more holes to fill than we have picks for.
Click to expand...
in 2017-2018 we had more picks and moveable assets than we currently do, and still weren't good enough to get it done even with our big deadline additions. That team didn't lose it's 6th game until Jan 4.

This team is already sitting at 4 losses.
 
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HockeyPops said:
in 2017-2018 we had more picks and moveable assets than we currently do, and still weren't good enough to get it done even with our big deadline additions. That team didn't lose it's 6th game until Jan 4.

This team is already sitting at 4 losses.
Click to expand...
for sure. there was no doubt we were a contender that year.

this year feels like a team that COULD HAVE BEEN... a few smart trades in 2021-2022 (ie. kerins, o'rourke) and don't waste picks on Jack Thompson and we'd have 2 more roster players and a boatload of picks.

and 2021 felt like a team that could have been if we had made a few moves in 2019 (frost, hayton).

bold moves that get you over the hump (and like you said, sometimes it still isn't enough)!

if these observations make me "less of a fan" then so be it.
 
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DWI Dale said:
It's starting to feel like that "groundhog day" movie. good not great. questionable goaltending. more holes to fill than we have picks for.

we have a good team this year. we will make the playoffs. we could probably win a round. but i can't shake the feeling we've seen this movie before.
Click to expand...
Yep. Seems to be the way they want to operate. Have a decent team every year maybe add a player or two, rinse, repeat. Maybe get lucky one year with back to back good draft classes.
 
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